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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by crash123go View Post
    Yeah cause there are Lesean McCoy clones just roaming the streets in packs. Sproles type? There's only one Darren Sproles and everyone has been trying to find the next Sproles since he entered the league.

    Hillman's flashes are too infrequent? He produced 400 yards of total offense in 4 weeks as the starter. Maybe his performance was the coaching staffs fault for not putting him in the games more.

    I really struggle with some people on the boards here. Did you not watch Hillmans starts? He obviously has speed, explosiveness and power to be a contributor on offense plus he provides a element to the offense that None of the other backs do, he's far more explosive in formations that don't yield the best results for the others.
    shirley you jest.

    did he have all that power and speed then his YPC at 4.1 would be higher and his YPC recing would be more than 6.6
    against OAK hardly a defensive stalwart 2.2 and 4.5

    compared to Andersons, 6.9 and 18.3 in the same game.

    I'd guess that his lack of getting yards down the stretch was why Anderson took his spot and ran away with it.,

    Seriously your bromance with Hillman needs to end.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Ball worries me.

    I certainly wouldn't write anyone off so early but with most players you can normally see early if they have something about them...... Ball looked like another big ten plodder... ala Ron Dayne

    Hope I'm wrong
    nothing wrong with those plodders as long as the do not fumble and gain positive yards every touch.

    Certainly better than our supposed "take it to the house guy"

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield View Post
    shirley you jest.

    did he have all that power and speed then his YPC at 4.1 would be higher and his YPC recing would be more than 6.6
    against OAK hardly a defensive stalwart 2.2 and 4.5

    compared to Andersons, 6.9 and 18.3 in the same game.

    I'd guess that his lack of getting yards down the stretch was why Anderson took his spot and ran away with it.,

    Seriously your bromance with Hillman needs to end.
    IIRC, Hillman got hurt in the Raiders game ... his lack of getting yards down the stretch is due to him not playing due to that injury. Once he was relatively healthy Anderson had been on fire and there was no need to change RB's. We will see this TC and preseason, I think Hillman has a role to play within this RB rotation and he is also relatively cheap.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
    IIRC, Hillman got hurt in the Raiders game ... his lack of getting yards down the stretch is due to him not playing due to that injury. Once he was relatively healthy Anderson had been on fire and there was no need to change RB's. We will see this TC and preseason, I think Hillman has a role to play within this RB rotation and he is also relatively cheap.
    his play in week 17. says
    WK Opp Result Rushing Receiving Fumbles
    Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
    17 OAK W 47-14 15 56 3.7 13 0 1 2 2 2 0 --
    vs CJs numbers


    WK Opp Result Rushing Receiving Fumbles
    Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
    17 OAK W 47-14 13 87 6.7 25 3 2 20 10 15 0 1 0
    why y'all have this bromance with this kid is beyond me.

    cutting him saves us 770K this fourth and final year of his contract

    considering all he can "supposedly do is be a COP" guy the 5-10 attempts a game does not justify that price IMO.

    If he was a ST guy then maybe but he does not even do that.

    with the other 5 guys already under contract and probably another 2-3 on or very soon after draft day I see him gone unless someone gets hurt.

  5. #65
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    770,000 isn't squat. He did play well in his starts before his injury ... especially for 770,000. It does not make sense to cut him at this point before seeing how he competes in TC/preseason... he is still young too. No "bromance" just solid reasoning, at this point in time. Its not either/or CJ will be the projected starter.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
    770,000 isn't squat. He did play well in his starts before his injury ... especially for 770,000. It does not make sense to cut him at this point before seeing how he competes in TC/preseason... he is still young too. No "bromance" just solid reasoning, at this point in time. Its not either/or CJ will be the projected starter.
    do you see anywhere in my posts we should cut him today?

    No where have I said that ..

    infact in most of the posts I've said see how the injuries shake out if we have none and the newbies brought in are nothing to write home about then he stays.

    but the idea of him being a workhorse or starting RB is silly given his size and injury history.
    He simply is not a good enough RB as of today to take the job away from CJ, BAll, Thompson, Stewart or maybe even Bibbs.

    770K is another bit to entice a better OC to come to town or ORT, adding it to whatever they already have.

    Plus the odds of Man Ram 3M, Caldwell 1.3m, Cloquit 2.25M, Carter 1.54M, Clark 1.4M all being here day one are slim to none. Start adding those up and you have real money. so Squat added to a couple of those is money.

  7. #67
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    I am not even considering the contract. If you think one of the best reasons to keep Hillman is his low salary then my point has already been made for me.

    I am looking at his production. His impact on the team. Maybe he finally has a breakout year. I am willing to risk he doesn't.

    IMO there can be more of an impact for the team with a rookie. My choice was Duke Johnson. IMO he provides more of an impact as the third RB. Or COP if you like. He is also an accomplished returner. Another value to the team. Adding Johnson adds a missing element and has a more of a chance to show more upside then Hillman has to this point.

    I knew this RB issue was going to be controversial when I made the mock. It always is. We just have different opinions.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    I am not even considering the contract. If you think one of the best reasons to keep Hillman is his low salary then my point has already been made for me.

    I am looking at his production. His impact on the team. Maybe he finally has a breakout year. I am willing to risk he doesn't.

    IMO there can be more of an impact for the team with a rookie. My choice was Duke Johnson. IMO he provides more of an impact as the third RB. Or COP if you like. He is also an accomplished returner. Another value to the team. Adding Johnson adds a missing element and has a more of a chance to show more upside then Hillman has to this point.

    I knew this RB issue was going to be controversial when I made the mock. It always is. We just have different opinions.
    Kubiak has stuck with one guy running the ball for awhile now. How many carries is the third rb really going to get? Would johnson even be the 3rd back with Thompson showing a lot of promise as a bruiser? Steve slaton had nearly 1300 yards under kubiak and he's very similar to Hillman.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Kubiak has stuck with one guy running the ball for awhile now. How many carries is the third rb really going to get? Would johnson even be the 3rd back with Thompson showing a lot of promise as a bruiser? Steve slaton had nearly 1300 yards under kubiak and he's very similar to Hillman.
    Interesting point. Hillman is similar to a lot of players just not as productive as any of them.

    I would counter that Slaton was a tougher runner and pass protector. Rarely went down by arm tackles. He also was a returner. One year he had 39 returns with a 20 yard per average. Thompson is a bruising runner and also plays STs. Both have a bigger impact on a team then Hillman has shown.

    IMO Hillman has to add more to the team in his role. It seems that role confuses some. Most teams, including Kubiak uses a COP or third down RB. Currently that would be Hillman as the complimentary RB on the Bronco roster. The other RBs have different skillsets. We hope they fit and are productive with Kubiak's system. But in reality they are just as much an uncertainty as Hillman.

    Unless he finally has that "breakout year" I keep hearing about, it is time to replace Hillman with a player that actually might. IMO a player like Johnson is a more dynamic runner with return skills. IMO a way to better maximize a role player on the roster. At the very least he contributes the same as Hillman in the COP role. But has the potential to be the return man the Broncos need. Who knows maybe he even turns into that Slaton type runner that so many want Hillman to be.

    Any thoughts on the five defensive players I also had in my mock?

  10. #70
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    amos ive heard has been moving up the board. hardison is good and cox has potential.

    i still say a 7th on kicker is moot. if bonner or varga can be had with one of those picks i would take anyone over a kicker or punter....just personal preference. i would take duke over hillman all day every day. i would rather o line talent but thats okay.
    Last edited by armedequation; 04-13-2015 at 12:48 PM.
    Glen Haven Fire

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Looks pretty good.

    I really like Johnson, just hope he falls to 59. Lamar Miller clone.... who I wanted over Hillman !!

    Jones is a decent value pick. Not the best athlete but a good strong 2 down player inside.

    I like Varga but he looks like more of a RB then a FB to me and I'm not sure we need another back, especially if we get Johnson
    If Johnson really is a Lamar Miller clone, defenses are already foaming at the mouth. Dude can't hold onto the ball.


    If the broncos draft a RB in the first two rounds not named Gurley or Gordon (Which won't happen) I'm going to freak. Not a big enough need, and Kubiak has already proved his system makes chumps look good.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8jacket View Post
    If Johnson really is a Lamar Miller clone, defenses are already foaming at the mouth. Dude can't hold onto the ball.


    If the broncos draft a RB in the first two rounds not named Gurley or Gordon (Which won't happen) I'm going to freak. Not a big enough need, and Kubiak has already proved his system makes chumps look good.
    Not sure you are thinking of the right player. Miller only has 4 fumbles in his career. Miller has less fumbles then Hillman with far less touches.

    In the last 3 years:
    - Hillman 289 touches (pass and rec)/ 6 TDs/5 fumbles
    - Miller 514 touches / 12 TD / 4 fumbles
    - D. Johnson 636 touches (rush/rec/ret) /32 TDs/ 7 fumbles. College stats of course.

    Johnson's scouting comparisons are closer to L. McCoy and Chris Johnson instead of Miller. And if Kubiak can make a chump look good, just imagine how big an impact an elite RB would look.

    Manning using the play action takes on a whole new dimension if the defense actually has to scheme to stop a RB first. Or more 1 on 1 coverage on the WRs because the safety has to stay in the box to stop an explosive RB. I think Anderson may do well in the system as the primary RB but he does not have the explosiveness as a runner I am suggesting as a COP or third down RB. And as I have mentioned too many times, I do not share the confidence in Hillman's development to keep him in that role.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Interesting point. Hillman is similar to a lot of players just not as productive as any of them.

    I would counter that Slaton was a tougher runner and pass protector. Rarely went down by arm tackles. He also was a returner. One year he had 39 returns with a 20 yard per average. Thompson is a bruising runner and also plays STs. Both have a bigger impact on a team then Hillman has shown.

    IMO Hillman has to add more to the team in his role. It seems that role confuses some. Most teams, including Kubiak uses a COP or third down RB. Currently that would be Hillman as the complimentary RB on the Bronco roster. The other RBs have different skillsets. We hope they fit and are productive with Kubiak's system. But in reality they are just as much an uncertainty as Hillman.

    Unless he finally has that "breakout year" I keep hearing about, it is time to replace Hillman with a player that actually might. IMO a player like Johnson is a more dynamic runner with return skills. IMO a way to better maximize a role player on the roster. At the very least he contributes the same as Hillman in the COP role. But has the potential to be the return man the Broncos need. Who knows maybe he even turns into that Slaton type runner that so many want Hillman to be.

    Any thoughts on the five defensive players I also had in my mock?
    Slaton went down just as easy, fumbled just as much if not more, and was worse in pass protection. Kubiak kept foster on the field because he could do it all, he did the same thing once Forsett took that lead back role. Pierce had 90 carries, taliaferro had 60. That's about 9 carries a game between their 2nd and 3rd rb. And I feel like the only reason they got that much was because Forsett isn't the short yardage back. Anderson was our best runner, receiver, and blocker. I don't see him coming off the field much unless he's hurt.

    If we do take a cop back, I'd rather see us go after tevin Coleman who is bigger, faster, and stronger than Johnson and he has more production which elway tends to look for in college players.

    As for the defensive players, I like Amos and hardison. Not high on cox or wagenmann. Cox doesn't show good instincts and his technique needs a lot of work. He has been getting by on his athleticism and he has some character concerns. I like justin Coleman, especially as a slot cb.

  14. #74
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    We don't need to draft a RB ... the best undrafted RB will play for Kubiak/Elway/Dennison and IF we actually need him he will do just fine.


  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
    We don't need to draft a RB ... the best undrafted RB will play for Kubiak/Elway/Dennison and IF we actually need him he will do just fine.

    normally I would say that also. But with 10 picks as we speak there is little doubt in my mind we will use a couple on Rb's,

    Instead of having to negotiate with agents for UDFAs, if we use a couple late late round picks then we have them locked up and less "bonus" money to get them.

    since we have had very good luck in years past going after UDFA RB's I think we lock a couple down with our last few picks.

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