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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM19 View Post
    There are two kinds of fans who believe Brady is a better quarterback than Manning: Pats fans, and superstitious idiots who believe in "clutch" players and various other forms of magic.

    There is some overlap.
    If you don't see that certain players respond differently to high pressure, high intensity situations, then I really don't know what to tell you. There's nothing "magical" about it.

    There aren't players who crumble under the spotlight? (Orton) Players who play their best when the heat is on? (Michael Jordan) Alright... To each their own...

    I'd call you a "superstitious idiot", but that would just be rude and ignorant. I'm gonna have to step away from the computer for a moment to thing of a more appropriate insult.

    Edit: and to one_bad_55: If you get me started on reffing/"influenced" games I'll go into a ranting conspiracy tailspin that I won't recover from. I'll just point to the Steelers-Seahawks superbowl, and that entire post season as the lowest point in reffing history. It was truly a farce. I didn't see it with the Broncos-Ravens game specifically, but it's no coincidence when these retiring "stars" teams suddenly heat up and go to the superbowl to win it all. Bettis was the "star" they were trying to help on that particular year. They were trying to help Manning and the Colts win it that year, but when they choked in the last minutes, the league had to regroup, and the Steelers/Bettis suddenly became their "big story" for the season. Ugh. Just thinking about that year of football makes me ill...
    Last edited by Awesomo 2000; 01-02-2014 at 11:06 PM.
    This post may or may not have been written while under the influence of alcohol, and I disclaim all responsibility for its contents, herein...

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM19 View Post
    That's fine. If I don't see that certain players respond differently to high pressure, high intensity situations, then it's probably because no analysis has ever demonstrated that this effect exists in football.

    If you want to show me that Brady's more "clutch" than Manning, go ahead and prove it. But prove it rigorously, because I won't accept anything less.
    In the playoffs, the biggest stage, Brady has a lot more 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives. Check out pro football reference if you can't take my word for it.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM19 View Post
    That's fine. If I don't see that certain players respond differently to high pressure, high intensity situations, then it's probably because no analysis has ever demonstrated that this effect exists in football.

    If you want to show me that Brady's more "clutch" than Manning, go ahead and prove it. But prove it rigorously, because I won't accept anything less.
    So... you get to simply call people "superstitious idiots" who believe in "magic", but anybody who has the audacity to disagree with you is required to prove his position through rigorous and thorough research?

    Sure thing, dude. I'll get right on that.

    Or I could just throw insults at you... then we'd be on even footing...

    You're a... poopy head.

    There. Now we're on the same intellectual level.

    Do I win?
    This post may or may not have been written while under the influence of alcohol, and I disclaim all responsibility for its contents, herein...

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgpatsfan View Post
    In the playoffs, the biggest stage, Brady has a lot more 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives. Check out pro football reference if you can't take my word for it.
    How many of these after 06?

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERoyal248 View Post
    How many of these after 06?
    Neither Brady or Manning have one since 06. Peyton's only playoff game winning drive and comeback came in 06

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgpatsfan View Post
    Neither Brady or Manning have one since 06. Peyton's only playoff game winning drive and comeback came in 06


    You obviously did not read the posts that show has come up big for the colts multiple times only to be let down by his d or his kicker. Its hard to have playoff winning drives if you put your team in position to win only to have a kicker miss. Or the defense to give up points in the least minute after you just put up points to take the lead.

  7. #97
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    Statistically speaking, there is no such thing as "clutch". It is not a repeatable skill for an athlete to be able to improve their performance under the very specific circumstances of the game being close, and late in the game.

    Also, the media and sports fan's obsession with "clutch" is completely ridiculous anyway, even if it did exist. Basically you're saying that points/stats/etc count more during that time, when they obviously don't. How did such a good player let the game be so close at the end, potentially costing his team a victory? Shouldn't he have played better throughout the whole game?
    thanks Freyaka

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by snewguy View Post
    *** up to this year, Steve Young had the highest career passer rating... while I am a Manning fan, i do know Brady's career Int/attempt is not just a bit better, its a whole lot better than Manning and Brees.... on overall career games, I'd say Manning, but in the clutch, 1-2 games with money on the line, all things being equal, I have to give Brady the nod...

    Manning may have been cursed with bad luck in games, but thats sport. Tiger Woods couldn't make some of his famous putts if you gave him 20 tries again and a legend was made. Where would Greg Norman stand if he had some 'luck' in his career? .. btw, when we lost to the Pats, I would bet Fox would not have given Brady the ball first in OT... nor has a Brady offense squandered a 24 pt halftime lead without scoring for 28 minutes... most of the time Peyton is the better QB, but sometimes....

    ............


    Only time manning has ever been beaten when up by 21. Maybe a Brady offense wouldnt quander that like of lead, but they surely were on the losing end of the largest comeback in AFCCG history...to Manning.

    Mannings career int percentage is 2.6. Bradys is 2.0. Not a large difference Iyam, especially when you consider Manning started from day 1 as a rookie on a bad team while Brady sat and learned behind a seasoned vet on a potential playoff team.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgpatsfan View Post
    Neither Brady or Manning have one since 06. Peyton's only playoff game winning drive and comeback came in 06


    i thought it was made clear, we all should wait until they both retire to talk about this debate, how can something be debated when both are still playing,

    by the way, this dude keeps talking signed up in november, are you still living off your teams win in november?

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_bad_55 View Post
    Heck watching Elway in his early years wasn't exactly a cake walk either. Thank goodness that he worked that all out. Want to know who was painful to watch was Morton and his wobbly knees and his wobbly passes. He did make it work some how, most of the time. You think Manning throws a wobbly pass, you should have seen Morton, OMG.
    Craig Morton used to run Speed-O in Red Miller's offense.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomo 2000 View Post
    The endless debate can be pretty fun, too. They're both great quarterbacks who will always be in the discussion for "bestests".

    The debate gets tired and tedious real fast though when people start bending over backwards trying to find obscure stats or excuses for why "so-and-so's" wins were less winny than "so-and-so's".

    When people start saying that field goals don't count, or that "this guy" had the 7th ranked defense while the "other guy's" defense was only ranked 11th, or that X interception didn't really count because Y receiver ran the "wrong"(?!) route... then it just gets tiresome.

    There's too much idolizing and apologetics on both sides of the fence. We (most Broncos fans) just happen to live in Manningville, where people like me, who don't like him much, are a tiny little minority. I try not to be too debbie downer about it, but every once in awhile I have to log on and type some anti-Manning drivel, just to keep it honest

    Watching the boards turn into a Manning cheer/hit squad, and the nonstop whining about referees' conspiracy to keep Peyton down makes me slightly noxious. Since when has Manning not been the nfl's golden child/goose?

    It's also pretty hard to take the ref conspiracy stuff seriously while I'm watching our receivers literally tackle defensive backs on their way to touchdowns. Yep. Refs are really out to get us...
    And that's why u are Awesomo, lol!!! Great post!

  12. #102
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    I know a lot of Cheatriot fans were saying that even though Manning threw 55TDs this year, that Brady's 50TDs somehow counted more since Brady threw more long bombs and Manning only did small yardage TDS. The stats say otherwise.

    Tom Brady 2007 - 50 TDS
    Brady TDs from 1-5 yards = 16
    Brady TDs from 6-19 yards = 18
    Brady TDs from 20-39 yards = 7
    Brady TDs from 40+ yards = 9

    Peyton Manning 2013 - 55 TDS

    PM TDs from 1-5 yards = 19
    PM TDs from 6-19 yards = 18
    PM TDs from 20-39 yards = 14
    PM TDs from 40+ yards = 4

  13. #103
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    2003 Tom Brady > 2007 - Current Tom Brady

    You know if you go by rings and what not

  14. #104
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    To me, it's like comparing Bar Refaeli and Kate Upton. Sure, you might favor one over the other, but if you've got either one, you count yourself lucky.

    Patriots fans will always pick Brady and Broncos fans will always pick Manning -- and that's the way it should be.

  15. #105
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    Both are great QB's, but I'll take the QB that gets it done in the playoffs.

    Brady has played in 7 AFCCG's in 11 completed seasons as a starter with 5 Super Bowl appearances, one win away from playing in his 8th in 12 seasons. How does anyone not take that?

    To touch on a few things that have been brought up here:

    - Two last second FG's to win SB's against the Rams and the Panthers that is all that was needed to win, you play to the situation. Also, against the Panthers Brady led his team to 32 points throwing 3 TD's and it would not have come down to a final FG if Vinatieri didn't miss two previous FG's (1 of 3) on the day. For some reason most folks forget that.

    - Manning won a Division round playoff game against the Ravens without leading his team to a TD, and relied on Vinatieri to kick 5 FG's while his defense held the Ravens to 12 points. Without those FG's, Manning doesn't have a SB ring. So I'm not sure why anyone would bring up the Vinatieri FG's for Brady and completely ignore his FG's in the Ravens game in 2006.

    - Brady led his team down the field and scored a TD in 2007 to take the lead with just over 2 and half minutes left. Again playing to the situation

    - When Manning needed to bring his team down the field in a Super Bowl with a chance to tie it at the end of the 4th quarter, he threw a pick six to secure the victory for New Orleans.

    - playoff records
    Brady: 17-7
    Manning: 9-11

    Again both are great, but one has excelled more often than not in big moments in both college and the pros and the other has not.

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