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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryh View Post
    You make an interesting argument but unfortunately your research is lacking a little credibility. She has represented victims in the OJ Simpson case, the Scott Pederson case and the Michael Jackson case and she has represented them because all the big name lawyers were defending the perpetrators. This hardly makes her an ambulance chaser. I think there is a little too much "Men are the real victims here" in your argument for my taste. It is my belief that whether this woman is being represented by Gloria Allred or Allan Dershowitz her voice should be heard without a bias because of her lawyer.
    I hear where you are coming from but don't question my credibility. Had you find a little research yourself you would know my opinion on this matter from the number of threads where this topic has been discussed.

    I'm not sure where you are getting the second part I highlighted from any of my comments. I hate to assume, but perhaps this issue is particularly sensitive to you. Whatever the case, if you are entitled to believe what you want, but please don't go putting words into my mouth and jumping to conclusions that don't exist.

    Edit: FYI, the second case I referred to was in California and it was a woman as the accused that Allred was suing.. Hardly fits the "men the real victims" thing you tried.
    Last edited by Rastic; 10-02-2014 at 09:25 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    I hear where you are coming from but don't question my credibility. Had you find a little research yourself you would know my opinion on this matter from the number of threads where this topic has been discussed.

    I'm not sure where you are getting the second part I highlighted from any of my comments. I hate to assume, but perhaps this issue is particularly sensitive to you. Whatever the case, if you are entitled to believe what you want, but please don't go putting words into my mouth and jumping to conclusions that don't exist.

    Edit: FYI, the second case I referred to was in California and it was a woman as the accused that Allred was suing.. Hardly fits the "men the real victims" thing you tried.
    Well we clearly are going to disagree on this point aren't we. And I am going to question your credibility....when you paint Gloria Allred with only one brush....that of an ambulance chaser then you do lose a lot of credibility in my mind. And as far as doing your research on these forums and threads well enough said. I will remind you that this was actually started by one of the posters on here claiming that in spite of a broken nose and threats to his children it was really the woman who was being a gold digger. I have spent a lifetime listening to men blame women for all of their problems and I hear a lot of it on this particular thread. If I hit a sore point for you I apologize but I won't apologize for calling you on your character assassination of Gloria Allred. I have said my peace....feel free to to trash me as you will. Best wishes and good luck in the future.
    Il a été soit couché ou alors qu'il est étendu maintenant.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryh View Post
    Well we clearly are going to disagree on this point aren't we. And I am going to question your credibility....when you paint Gloria Allred with only one brush....that of an ambulance chaser then you do lose a lot of credibility in my mind. And as far as doing your research on these forums and threads well enough said. I will remind you that this was actually started by one of the posters on here claiming that in spite of a broken nose and threats to his children it was really the woman who was being a gold digger. I have spent a lifetime listening to men blame women for all of their problems and I hear a lot of it on this particular thread. If I hit a sore point for you I apologize but I won't apologize for calling you on your character assassination of Gloria Allred. I have said my peace....feel free to to trash me as you will. Best wishes and good luck in the future.
    If you could look past Allred you'd see that I said multiple times the woman could very well be a victim and that one of my primary beefs with her (Allred) is she often takes attention away from the victim she represents. And if my view of Allred is your standard of what is credible, on that we will disagree.

    So don't me at fault for how you react to someone else's option of a public figure, that's your issue not mine. You might not believe it, but I'm sure we agree more on this issue of DM than you might realize.

    I don't intend on trashing you at all, but you are right, you did touch a sore spot by basically saying things I did not say as if I did. But the decenct thing to do would have been to PM me rather suggest what you did publicly.

    Lord knows I have enough issues dealing with what I do say. Don't go making me accountable for something I didn't

    And merrily on we go.
    Last edited by Rastic; 10-02-2014 at 10:51 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    If you could look past Allred you'd see that I said multiple times the woman could very well be a victim and that one of my primary beefs with her (Allred) is she often takes attention away from the victim she represents. And if my view of Allred is your standard of what is credible, on that we will disagree.

    So don't me at fault for how you react to someone else's option of a public figure, that's your issue not mine. You might not believe it, but I'm sure we agree more on this issue of DM than you might realize.

    I don't intend on trashing you at all, but you are right, you did touch a sore spot by basically saying things I did not say as if I did. But the decenct thing to do would have been to PM me rather suggest what you did publicly.

    Lord knows I have enough issues dealing with what I do say. Don't go making me accountable for something I didn't

    And merrily on we go.
    Clearly I have done you a disservice and for that I apologize. I have spent my life railing against family violence and sexual abuse/assault. I know that many men see women as the problem and that violence is a perfectly acceptable problem solving strategy when it comes to their families. I certainly had no intention of putting you or anyone else on this thread into that category. Because I am so passionate about this subject I have decided that from now on I will limit my comments to football . I will leave others to comment on these important subjects. I have never believed that punishing men (football players) will stop the violence. I believe what stops the violence is other men standing up and saying, "Violence is not an acceptable way to solve family problems and we will not accept it" Best wishes and as you say merrily on we go.
    Il a été soit couché ou alors qu'il est étendu maintenant.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    And? So what does that mean to you? I'm not really sure what you are saying. Are you suggesting then that the NFL really doesn't need to address this because the numbers are relatively small compared to the whole? Are you saying that because only a few are doing it, it really isn't a big deal?

    The NFL would have been content to let it continue to be swept under the rug until the now infamous tape seen round the world. Once that tape surfaced, they then received enormous public pressure because of the ridiculous light suspension AND because they violated every single thing you do with victims.... 1) by having Janay Palmer be interviewed in the same room as Ray Rice, 2) by having her sit with him during the press conference, (where he did absolutely nothing to take responsibility for his actions), and 3) where she was the one who apologized for "her part." That outraged the public even more. But even with that, had the suspension matched the crime, I think people would have been content to let the NFL deal with it's dirty little secrets on their own.

    Then, boom, it became an even bigger issue because just as it was starting to die down, the other tape surfaced. That second tape then raised a lot of questions about Goodell's honesty, because he claimed to have never even known about the tape, which was challenged by the Associated Press, and the police source saying it was delivered to their office, and it raised a lot of questions about the Raven's part in this, etc. Not only that, there were then 3-4 other cases literally in the same week. Therefore, the public was fired up.

    But, I'm still not sure what your point is. So, of course, given the population as a whole within the NFL compared to the number of DV and sexual assault incidents, the numbers are low, thank God, but I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Just because the numbers are low, doesn't mean it's not a problem that doesn't need to be addressed.

    We can say the same about cases of DUI or PED use within the NFL. Not everyone is doing it, and I'm sure the numbers are low, compared to the whole, but it's still a problem that gets addressed.

    So then, based on your premise, what percentage of men committing domestic violence and rape in the NFL would you deem as worthy enough to be considered a drastic problem? as you say.
    I think perhaps more of what he is saying is that this dream some seem to have of nobody in the NFL ever committing any of these acts ever is not likely to happen.

    A look at the history of humanity will tell you, that many people commit violent acts. Murders, rapes, assaults etc. This does not appear to be more significant in the NFL than your average organization, thus it seems a bit silly to make it seem an 'NFL problem'. Why is it the NFL's problem more than other organizations that perhaps have even a higher percentage of members who have committed similar acts?

    When you single out a particular organization, you make it seem as though they have some special problem with it. Why not just punish the people who actually do it once their cases are proven? I will say though, that they likely did know about the video before it was released publicly. That though, is the main focus of where I'd criticize the NFL, he should have had more than 2 games.

    But if your expecting the NFL to play some major role in reducing DV and Sexual Assault, you'll probably be disappointed. People make it out to seem like there is some huge problem in the NFL, and while what you consider a huge problem is a subjective matter, if you consider it a huge NFL problem you'd likely consider it a problem in many other professions/organizations.

    It's more of a human problem than an NFL one, thus singling out the NFL is a bit silly IMO.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    None of these cases have been minor, sorry. Read the story. They haven't. And none of the cases involve a vindictive girlfriend trying to get an guy thrown out of the NFL. This Dwyer case is absolutely scary and this guy sounds dangerous and volatile.

    Perhaps it might be better to figure out how we can reduce male violence and stop worrying about all these vindictive women making stuff up. Then we might get somewhere.
    Making up allegations is a serious matter as well, which should be taken into account. Otherwise, there is a stronger risk of people going to jail without having done anything. When you have people criticizing the Niners for playing Ray McDonald before anything has been proven, it sets a dangerous precedent. That basically means the standard they expect is treating him as though he's guilty before it's proven. I bet a lot of people thought Brian Banks was guilty if they heard about the accusation.

    Maybe McDonald is guilty, maybe he isn't. But until we know, we shouldn't act like we know he's guilty or punish him for things it hasn't been proven he's done just to try and make people happy(which likely won't happen anyway imo).

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