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  1. #136
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    Manning has 5 turnovers in the last 3 game. That's a problem.

    Hillman does nothing but choke in key situations.

    Somethings got to change.

    Instead of leaving Hillman on the bench i'd cut him and promote CJ. And that's the truth. If not Hillman cut Jammer because he's been active one game. Last week we had Jammer and Carter inactive that seems like a waste of valuable roster spots.

    it's likely we'll see Carter this week unless his ineptitude against the cowboys was taken so seriously that we end up cutting him. But having 2 CB's inactive is a joke if one is constantly on it.

    2013 Adopted Bronco - Duke Ihenacho

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Amigo View Post
    C'mon, you gotta be kidding me....

    1) Manning has five turnovers....that is true, BUT he has touched the ball about 497 times so far this season, or 1 turnover every about 100 touches.....which at our current pace is about 1x every 1.5 games. Hillman coughs it up every 20 touches....using your logic if he touched the ball as much as Manning, he would fumble the ball 3.5 times per game....so basically Hillman is fumbling 5x more than Manning is per touch....

    2) I am personally not happy with Holliday either, but he gets more slack both from me and ppl in general because he brings a spark that can't even be compared to what hillman brings to the table.

    3) I don't blame Hillman necessarily for the loss, I just originally stated that I am officially done with him...meaning I as of this point do not believe he can cut it and think he should not be a part of this team.

    It's not in any way shape or form fair to compare Manning and Hillman....if you think that Manning doesn't stack up to other QB's in the turnover category, go ahead and prove it....i'll wait right here

    Again, Hillman IS NOT WORTH the risk, leave him on the bench.....
    Your response was far....more polite than mine was going to be so thank you for putting this together. I agree with everything except for the comments about benching or cutting Hillman. I think the Broncos have severely under-utilized Hillman. Wait and here me out. In college you can get away with a few things. Hillman was able to beat people with speed and make them miss. In the NFL people are simply better at tackling and are larger. Hillman's tactics and strengths in college do not directly translate to the NFL...time to adapt. Now its time to look at our coaching staff. We have seen enough tape of Hillman to know that he cannot run well between the numbers in the NFL. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just means we need to stop using him in those situations. The coaching staff needs to correct, please read add, offensive plays which allow for Hillman to rush around the edges or have blocking schemes which allow for him to get into the secondary. Again look at how well Hillman did in the pre-season. He had blocking and as soon as he got into the secondary he got great YPC.

    These types of runs will put him in gentler situations when it comes to ball protection and truly utilize his skill-sets which are unique to him. If those types of corrections still don't allow for him to hold onto the ball then, and only then, will I concede and agree with your last statement.

    I do want to tie this all back into the thread and topic. Ball is my real concern. I think we need to flag Ball inactive for the Redskins game and bring in C.J to act as a #2 back to compliment Moreno. This is by no way a knock on K.Moreno (stellar season thus far). He just needs help from another back who can gain yards and not drop the ball.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeNbake View Post
    Manning has 5 turnovers in the last 3 game. That's a problem.

    Hillman does nothing but choke in key situations.

    Somethings got to change.

    Instead of leaving Hillman on the bench i'd cut him and promote CJ. And that's the truth. If not Hillman cut Jammer because he's been active one game. Last week we had Jammer and Carter inactive that seems like a waste of valuable roster spots.

    it's likely we'll see Carter this week unless his ineptitude against the cowboys was taken so seriously that we end up cutting him. But having 2 CB's inactive is a joke if one is constantly on it.
    I agree with this. If Carter continues to get the nod ahead of Jammer then we need to cut Jammer and potentially look at O-Line depth to fill that spot instead.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    Your response was far....more polite than mine was going to be so thank you for putting this together. I agree with everything except for the comments about benching or cutting Hillman. I think the Broncos have severely under-utilized Hillman. Wait and here me out. In college you can get away with a few things. Hillman was able to beat people with speed and make them miss. In the NFL people are simply better at tackling and are larger. Hillman's tactics and strengths in college do not directly translate to the NFL...time to adapt. Now its time to look at our coaching staff. We have seen enough tape of Hillman to know that he cannot run well between the numbers in the NFL. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just means we need to stop using him in those situations. The coaching staff needs to correct, please read add, offensive plays which allow for Hillman to rush around the edges or have blocking schemes which allow for him to get into the secondary. Again look at how well Hillman did in the pre-season. He had blocking and as soon as he got into the secondary he got great YPC.

    These types of runs will put him in gentler situations when it comes to ball protection and truly utilize his skill-sets which are unique to him. If those types of corrections still don't allow for him to hold onto the ball then, and only then, will I concede and agree with your last statement.

    I do want to tie this all back into the thread and topic. Ball is my real concern. I think we need to flag Ball inactive for the Redskins game and bring in C.J to act as a #2 back to compliment Moreno. This is by no way a knock on K.Moreno (stellar season thus far). He just needs help from another back who can gain yards and not drop the ball.
    Maybe cutting him is a bit rash, but he needs to be properly motivated (ala the Knowshon treatment) to keep his hands on the ball. Knowshon was basically inacative for several games last year because he wasn't holding on to the ball. I think Hillman needs the same. But I do agree with one thing you said....put CJ in there as #2, see what he can do....but I would have Hillman inactive rather than Ball.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by flosstein View Post
    Yes, its time. But the issue is the draft picks involved with both of them. To deactivate one from the game day roster, would be like admitting wrong. And there are way to many egos that an admittance of wrong would hurt. But in the event that he does get some live action, he needs to be like Knowson and take the job. Make it hard for Studd, Fox, Gase, Manning, and Elway to not keep him active on Sunday's.


    This right here, this is the thing that is keeping C.J back.. It's what kept Nacho out last year too, because he was a lot better then what we had.

    These big wigs don't want to admit that a lower pick or even a free agent is a better player then the guy the drafted 3 rounds or earlier. Forgot all that crap about the best man will play, or "he gives us the best chance to win" crap that Fox spews. Because if that was the case we would not have had to see Joe Mays freaking fail at MLB earlier last year or Omar Bolden try to cover people in games this season.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbroncs View Post
    well that isnt exactly fair. All those backs have had a ton of carries. Hillman is not the feature back.
    Which is why I said "how productive they are by comparison," and, "WHEN those fumbles occur."

    His fewer number of carries means he's not as productive as guys with more carries; but not being a feature back means he's also not as accustomed to having lots of big giant dudes ripping at the ball all the time. That could also be used as an argument for why he shouldn't have been in during that situation, but he did have a few nice runs in the 4th quarter before that play.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Amigo View Post
    Maybe cutting him is a bit rash, but he needs to be properly motivated (ala the Knowshon treatment) to keep his hands on the ball. Knowshon was basically inacative for several games last year because he wasn't holding on to the ball. I think Hillman needs the same. But I do agree with one thing you said....put CJ in there as #2, see what he can do....but I would have Hillman inactive rather than Ball.
    I did not say simply just cut him. I said scheme for him and if he cannot be schemed for and still drops the ball then we should be looking elsewhere. right now Hillman has the feeling to me like they are trying to force a square peg into a round hole. I like him as a back and as a person. He has great potential but running a smaller runner up the gut is risky to begin with.

    The reason why I sad throw Hillman in the mix as a third option is that he adds greater versatility than Ball does at this stage of his career. Ball & Anderson can be and in many ways are very similar runners. Since Ball has shown fumbling issues like Hillman has and Anderson - IMO should be given a shot it made sense to me.

    I am open to responses to convince me otherwise.

  8. #143
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    Bottom Line to me is this.....Truth be told how many rushing yards does KM really have and just know we are going on Week. 8??

    What is his YPC? Bottom line is we really need a running game and Since Hillman Fumbles Bell can not block yet and Fumbles and KM is still very very inconsistent that leaves our Mystery Back CJ who is no real mystery to us Fans who saw him BEAST it yes Against the 49ers Defense so yes it is CJ TIME

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doogansquest View Post
    Which is why I said "how productive they are by comparison," and, "WHEN those fumbles occur."

    His fewer number of carries means he's not as productive as guys with more carries; but not being a feature back means he's also not as accustomed to having lots of big giant dudes ripping at the ball all the time. That could also be used as an argument for why he shouldn't have been in during that situation, but he did have a few nice runs in the 4th quarter before that play.
    he had one nice run that went for 14 yards.

  10. #145
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    I would give Hillman the "Moreno-treatment". Send him to the doghouse for a couple of weeks, give the chance to a guy that is eager to get the rock in CJ, and if he does well, until it's completely necessary (injury, suspension) keep Hillman out of the game.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    Moreno is a little more trust worthy, but you rarely see him break a tackle, get a arm on him he goes down
    Yeah, that's just blatantly false.

  12. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Yeah, that's just blatantly false.
    Very false. It bugged me so much I had to see how well he actually was doing with YAC.. Found this on MHR that was posted after the JAX game:

    Oh and something to note, this season Moreno is average 2.6 yards after contact which means that about half of his total yards come after he is hit
    Again...

    Half of his total yards come after he is hit.

    Source: http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/1...-35-jaguars-19

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOMBIEFIED View Post
    Bottom Line to me is this.....Truth be told how many rushing yards does KM really have and just know we are going on Week. 8??

    What is his YPC? Bottom line is we really need a running game and Since Hillman Fumbles Bell can not block yet and Fumbles and KM is still very very inconsistent that leaves our Mystery Back CJ who is no real mystery to us Fans who saw him BEAST it yes Against the 49ers Defense so yes it is CJ TIME
    4.3 yards per rushing attempt; 413 yards rushing; 8 TDs. 23 receptions on 30 targets for 198 yards averaging 8.6 yards per catch.

    CJ had a good second half in the first preseason game against the Niners against second and third team peers. He is a mystery because he was injured and hasn't played in a game since then.

    The Broncos are young, but deep at RB. Two are rookies and one is second year. Three will be active on game day.

    CJ will be active at some point based on how he performs in full contact practice and how he shows his command of the no huddle O in meetings. In his one game performance, he was a strong North-South runners between the Tackles against an odd front D. His receiving and blocking skills must be par before he is given a lot of game day carries.

    The rushing attack will improve when Franklin returns giving Denver powerful down blocking from the right side. That sets up Off Tackle as well as Trap/Lead inside.
    Last edited by samparnell; 10-23-2013 at 09:48 AM.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  14. #149
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    I agree to the fact that the management at the Denver Broncos has a hard time admitting when they are wrong about draft picks. They are willing to give every opportunity to the drafted picks, especially higher draft picks, before UDFA's get their chance. With that said, we are in a win NOW mode, If not now, when? What else does our back up RB's need to do, Or more importantly, Not do in order for CJ to get his chance. CJ made our 53 man roster for a reason. Deactivate Hilman for a couple of weeks and lets see what he can do. He is healthy and deserves a chance.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOMBIEFIED View Post
    Bottom Line to me is this.....Truth be told how many rushing yards does KM really have and just know we are going on Week. 8??

    What is his YPC? Bottom line is we really need a running game and Since Hillman Fumbles Bell can not block yet and Fumbles and KM is still very very inconsistent that leaves our Mystery Back CJ who is no real mystery to us Fans who saw him BEAST it yes Against the 49ers Defense so yes it is CJ TIME
    Against 2nd and 3rd stringers and an odd front. Hardly an accurate gauge. The coaches see way more of him than we do in one half of a pre-season game.

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