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  1. #196
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    7,406
    My thoughts:

    First of all, I don't consider Manning a mercenary, but what if Manning had signed with the 49ers? Our "mercenary" cap hit would dip below a couple of those teams. At the same time, I think it's doubtful that the Broncos would have been as successful over the three years since they signed him.

    I think Elway did the logical thing in signing Manning, and building the team accordingly (win now philosophy). Do I wish we hadn't lost Doom? Yup, but that's a different topic. I didn't think Ball was a bad pick at the time, so I'm not going to complain about that. All in all, I would love for the Broncos to have built their own SB team from scratch, but if you have a chance to get PFM in that situation, you do whatever it takes to give your team the best chance to win.

  2. #197
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomo 2000 View Post
    I'd say that the stars were aligned for a near perfect walk to the superbowl. The afc was exceptionally weak last year, and even the Pats were just a shell of their normal selves.

    However, the beatdown/massacre we witnessed in the super bowl was exactly what you could expect of a team with no guts, poor coaching, and no leadership (on or off the field).



    Moreno, Decker, Beadles, Watson, Tebow, etc... We're bound to lose at least 1 or several of our guys this year, also. There are plenty, even if some of their contributions are debatable.



    I did put up the Patriot's "mercenary" numbers in my chart, for this exact reason. The Patriots have a surprising amound of homegrown players contributing, and Revis was their only "big" mercenary type signing.

    The talking heads will babble on about "draft vs FA" without actually contributing anything of substance to the discussion. They're just filling airtime and hitting easily approved "talking points". From the data I found at overthecap.com, we are clearly and undeniably "building" via free agency, with very little draft contribution, especially when compared to other successful franchises.
    The Patriots were definitely better than their normal selves last season lol.... That team was light years better than the previous two years, and was on par with the 2011 Pats, and was definitely better than 2010, 2009, 2008, 2006, 2005.

  3. #198
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    joplin, Mo
    Posts
    144
    We've been one of the most successful teams in the NFL since Manning and the "mercenaries" arrival. We swept the AFC west and are back to back to AFC champions.,..
    If not for massive injuries we best the Seahawks in the SB.
    If Tebow had led us to the last 3 seasons the hero worship would be incredible.,...

    SMELL THE ROSES

  4. #199
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Pueblo, Co
    Posts
    533
    Honestly to me the big issue is the online and defense turnover. I have always thought the continuity of both of these is paramount. IE seamless teamwork will make up for lesser named talent. To me Elways biggest boo boo was letting Dumervil go. I figure without Doom we are spending this check on ware and Philips in 2013. So that fax did cost some home grown talent.

  5. #200
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    DENVER
    Posts
    7,308
    Quote Originally Posted by oklahomabronco View Post
    We've been one of the most successful teams in the NFL since Manning and the "mercenaries" arrival. We swept the AFC west and are back to back to AFC champions.,..
    If not for massive injuries we best the Seahawks in the SB.
    If Tebow had led us to the last 3 seasons the hero worship would be incredible.,...

    SMELL THE ROSES
    We've been AFC champions once.

    Injuries aside we probably still lose the SB.

    But I agree, much more successful than most teams

  6. #201
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    13,171
    Franklin - getting paid more then Vaz. Not worth it. He is the player I am most bummed we lost tho.

    Replacements - Paradis, Gradkowski, Manny, Shelley, Garland, Clark, Cornick, Shofield.

    People act like we have nothing at OL I feel by reading posts. We have some really good offensive coaching up and I would be about anything they turn one of those names (on the min one) to a good player. We still have draft if a good player falls to us.




    Rahim Moore - probably the player we least have a backup ready for. He was inconsistent and I can see why we do not want to pay him.

    Replacements - Roby, Strewart, Webster, Bruton, Boldin

    Yea not as optimistic about this spot.



    Nate Irvin - I am ok with Barrow doing whatever Nate would have done. Nate and Moore have a bigger cap hit in 2016 then Franklin who cap hit that year is larger then All Pro Vaz's ever was for us. One of the reasons none of those three players still here.


    JT - overpaid. getting a contract only bad teams can afford to pay a player like that


    Pot Roast - 4mil one year contract from a player who said he would take a hometown discount. So what he get 3.75m? Tough call to let him walk.

    Replacements - this is why. Wolfe, Malik, Sly, Walker, Austin. We need to figure out what we are going to pay Malik and Wolfe in 2016 so my guess is they start this year and get more snaps then previous years.


    Players to be signed in 2016 - Von, Malik, Wolfe, Trev, Brock, Bruton, Clark, CJ (RFA), Marshall (RFA)
    2017 - Vaz

    Like I said there is a commitment to draft picks and UDFAs - (Barrow, Wolfe, Jackson, DT, Green, Sly, Clady, Von, Roby, Harris, Trev Latimer, CJ, Schofield, Garland) - just not the ones people want us to keep.
    Win lose or tie Bronco fan til I die

  7. #202
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    5280
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by oklahomabronco View Post
    We've been one of the most successful teams in the NFL since Manning and the "mercenaries" arrival. We swept the AFC west and are back to back to AFC champions.,..
    If not for massive injuries we best the Seahawks in the SB.
    If Tebow had led us to the last 3 seasons the hero worship would be incredible.,...

    SMELL THE ROSES
    I don't think so regarding the SB. We had an inconsistent defense with a porous backfield. Thankfully we've improved every year this year is probably our best chance in the Manning era to actually win it.

    And yes, you're right about Tebow. I liked him a lot but he really shot himself in the foot neglecting pro-style passing coaching and a pro-style college scheme. He set himself up for NFL failure.

  8. #203
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Laughlin, Nevada
    Posts
    921
    If we used this formula, we would have Jay Cutler receiving the lion share of the cap. This team is built the way it should be.

    There were a lot of little details to the championship team. Elway, TD, Sharpe, Rod smith , and Eddie mac are the ones remembered, but would there have been success without Neil Smith. He came here to get a ring.

    There is not a ring for homegrown effort. These "mercenaries" are not here for money. They are here for a ring.
    Waiting to hear from adoption agency

  9. #204
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,279
    Mercenaries can win, and you can find examples where they have really helped a team - including ours. Heck, without Manning we are a pretty average team. But I do get your point about building and developing your players into a team. I don't remember if it was Parcells or maybe even Lombardi, but I recall one of those blood and guts coaches talking about every play was a good play, but it was about the guys playing together as a unit which built a champion. I don't know if that makes as much sense as it used to with the rule changes, etc, but I also know with the explosion in salaries and the salary cap situation of today, you better develop some draft choices to stars in short order and you have to jettison older, more expensive players at a painful time in their career. Maybe Elway is a genius in addition to being (maybe) the greatest QB of all time, so, I will ride this out with him, but I am really uncomfortable with guys like Ware with huge salary and not really stellar play, and with the age that any injury could be it.
    Here's to the draft and getting our team even stronger and maybe we can part with some of the mercenaries.

    One last point. Would we have been better off keeping Decker and not signing Sanders? I guess most would say, no, but Decker was really a good compliment to DT and as a home grown player it would have felt good to the team spirit and morale to see him stick. I think Sanders is a terrific receiver also, but I think I would rather have Decker just so players could see how to earn a bigger contract.

    If we win the SB this year, this thread will seem like the dumbest of all time. If we lose in embarrassing fashion again, then the thread will be Hamlet.

  10. #205
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,596
    I don't think this thread whether we succeed or fail has much merit after this season. Look at Green Bay as they are exactly what the OP would want for the Broncos. They only have 1 player if I remember right on that roster that was not drafted by the team. Which is fine but since Elway took over the Broncos have had more success than that of the Packers who completely relied on homegrown talent. So if that is the case then the Broncos have shown a better way to go about things. My point is there are more than one way to build a championship caliber team. Look at this past season with the Patriots in they got into a spending war with us and while it didn't quite work out for us it worked out wonderfully for them.

    Now Chop-Block your thoughts on Decker are ones I just can't agree with. Decker wanted to be paid like a #1 receiver and I think most in the league realized he is better as a complimentary piece instead of the main target. So the Broncos went and got Sanders at a much cheaper price and Sanders went out and put up huge numbers compared to Decker with the Jets putting up mediocre numbers. I think the Broncos have shown they are willing to pay a fair price for a player but they are not willing to overspend. Decker if he would have wanted to be paid more like a #2 then he is still with the Broncos but he realized his market was hot and went for the money. I don't blame him for that but I also think it is good management of the team to not overpay all over the place. Quick way to become the Raiders.

    Also have to point out that in the NFL today 90% of team's rosters pretty much becomes a brand new roster about every 4-years. That is not something that is unique to the Broncos. It is just how the NFL functions today with the Salary Cap and Free Agency. Throw in for the Broncos there is a good chance they have 18-20 picks over the next 2 seasons. It just doesn't make sense then to overpay for our own players when we can try to work the draft a lot more than ever before to find great replacements at a fraction of the cost and then only have to pay a handful of super stars.

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