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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larvage View Post
    Not sure how this is possible, but I actually agree with you??? Gees didn't see that one coming...
    I say lets just all go tear and burn all our jerseys and memorabilia! There's no sense in supporting our current players
    You should support your team if you want to. Don't burn your jerseys (ala Matt Schaub) unless you really feel you need to express yourself.

  2. #122
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    I don't think the best "GOAT" QB debate can ever be settled, simply because of all the different factors involved. If QB was not a team sport then maybe it would be possible. One could more easily choose "the Best" in non-team sports because the performance is not reliant on any team mates doing their job. Add to that the many different aspects and requirements of the QB position, like leadership, decision making, adaptability, arm strength, desire to win at any cost, throwing accuracy, attitude, and the list goes on. Another one that has no bearing on actual performance in any of the required skills, is the personal one. If I don't like a particular player for personal reasons, he will never be good enough, regardless of his performance.
    I think a lot of people have a couple of "favorites" in the skill set arena that they value higher than the others, and that will lean them toward the guy that (in their eyes) excel in those areas, and those that don't, regardless of their other skills, fall short.
    On the flip side, if a player exibits a particular trait (perceived most likely) that one absolutely hates (lack of heart, lack of effort, attitude, etc) then I think that adds to the personal dislike feelings, which then turns a discussion into a heated debate.
    All that being said, Manning excels in areas that are not as important to me, and has failed (my opinion) in those that are. Not to say he hasn't been a great QB and a great person his whole career, because he has, and that should be his legacy. He just isn't that high on my "Greatest QB GOAT" list, as far as football QB's are concerned.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meloche View Post
    This! Manning seems to be the only QB that has shown that he can win under different coaches (Dungy, Caldwell, Fox). Montana had success in Kansas City but got injured so it's impossible to know what he could have done. I just hate seeing the playoff vs. postseason stuff about Manning. He's been in the playoffs almost every singe year since he's been a starter (I think his rookie year was the only year he wasn't), so unless he wins the Super Bowl EVERY year, people will just talk about him choking. Brady hasn't won a Super Bowl in 10+ years. Where's the talk of him choking? Rogers only has one ring. Where's the talk of him choking? The QB can carry in the regular season, but the TEAM must come together in the postseason. People forget how great we (especially Manning) were in the playoffs last year. We DOMINATED San Diego and New England! People forget that NO ONE was going to beat Seattle last year; the Broncos were just unfortunate that it was them. Besides, there are way too many factors to determine THE greatest of all time. Manning will always be in the discussion, and he and Brady are the greatest of this generation without question, and I'm ok with that.



    Also, this! The standards placed on him get placed on no other QB, possibly in the history of the game! It's so unfair. If us (and the media) looked at Manning the way we did every other QB, these discussions wouldn't exist. What happens if Brady loses in the Super Bowl and becomes 3-3 in Super Bowls? Will everyone look at him differently and talk about him choking? No. But when the same thing happens to Manning, it's all about how he just can't get it done...
    Brady has reached the championship game 10 times....about the same # as 1 and dones for manning....might that be the reason?

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh Salute View Post
    I completely disagree. The measure of a career and a talent are not summed up in Championships and rings. That is a ridiculous view point. Championships are won by teams that consist of rosters containing 53 men and of course different coaching staffs etc. One player does not determine the winning of a championship. Certainly they play a factor, but it all does not reside on them. Brady has not won his rings on his own, but rather had really strong teams around him. Not to mention the spectre of a lot of aided help through spygate and let's talk about De-flate gate now.

    In my opinion the facts speak to greatness on the field of battle and spell out what one player accomplishes more than another. In almost all statistical areas Manning is superior to Brady. And again, with far less talented supporting casts. IMHO nuff said.
    really? who were these all stars Brady had on offense? Brandon lafell? Deion Branch? David Givens? David patten? Daniel Graham?

    Who did manning have? oh yea...Wayne, Harrison, Clark.

    You might want to rethink that..........

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Yes, I know he is. I've been asking him why he needs to continue to be here and bash Manning every chance he gets. He thinks I'm obsessed with him. Lol! Not so, more like irritated actually.

    Just so you know, not a bro. I'm a woman. No worries though!
    You are obsessed with me. Many other people say the exact same thing as me. But when I say it, you get over the top upset about it.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    Brady has reached the championship game 10 times....about the same # as 1 and dones for manning....might that be the reason?
    So as long as Brady MAKES the championship game, he doesn't have to go beyond it to be considered great? If Manning just MADE the championship game but didn't win the Super Bowl on a consistent basis (much like Brady for the past 10+ years), the talk would still be about him choking and not winning a Super Bowl. Yet Brady wins 3 SBs early in his career and no one thinks it a big deal that he hasn't done a lick since then besides "make it" to the SB (not to mention him choking at his chance at a perfect season). I'm not trying to get into a Manning vs. Brady thing, it just seems that the standards and expectations placed on Manning are far higher than any other QB and it isn't right.
    Last edited by Meloche; 01-19-2015 at 02:10 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mora View Post
    You are obsessed with me. Many other people say the exact same thing as me. But when I say it, you get over the top upset about it.


    Now, how arrogant can you be to think I'm obsessed with you. Like I keep saying, it's irritatation not obsession. I admit, I do get irritated that as a Colts fan you spend endless hours on a Bronco forum bashing Manning every chance you can get.

    And yes, I am able to accept a Bronco fan spending time here expressing their negative views or bashing Manning but not so much from an obsessed anti-Manning Colt fan. That's the difference.

    Sure, you have every right to be here but I guess I just don't get it. He's not your QB anymore.

    I would hope that you'd me more excited about your own team and QB and enjoy what's happening with your own team. But you're even here during your own game time. So yeah, I get irritated by your incessant need to take shots at our QB. I understand it coming from Bronco fans; it is our forum afterall, but it just feels really irritating coming from you because you seem like you can't let it go.

    But if you think I'm obsessed with you, I'll ignore you. Bye, bye.

    Edit: let me be really honest here. The tipping point for me with you was when you tried to dash the spirit of that 8 year old boy who came here and posted about how he loved Manning and you felt the need to even bash Manning then. It felt really insensitive and not necessary. But whatever. You were just "expressing your opinion" without regard to whom you were doing it to.
    Last edited by broncoslover115; 01-19-2015 at 02:31 PM.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    really? who were these all stars Brady had on offense? Brandon lafell? Deion Branch? David Givens? David patten? Daniel Graham?

    Who did manning have? oh yea...Wayne, Harrison, Clark.

    You might want to rethink that..........


    the o-line that allows the QB to have time and makes reads, brady line was better,

    2007 - he had randy moss, and he could not win,

    he had both gronkowski and hernandez and could not win

    harrison- is not moss, harrison is a small receiver, same with wayne and less speed, although amazing route runner


    im not sure what you are saying though, because when brady had arguably 2 of the best TE on the same team he could not win


    and for the record, brady had Adam V kick 2 of his GwG SB win's compared to manning whose kicker missed the game winning field goal

    not to mention, having blair white, trying to end the game on a 3rd down vs the jets,

    look at blair whites numbers as scrub walking off the street,

    there is no problem bringing up valid points, but to say

    clark, harrison,wayne and to not objectively compare to what brady had,lol come on!


    not to mention, after james retired, manning never really had a decent run game!

    brady was surrounded by a top 5 defence when he won his 1st 2 superbowls, he again did not make the game winning throw, he just sat there watching his FG mr clutch win it for his team,

    again a team sport,

    since brady has been surrounded with more talent on the offence, he has not won a SB!!!

    when he had talented D he won, but now with him on O he has failed to beat the giants in back 2 back SB

    while having randy moss, who caught a ridiculous amount of TD's!


    lol, i feel like many fans are not objective here, you dont think decker improved with manning?

    im sure he had less targets and was more productive in denver with manning than with the jets and smith



    but as I have grown accustom to, blame the QB only everyone is was perfect


    and lets not forget, maybe something you feel is not important, but you overlooked!

    coaching, oh my wow! how much coaching makes a difference, with talent on the team, or not having any

    schemes, game planning ,in game adjustments


    this is all on the QB, seriously bro
    serious
    Last edited by Manning2BayBay; 01-19-2015 at 02:12 PM.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larvage View Post
    Ugh, some people just like to argue, okay you win the rules in today's games are the same as 10 years ago. Here I thought they made all these "safety" rules to players that has greatly changed the league to a pass friendly game, but I am wrong... Sorry for doubting you, you are right Manning sucks, there you happy? We just spit on a player that plays for our favorite team, hope that makes things better... Man that felt great!!! Not standing by our teams and players is awesome
    I would appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth. I do not recall having said that Manning sucks. Go ahead. Conduct a search. If you can quote me on that, I will defer, but I don't think you can.

    I am not in the habit of spitting on players literally or figuratively. Once again, quote me if you can, but I don't think you will be able to find a quote of mine to that effect.

    As far as standing by the Broncos goes, I have been a fan for fifty years. I had to wait ten years for the first winning season. Could you have waited that long loyally?

    I am a student of football history. When people talk of greatest in history, that is my context. Since 1906, the team with the ball must have seven on LOS, ends are eligible, one of the four backs may move, but all others must be set. Four downs to go ten yards. Field is 53 yards one foot wide by 120 yards long. Hashmarks were introduced in the 1930s, and eventually became the same as college. The current hashmarks, aligned with the goalpost uprights, were adopted in 1972. The football used to be like a rugby ball which allowed the drop kick to be a viable weapon. Since the 1920s the football acquired its current size and shape. That was right at the beginning of the NFL.

    So, in post #108 when I said, "Same field, same ball, same basic rules.", it has to do with the game of football. Any conversation of greatest QB in the history of the game should go back at least to Sammy Baugh.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post


    Now, how arrogant can you be to think I'm obsessed with you. Like I keep saying, it's irritatation not obsession. I admit, I do get irritated that as a Colts fan you spend endless hours on a Bronco forum bashing Manning every chance you can get.

    And yes, I am able to accept a Bronco fan spending time here expressing their negative views or bashing Manning but not so much from an obsessed anti-Manning Colt fan. That's the difference.

    Sure, you have every right to be here but I guess I just don't get it. He's not your QB anymore.

    I would hope that you'd me more excited about your own team and QB and enjoy what's happening with your own team. But you're even here during your own game time. So yeah, I get irritated by your incessant need to take shots at our QB. I understand it coming from Bronco fans; it is our forum afterall, but it just feels really irritating coming from you because you seem like you can't let it go.

    But if you think I'm obsessed with you, I'll ignore you. Bye, bye.

    Edit: let me be really honest here. The tipping point for me with you was when you tried to dash the spirit of that 8 year old boy who came here and posted about how he loved Manning and you felt the need to even bash Manning then. It felt really insensitive and not necessary. But whatever. You were just "expressing your opinion" without regard to whom you were doing it to.
    You're getting way too dramatic. He was not 8 yrs old. He was in 8th grade. And I did not take away his spirit. Go back and read it if you want.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manning2BayBay View Post
    the o-line that allows the QB to have time and makes reads, brady line was better,

    2007 - he had randy moss, and he could not win,

    he had both gronkowski and hernandez and could not win

    harrison- is not moss, harrison is a small receiver, same with wayne and less speed, although amazing route runner


    im not sure what you are saying though, because when brady had arguably 2 of the best TE on the same team he could not win


    and for the record, brady had Adam V kick 2 of his GwG SB win's compared to manning whose kicker missed the game winning field goal

    not to mention, having blair white, trying to end the game on a 3rd down vs the jets,

    look at blair whites numbers as scrub walking off the street,

    there is no problem bringing up valid points, but to say

    clark, harrison,wayne and to not objectively compare to what brady had,lol come on!


    not to mention, after james retired, manning never really had a decent run game!

    brady was surrounded by a top 5 defence when he won his 1st 2 superbowls, he again did not make the game winning throw, he just sat there watching his FG mr clutch win it for his team,

    again a team sport,

    since brady has been surrounded with more talent on the offence, he has not won a SB!!!

    when he had talented D he won, but now with him on O he has failed to beat the giants in back 2 back SB

    while having randy moss, who caught a ridiculous amount of TD's!


    lol, i feel like many fans are not objective here, you dont think decker improved with manning?

    im sure he had less targets and was more productive in denver with manning than with the jets and smith



    but as I have grown accustom to, blame the QB only everyone is was perfect


    and lets not forget, maybe something you feel is not important, but you overlooked!

    coaching, oh my wow! how much coaching makes a difference, with talent on the team, or not having any

    schemes, game planning ,in game adjustments


    this is all on the QB, seriously bro
    serious
    The post I responded to said that Manning did more with less.....Brady won the SB with Dieon Branch and david Givens. manning won with wayne and Harrison. Wayne and harrison are ranked 7th and 8th all time receiving yards. Moss only played 3 years and 4 games with NE. Do you really want to try and argue that Manning had worse players around him on offense?

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larvage View Post
    I don't feel there is any way to say there is a such thing as a GOAT... The games are different then they were 10 years ago, and a world of difference in how they were 30 years ago... The game evolves, the players are different, stronger, faster...
    The last time I checked when a Super Bowl is won the hand out somewhere around 60 rings to the winning team, coaches, and players.. I don't think they make a special one for the QB.
    Here is one thing I can say Manning will hold every record for a player that plays his position, but he is humble enough that he always says every time a record is broke I couldn't do it alone... That's why I like Manning... Is there a GOAT? No? The game is not the same... You can't give one guy credit for a team game... But you can always go back and see which player statically has the record for the position he played and that is going to be Manning all day
    who doesn't????

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mora View Post
    You're getting way too dramatic. He was not 8 yrs old. He was in 8th grade. And I did not take away his spirit. Go back and read it if you want.
    We're obviously going to have to set up a "Kiddie Section" of the forums, now.

    No breaking of spirits in here!! And no Manning bad talk!!
    This post may or may not have been written while under the influence of alcohol, and I disclaim all responsibility for its contents, herein...

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mora View Post
    You're getting way too dramatic. He was not 8 yrs old. He was in 8th grade. And I did not take away his spirit. Go back and read it if you want.
    Fine. He was in the 8th grade. And let me remind you, many people had an issue with your response to that kid, not just me. But whatever. I will not respond to you anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomo 2000 View Post
    We're obviously going to have to set up a "Kiddie Section" of the forums, now.

    No breaking of spirits in here!! And no Manning bad talk!!
    No need. We are off topic, and I will not be responding to him any more.
    Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meloche View Post
    So as long as Brady MAKES the championship game, he doesn't have to go beyond it to be considered great? If Manning just MADE the championship game but didn't win the Super Bowl on a consistent basis (much like Brady for the past 10+ years), the talk would still be about him choking and not winning a Super Bowl. Yet Brady wins 3 SBs early in his career and no one thinks it a big deal that he hasn't done a lick since then besides "make it" to the SB (not to mention him choking at his chance at a perfect season). I'm not trying to get into a Manning vs. Brady thing, it just seems that the standards and expectations placed on Manning are far higher than any other QB and it isn't right.
    Brady has played 15 seasons. In 9 of them he has made the championship game. In 6 of them he has played in the SB...The first QB to do that... winning 3 so far. He is making the SB nearly every other year, on average. That's pretty unbelievably impressive. That really isn't the definition of a choker........ Has Manning even come close to that? I didn't think so.

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