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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
    To be fair to McDonald, we still don't know if he actually did that. However, I generally agree with you on this. I kind of shake my head when fans talk about not wanting the distraction, because contending teams aren't likely to get distracted from winning by things like that.

    I believe Donte Stallworth said something to the tone of 'if that type of thing hinders you your team is already a loser'. Distractions are all around, as is the media. Contending teams learn to deal with it.

    Look at the Patriots in 2013 for instance, they dealt with a media circus surrounding the Hernandez trial and him being accused of murder, and in a year where they lost starters to injury or them going to other teams. And yet, they still go 12-4. They were willing to invite the Tebow media circus to NE, even though he was unlikely to be the starter.

    Then you had the Eagles of 2013 as well, with a video of Riley Cooper saying the 'N' word, and he has a career year, the Eagles go 10-6 and make the playoffs.

    Pittsburgh in 2010 as another example, they had a starting QB accused of rape missing 4 games. They go 12-4, make the Super Bowl.

    The actions or alleged actions of those players aren't things I would condone, but the main point is that teams have dealt with things that I would think are WAY more of a distraction than Michael Sam would be and had good seasons, perhaps even IMPROVED from the year before. Thus, the 'we don't want the distraction' excuse IMO is a bit lame.

    I do believe he is good enough to at least be a practice squad player, and should be with a team. He could at least be a pass rush specialist. What gets under my skin are the people who say he only got drafted because people feared discrimination, saying what IMO are completely asinine things acting as if teams never draft guys to be pass rush specialists or who are undersized, or who have bad pro days. Plenty of guys like that succeed in the NFL, as do many drafted in low rounds.

    It was ridiculous for people to say he shouldn't have even been drafted at all, I mean come on, really? Many guys get drafted who never even make the practice squad, let alone active roster or who become starters.
    But the distractions you are referring to are nowhere near on the epic scale level of what kind of distraction Michael Sam can be.

    Aldon Smith, Hernandez and Cooper are things we have come to expect out of professional athletes. It's a shame but no one is really surprised anymore when someone does what they did.

    But when you have someone like a Tebow or a Michael Sam it's a completely different type of story. Way more people get involved.

    Only big football fans get involved and care about the stories around Hernandez and Smith. But millions of people who are casual football fans or don't even like football suddenly become interested and involved to see if Michael Sam can successfully be an openly gay player in the NFL.

    You have way more coverage and opinions hinging on every single move. The teams suddenly can't make a single move regarding the player without someone criticizing and jumping to conclusions about what they did.
    With Hernandez there was no one judging the Patriots and saying they handled the situation poorly when they released him. It was just a story going on involving a Patriot.

    It's a lose lose situation when trying to deal with handling Michael Sam. Because people automatically assume that if he isn't getting playing time then the team must be prejudice. That's why teams don't want to deal with that so called circus.

    Yes winners cope with controversy all the time. But handling Michael Sam is dealing with a much larger scale.

    That being said I just think the guy isn't as good as people think. I keep hearing people reference the league lead in sacks in the SEC. So he must be good. It would be far from the first time someone dominated a league and wasn't cut out for the NFL. Tim Tebow ring a bell?

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    But the distractions you are referring to are nowhere near on the epic scale level of what kind of distraction Michael Sam can be.

    Aldon Smith, Hernandez and Cooper are things we have come to expect out of professional athletes. It's a shame but no one is really surprised anymore when someone does what they did.
    Pretty anyone would be surprised about someone yelling I have a bomb at an airport in the US. Our comments about Aldon Smith isn't about his drug problem, it's about the bomb threat, which isn't someone we have come to expect from athletes. Even with Cooper, we don't expect pro athletes...esp from a pro-dominantly black sport to say the N in the aggressive manner in which he did.

    To me both of those are a bigger deal than a gay player. If I'm in the locker room I have a bigger problem with the guy who aggressively said the N word than a gay player.

    The distraction with Sam isn't as big as people make it out to be. It has died out ever since the Rams cut him, people have forgotten about him, similar to people forgetting about Jason Collins.

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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post
    Pretty anyone would be surprised about someone yelling I have a bomb at an airport in the US. Our comments about Aldon Smith isn't about his drug problem, it's about the bomb threat, which isn't someone we have come to expect from athletes. Even with Cooper, we don't expect pro athletes...esp from a pro-dominantly black sport to say the N in the aggressive manner in which he did.

    To me both of those are a bigger deal than a gay player. If I'm in the locker room I have a bigger problem with the guy who aggressively said the N word than a gay player.

    The distraction with Sam isn't as big as people make it out to be. It has died out ever since the Rams cut him, people have forgotten about him, similar to people forgetting about Jason Collins.
    I wasn't trying to play it off like they weren't a big deal. I just don't think they are a bigger deal. If Aldon Smith had no prior incidents to the airport bomb threat then I might be surprised. But honestly when I heard it I just laughed.

    The Cooper thing doesn't surprise me at all either. Especially considering what just went down last year with the Richie Incognito thing. It's extremely inappropriate. But doesn't surprise me.

    I just think with the whole gay rights movement that Michael Sam trying to make a roster is a bigger deal. But you are right it's not as big of a story now as it was 3 months ago. So maybe I'm wrong. But I think initially teams were expecting it to be like that. And I do guess I agree with the sentiment that since Dallas is winning and no longer needs him for PR that they can dump him and no one even cares.

    But I also agree with the previous posters suggestion that it's telling that he can't make a roster for a team that can't generate a pass rush anywhere. I don't think teams are prejudice. I think he just isn't good.

  4. #49
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    My point is it isn't a big deal, nobody is even really talking about Sam anymore. There isn't big media coverage of him being cut. Nobody cares anymore.

    And even if they did it wouldn't generate a big enough distraction to effect a team. Which probably still wouldn't matter since most teams can deal with media distractions perfectly fine. Ravens had to deal with the Rice situation, but are in first place in their division.That distraction seemingly had no effect.

    As someone mentioned before with the Patriots and Eagles, then the Dolphins. All of which seemingly where fine regardless. Only NFL to show weakness when it comes to distractions is the Seahawks, which isn't a media distraction, but a locker room issue.

    Fans like to make it seem like media distractions are a big deal, when they really aren't....unless Pete Carroll is your coach.

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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    But the distractions you are referring to are nowhere near on the epic scale level of what kind of distraction Michael Sam can be.

    Aldon Smith, Hernandez and Cooper are things we have come to expect out of professional athletes. It's a shame but no one is really surprised anymore when someone does what they did.

    But when you have someone like a Tebow or a Michael Sam it's a completely different type of story. Way more people get involved.

    Only big football fans get involved and care about the stories around Hernandez and Smith. But millions of people who are casual football fans or don't even like football suddenly become interested and involved to see if Michael Sam can successfully be an openly gay player in the NFL.

    You have way more coverage and opinions hinging on every single move. The teams suddenly can't make a single move regarding the player without someone criticizing and jumping to conclusions about what they did.
    With Hernandez there was no one judging the Patriots and saying they handled the situation poorly when they released him. It was just a story going on involving a Patriot.

    It's a lose lose situation when trying to deal with handling Michael Sam. Because people automatically assume that if he isn't getting playing time then the team must be prejudice. That's why teams don't want to deal with that so called circus.

    Yes winners cope with controversy all the time. But handling Michael Sam is dealing with a much larger scale.

    That being said I just think the guy isn't as good as people think. I keep hearing people reference the league lead in sacks in the SEC. So he must be good. It would be far from the first time someone dominated a league and wasn't cut out for the NFL. Tim Tebow ring a bell?
    But people outside of football get involved with the things you mentioned, it gets national media attention on shows other than sports shows. I saw a clip of the Colbert Report where Stephen Colbert made satire out of the Incognito-Martin situation, saying Martin could look forward to the next year, when he would get to call the rookies half, well...you know.

    Then, I saw a clip of the Daily Show where Jon Stewart was mocking the assertion of wondering if Michael Sam would be a distraction by saying 'but murder, sexual assault, dog fighting, yelling the n-word at a concert and other things aren't distractions', while showing pictures of Hernandez, Ben, Vick, Cooper and others while mentioning other things if I remember correctly.

    I don't even watch those shows often, I saw it when it came on while looking for something else and it caught my eye(I think that's what I was doing lol)but basically I found it being talked about by others without even having to look. The Rice situation has also generated a lot of press, and we've also had Nanci Pelosi speaking out saying Ray McDonald shouldn't be allowed to play before his case has even been proven. People talked about Hernandez's situation as well, news reports interviewed Oden Lloyd's semi pro football coach.

    Those things do get attention from other places, and generally I agree with InsaneBlaze23's point that distractions do not hurt teams as much as people think. You mentioned Tebow, but even with him NE was willing to bring him in, even in the wake of dealing with all the injuries, new players coming in, and the Hernandez situation. They did that, and went 12-4. They likely did not think the Tebow distraction would hurt them that much.

    Teams are better at dealing with media distractions, even on a large scale than many people seem to think. These guys are pros, and are likely very good at compartmentalizing. There have been players who have had family members die within a few days of a game, and played great in it. If guys can compartmentalize through that, the gay rights involvement should not be a big deal.

    The Falcons in all honesty are the only team I can remember having a significant dip in their record after a big media circus in 2007 with the Vick dog fighting case, and their record dipping I think had more to do with their offense being so centered around Vick and losing that as opposed to the distraction. Without their great running game, that team may have gone 0-16 in 2006. They would have likely had the worst offense in the league because of how bad their passing game was and their pass defense was awful. Run D was good, but their pass D was so bad that their D was still pretty bad. And Vick was the biggest reason their run game was successful, because he opened up lanes for the RBs with the attention he got, despite their run blocking being average at best IMO.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
    But people outside of football get involved with the things you mentioned, it gets national media attention on shows other than sports shows. I saw a clip of the Colbert Report where Stephen Colbert made satire out of the Incognito-Martin situation, saying Martin could look forward to the next year, when he would get to call the rookies half, well...you know.

    Then, I saw a clip of the Daily Show where Jon Stewart was mocking the assertion of wondering if Michael Sam would be a distraction by saying 'but murder, sexual assault, dog fighting, yelling the n-word at a concert and other things aren't distractions', while showing pictures of Hernandez, Ben, Vick, Cooper and others while mentioning other things if I remember correctly.

    I don't even watch those shows often, I saw it when it came on while looking for something else and it caught my eye(I think that's what I was doing lol)but basically I found it being talked about by others without even having to look. The Rice situation has also generated a lot of press, and we've also had Nanci Pelosi speaking out saying Ray McDonald shouldn't be allowed to play before his case has even been proven. People talked about Hernandez's situation as well, news reports interviewed Oden Lloyd's semi pro football coach.

    Those things do get attention from other places, and generally I agree with InsaneBlaze23's point that distractions do not hurt teams as much as people think. You mentioned Tebow, but even with him NE was willing to bring him in, even in the wake of dealing with all the injuries, new players coming in, and the Hernandez situation. They did that, and went 12-4. They likely did not think the Tebow distraction would hurt them that much.

    Teams are better at dealing with media distractions, even on a large scale than many people seem to think. These guys are pros, and are likely very good at compartmentalizing. There have been players who have had family members die within a few days of a game, and played great in it. If guys can compartmentalize through that, the gay rights involvement should not be a big deal.

    The Falcons in all honesty are the only team I can remember having a significant dip in their record after a big media circus in 2007 with the Vick dog fighting case, and their record dipping I think had more to do with their offense being so centered around Vick and losing that as opposed to the distraction. Without their great running game, that team may have gone 0-16 in 2006. They would have likely had the worst offense in the league because of how bad their passing game was and their pass defense was awful. Run D was good, but their pass D was so bad that their D was still pretty bad. And Vick was the biggest reason their run game was successful, because he opened up lanes for the RBs with the attention he got, despite their run blocking being average at best IMO.
    Everyone seems to keep ignoring my comments that at the end of the day I think Michael Sam just isn't that good.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Everyone seems to keep ignoring my comments that at the end of the day I think Michael Sam just isn't that good.
    My comments aren't really Sam or about your opinion of Sam. If he's a bad player, he's a bad player. I'll trust that judgement with the teams evaluating him. My opinion and comments are about distractions and how the distraction around Sam isn't as big as people are making it out to be and that media distractions doesn't equal losing or struggling teams.

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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post
    My comments aren't really Sam or about your opinion of Sam. If he's a bad player, he's a bad player. I'll trust that judgement with the teams evaluating him. My opinion and comments are about distractions and how the distraction around Sam isn't as big as people are making it out to be and that media distractions doesn't equal losing or struggling teams.
    My point of my last post was that I'm agreeing with what you have been posting.

    I was just adding that I don't think it's the potential distraction that put him out of a job. I think it is his lack of NFL caliber talent.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Everyone seems to keep ignoring my comments that at the end of the day I think Michael Sam just isn't that good.
    That's fine, that's your opinion. Nobody is talking about your opinion of Sam's play because it isn't relevant to the discussion of whether or not he is a distraction IMO. Nobody is accusing you of hating on Sam for homophobic reasons, and I'm not saying I thought he was cut for those reasons. You said you thought he'd be a big distraction yourself. To tell you the truth, I haven't closely watched Michael Sam and can't speak that much to how he did in preseason, or if he should be on a team. The main point I was making though, is that a good bulk of the arguments against him IMO are pretty asinine, for reasons highlighted-in particular, the media distraction one.
    Last edited by fallforward3y+; 10-23-2014 at 11:20 PM.

  10. #55
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    Most of these old, conservative coaches and managers that populate the NFL would not feel comfortable dealing with an openly gay player. I don't think talent is the only issue here. It can't be. What Sam did in the SEC and in the preseason should be more than enough to earn him a spot in the NFL. Look at the DEs on our practice squad: Zach Thompson and Gerald Rivers. Teams don't even wanna know if Sam will be a distraction. Just the potential distraction invloving a practice-squad player (like the reality show that had to be cancelled, then Josina Anderson reporting about the shower, etc) already scares teams away.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
    Most of these old, conservative coaches and managers that populate the NFL would not feel comfortable dealing with an openly gay player. I don't think talent is the only issue here. It can't be. What Sam did in the SEC and in the preseason should be more than enough to earn him a spot in the NFL.
    Nothing he did in college has earned him a spot in the NFL. It earned him an opportunity to earn a spot in the NFL and he got that opportunity. He might get another one.
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