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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larvage View Post
    Anyone remember 1st quarter on Sunday? Manning gets hit very low and driven to ground... Before that hit he marched down the field with zero issues? Now let's use our brains, he has an injury... A week off healed it some... His first drive he played exactly how we would hope... Here's the tricky part, remember the injury is still there... Then boom a low hit in the area of tear muscle, and his play drops? I'm not sure how this is hard to understand.... But more important why didn't 51 (not including CJ) players lay a freaking egg and played with zero heart? Is the other players not held to Mannings accountability?
    That hit could have aggravated it. Or maybe it was aggravated when he took off to run. Hip flexor injuries are like that. Especially as you get older I'm sure.

    It's a common excuse for Manning led teams in the playoffs. I don't know why. And I don't know exactly why it happens. Personally it makes me question Peyton's leadership ability in playoff games.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mora View Post
    That hit could have aggravated it. Or maybe it was aggravated when he took off to run. Hip flexor injuries are like that. Especially as you get older I'm sure.

    It's a common excuse for Manning led teams in the playoffs. I don't know why. And I don't know exactly why it happens. Personally it makes me question Peyton's leadership ability in playoff games.
    So Manning being injured is a common excuse in playoffs? I've followed Manning ever since his days at UT, I never recall an injury excuse?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larvage View Post
    So Manning being injured is a common excuse in playoffs? I've followed Manning ever since his days at UT, I never recall an injury excuse?
    no, the excuse that the team around him didn't play with any desire or urgency, and that HAS always been an excuse.

    Hooray, beer!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    no, the excuse that the team around him didn't play with any desire or urgency, and that HAS always been an excuse.
    Thanks, that's what I meant.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    no, the excuse that the team around him didn't play with any desire or urgency, and that HAS always been an excuse.

    Right...and he and his teams have habitually choked since his UT days.

    Greatest CHOKER of All Time!!!

  6. #21
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    I have no problem agreeing that Manning is among the greatest QBs to ever play in the NFL.

    The more important questions to me are - Does he have enough left in the tank to be a good QB next year in critical games against good teams? Or if the Broncos can put enough players around him to offset his diminishing skills?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    The more important questions to me are - Does he have enough left in the tank to be a good QB next year in critical games against good teams? ?
    No. And even with a full tank he still chokes in critical games against good teams.

    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Or if the Broncos can put enough players around him to offset his diminishing skills?
    That's another excuse. Just how much more damn talent does he need. This is/was the most talented teams he's ever had yet he still needs even more to succeed. If so then just how GREAT is he really???

  8. #23
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    I will say this, Peyton is the best qb ever of lighting up average teams in the regular season. Especially early in the season. Nobody is more dominating there. Against really good teams in playoff games, it's another story all together.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    no, the excuse that the team around him didn't play with any desire or urgency, and that HAS always been an excuse.
    Wasn't that your great Elway's words himself the teams haven't gone down kicking and screaming? Was I watching a different game when CJ was running and DT and Sanders was picking their nose? Was I watching something else when Talib had holding call after call? Or he got simply beat? Or receivers that get touched at the line and unable to get to their mark? Or unable to catch balls that bounce off their hands?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel B. View Post
    No. And even with a full tank he still chokes in critical games against good teams.



    That's another excuse. Just how much more damn talent does he need. This is/was the most talented teams he's ever had yet he still needs even more to succeed. If so then just how GREAT is he really???
    Perhaps you were missing my point. I am saying he may be a legendary QB but is he really the "best chance to win" anymore? I do not feel it is disrespectful or absurd to discuss this question as some seem to around here.

    At some point every great player has to admit they do not have the same skills. Bronco fans need to accept that perhaps Manning is reaching (or reached?) the point where his strengths are becoming overshadowed by his weaknesses.

    Over the last couple of seasons we have seen repeated losses in big games or against very good defenses due to the same formula based on Manning's immobility and diminished ability to make certain throws or improvise when a play breaks down. Repeatedly we have heard the comments after games from opposing defenses saying they knew what was coming. Because there are fewer options in the playbook with Manning.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kotybug96 View Post
    Tom Brady has players like, Gronkowski, Edelman, Moss, and even Welker who where great players before they ever played with Brady. Manning helped groom players like Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Pierre Garcon, and Demaryius Thomas into the players they are today or the players they were.
    Im sorry but this alone loses you credibility for everything else you have said. Players like Gronkowski and Edelman who were great players before they ever played with Brady. You mean Gronkowski who had like 22 games in college before missing his final season in college and Julian Edelman who was a COLLEGE QB, so how exactly was he an excellent player before he played with Brady.

    For the Record I dont agree with the majority of your posts and was planning on replying and countering your arguements, however that one statement makes it just impossible to even take the post seriously.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Perhaps you were missing my point. I am saying he may be a legendary QB but is he really the "best chance to win" anymore? I do not feel it is disrespectful or absurd to discuss this question as some seem to around here.

    At some point every great player has to admit they do not have the same skills. Bronco fans need to accept that perhaps Manning is reaching (or reached?) the point where his strengths are becoming overshadowed by his weaknesses.

    Over the last couple of seasons we have seen repeated losses in big games or against very good defenses due to the same formula based on Manning's immobility and diminished ability to make certain throws or improvise when a play breaks down. Repeatedly we have heard the comments after games from opposing defenses saying they knew what was coming. Because there are fewer options in the playbook with Manning.
    Ok yeah I missed your point earlier and totally agree with what you've stated here, which are basically my arguments as well.

  13. #28
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    Peyton Manning in my mind is the Greatest QB to ever play the game.

    Super Bowl rings are "Team" accomplishments. There are so manny QBs that won multiple SB that will not even be mention in such a discussion.

    Tell me if any of these QBs are even close to Manning when it comes to being greatest and they all won more SBs than Manning?

    Terry Bradshaw (4 SB)
    Troy Aikman (3 SB)
    Bob Griesee (2 SB)
    Jim Plunkett (2 SB)
    Ben Roetlisberger (2 SB)
    Eli Manning (2 SB)

  14. #29
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    This will be my last post. I am am 18 year old girl, I've never posted on a forum before at all. I posted what I did, not to start any more contraversy, but to just let people know how I felt and let people know how Peyton Manning has helped me in my life. I am 18 years old and will never win arguments against middle-aged men who sit here and go back and forth bashing each other on these forums. Maybe pepole can't or won't take my post seriously and that's ok because I do and I know a lot of people that will and that is ok with me! You can say I am misinformed and maybe I am, but it was just a post to get my feelings out there about someone WHO TO ME is the Greatest of All Time. I'm someone who doesn't like confrontation so this is why this will be my last post. My last comment is to Breakin2 who said I am misinformed about Gronkowski and Edelman and you can't take my post seriously. Maybe so and I respect your opinion and your post. What I meant and what I know about Gronkowski being a great player before he played with Brady is this. Gronkowski played at the University of Arizona from 2007-2009. His freshman year he had 28 receptions, 525 yards, and 6 touchdowns. He was named The Sporting News Freshman All American, The Sporting News Freshman Pac-10, and All Pac-10 honorable mention player. He did miss 3 games to start the 2008 season and still recorded 47 receptions, 672 yards, and a team best 10 touchdowns that season. 5 of those touchdowns came in his 1st 2 games of the season. He was named twice as the John Mackey National Tight End of the Week. Prior to his 2009 season he was on the Lombardi Award watchlist for most outstanding college football lineman or linebacker. He did miss his junior season due to back surgery which made his NFL draft stock fall. My point is in those stats. Gronkowski is a beast and possibly the best tight end in the game and he didn't need Brady there to help him. Again I mean no disrespect. I hope some people liked my post and again it was just to show how inspirational Peyton Manning is to me and always will be.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kotybug96 View Post
    This will be my last post. I am am 18 year old girl, I've never posted on a forum before at all. I posted what I did, not to start any more contraversy, but to just let people know how I felt and let people know how Peyton Manning has helped me in my life. I am 18 years old and will never win arguments against middle-aged men who sit here and go back and forth bashing each other on these forums. Maybe pepole can't or won't take my post seriously and that's ok because I do and I know a lot of people that will and that is ok with me! You can say I am misinformed and maybe I am, but it was just a post to get my feelings out there about someone WHO TO ME is the Greatest of All Time. I'm someone who doesn't like confrontation so this is why this will be my last post. My last comment is to Breakin2 who said I am misinformed about Gronkowski and Edelman and you can't take my post seriously. Maybe so and I respect your opinion and your post. What I meant and what I know about Gronkowski being a great player before he played with Brady is this. Gronkowski played at the University of Arizona from 2007-2009. His freshman year he had 28 receptions, 525 yards, and 6 touchdowns. He was named The Sporting News Freshman All American, The Sporting News Freshman Pac-10, and All Pac-10 honorable mention player. He did miss 3 games to start the 2008 season and still recorded 47 receptions, 672 yards, and a team best 10 touchdowns that season. 5 of those touchdowns came in his 1st 2 games of the season. He was named twice as the John Mackey National Tight End of the Week. Prior to his 2009 season he was on the Lombardi Award watchlist for most outstanding college football lineman or linebacker. He did miss his junior season due to back surgery which made his NFL draft stock fall. My point is in those stats. Gronkowski is a beast and possibly the best tight end in the game and he didn't need Brady there to help him. Again I mean no disrespect. I hope some people liked my post and again it was just to show how inspirational Peyton Manning is to me and always will be.
    Thank you for your post. I'm really glad you posted what you did in spite of what others have said. For a first time poster you did remarkably well. Peyton Manning inspires you. He inspires a lot of people. Nothing wrong in acknowledging that.

    This place can be a hard place sometimes. People have very strong opinions. It can be intimidating and sometimes people can even be downright mean. I think it took a great deal of courage for you to post what you did and to stick up for yourself when challenged.

    People are upset, angry, sad, and a whole bunch of other things over a devastating loss. We should have won that game. Emotions are high. Don't take it personally.

    While Peyton had a terrible game and does fail a lot in the playoffs, he has a lot of very admirable characteristics as a person in life. Take those on as well in your life, sportsmanship, caring about community and children, team work, leadership, outstanding work ethic and humor. Those characteristics he displays will serve you well in life. They certainly are inspiring.

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