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  1. #1
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    Chargers Draft 2015

    Hello folks,

    It's that time of the year again when the liars take center stage and we inch ever closer to the 2015 NFL draft. I'm glad it's out of New York and I hope they keep it moving around.

    Anyway there's a lot to speculate on this year so lets get started:

    Things the Chargers SHOULD NOT DO:

    1. Trade Phil Rivers on draft day. He has one year left on his contract and is on record as saying:

    "What we've established (in San Diego) with my growing family is hard to re-create. It's hard to up and re-create that. I know that moves are part of life. But that certainty is fair to say that (not being sold on moving to Los Angeles) is part of it. The good thing is I'm not under contract in a year where we'd potentially be in Los Angeles." - Philip Rivers 3/17/15."

    He doesn't want to leave San Diego for LA and anyone who has had to deal with LA traffic totally understands. That said, getting trade value enough to take a stab at whatever QB falls is a really gutsy move. Gutsy and stupid, and frankly whatever team trades for Rivers if they can convince him to stay will be the real winners. The Chargers would have to be nuts to do this but they seem to really really want out of San Diego so imho this is a very real possibility. The other issue is that if Phil Rivers moves out, i think many of our other top players will too (Gates, Weddle).

    2. Draft Todd Gurley at 17. I still hurt from the last time San Diego lost a second round pick to move up and draft an extremely talented RB with an injury history. Trade down and collect a second orthird rounder and selecting Gurley? That's a win, but Gurley straight up at 17 is not something I am comfortable with. At the end of the day I'm a Melvin Gordon fan anyway. It's easy to recall amazing athletes who played RB in college but just can't stay healthy. This is why I'm on the Gordon bandwagon, the Chargers need all the healthy players they can get.

    Chargers needs:
    OL, OLB, ILB

    Chargers wants:
    RB, WR, Secondary, DL

    I know, I know, wants and needs? It may sound silly but I couldn't come up with a better way to describe it.

    OL: The Chargers have done a massive overhaul to their OL and it is something they can nearly be proud of. There's one problem, I have no idea where any of these guys are gonna play aside from Dunlap at LT. Watt is an OG/C and Franklin & Fluker are RT/OG material. I really admire the position that this leaves the Chargers in, being given the luxury of filling in any of the open positions on your line to complete it is a big deal and if they can land a quality player it will pay off in a big way. I worry that the O-Line will be ignored for a want in the draft, as they just brought in Franklin.

    OLB: Dwight Freeney is gone and has taken his fight to Bank of America, Jarret Johnson has retired. That leaves the perma-injured but talented Melvin Ingram, the MIA Jerry Attouchou (sp?) and Tourek Williams. Yeah, OLB is a big need, the sack leader last year if I'm not mistaken was Corey Liuget with 4.5. Call it a hunch, if the Chargers can find someone who give a persistent pass rush they might just also find the pulse on their playoff hopes again. I would be shocked if an OLB is not targeted in the first 3 rounds.

    ILB: I don't know if Bronco fans are aware of just how often the Chargers relied on Reggie Walker, imho it was a fantastic signing for the Broncos as it helps them and hurts the Chargers badly. As we are left with Donald "Just signed big money and now I don't show up" Butler, and Manti "nearly as invisible as my girlfriend T'eo. Given neither of them are known for being healthy, you can see why Walker saw a lot of action and why losing him was a problem. I worry this area will be ignored for a want.

    RB: The Chargers are in a strange place, with the OL improving they are actually in a position to support a talented RB now. I won't turn off the TV and storm out like I did when they drafted Mathews but I cannot take another oft-injured star RB. I just can't, which is why for me the pick is Gordon hands down if they trade back and collect a 2nd or 3rd rounder but either at 17 is a waste imho. I'd have no issues seeing the Chargers play with Oliver, Brown, and Woodhead. RB is a flashy position and if you are trying to generate buzz in a city you are moving to a young star RB could really help you do that.

    WR: Allen, Floyd, and Johnson you could really use one more. I think one will be targeted in round 4-6 unless someone really falls.

    Secondary: Yeah I'm calling out the entire secondary here, CB looks set for a change and there is a player ready to step up for the dismal performances of Marcus Gilchrist. With Jahleel Addae taking over the starting positions are filled but there is little to no depth in the secondary. Eric Weddle wants a ring and could very well leave the Chargers to play for a contender...Damn I can already see him going to the Patriots.

    The DL: The most beautiful positional train-wreck on the team. Liuget can play, he could also disappear here pretty soon. Kendall Reyes, never improved after his rookie year, and NT? The Chargers have opted for a rotation of mediocrity at best. MAJOR help is needed at NT but year after year it goes to late round picks or UDFA. Reyes and Liuget need help to be effective, but they have not gotten help so they remain ineffective.

    This could be a very interesting draft year for the Chargers.

  2. #2
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    ILB is a need? because of butler? i see that as a want, i think we need a RB more than an ILB, we need a home run type RB with speed and durability to play on first and second down.

    i would also put DL before ILB as well as far as immediate need goes. not only could we use a talented NT but reyes needs to not be a starter anymore IMO

    as far as rivers goes, they can either keep him one more year or trade him for a future QB. yes i agree it's risky but if you let rivers walk i hope you are ready for at least one or two bad years until we can get a high enough draft pick to draft another QB that is likely just as risky as drafting mariota.

    if the chargers are hell bent on moving to LA (and it kinda seems like they are) it makes sense to trade him, especially if they think he will just retire if they franchise tag him.

    also, if we drafted a RB #17 and traded for the mariota pick, that would be interesting. i agree about gurley but i would take gordon at #17 and he fits the bill as far as speed goes, which we lack currently. he also doesn't have the durability issues gurley has.

    everything else i pretty much agree with.

  3. #3
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    Looks like a SI insider is saying Rivers and the #17 to Titans for that #2 to get Marcus.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebsoria View Post
    Looks like a SI insider is saying Rivers and the #17 to Titans for that #2 to get Marcus.
    Oh man that would be terrifying, talk about getting fleeced.

    Rivers to Titans for #2 overall and draft pick change is a STEAL!

    Rivers & #17 overall for the #2 ticket for the crud shoot? WOW, that writer has balls I'll give him that.

  5. #5
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    Some recent news (click name for source page):

    Bucky Brooks

    Biggest needs: Running back, offensive line, nose tackle.

    Poised to enter the season with a pedestrian trio of runners (Danny Woodhead, Donald Brown and Branden Oliver), the Chargers should explore adding a legitimate feature back, to offset the pressure on quarterback Philip Rivers to carry the offense -- barring, of course, the unlikely rumors of the Bolts trading Rivers and drafting Marcus Mariota coming to fruition. Wisconsin's Melvin Gordon is a home-run hitter with the vision, balance and body control to handle a heavy workload as an inside-outside runner. He isn't a proven commodity in the passing game, but he flashes the potential to be an effective threat on the perimeter. Georgia's Todd Gurley is a wild card at the position, as he is coming off a torn ACL suffered in November, but he is clearly the top runner in the 2015 class. He would give the Chargers a Marshawn Lynch-like presence to build around. On the offensive line, the team could move D.J. Fluker inside and scoop up a developmental offensive tackle with outstanding athleticism and movement skills. Oregon's Jake Fisher, Pittsburgh's T.J. Clemmings and Miami's Ereck Flowers would be intriguing options at right tackle. Defensively, the need for a big body in the middle could put Texas' Malcom Brown, Florida State's Eddie Goldman and Oklahoma's Jordan Phillips in the conversation.

    Lance Zeirlein

    San Diego Chargers

    Top 5 needs: OL, LB, RB, DL, WR
    No. of selections: 6
    Draft picks: Round 1 (17), Round 2 (48), Round 3 (83), Round 4 (117), Round 5 (153), Round 6 (192)

    Analysis: The Chargers will have to decide if they really want to keep trying to match D.J. Fluker up against NFL speed or if they will look to draft a RT and move Fluker inside to guard. There's a glaring hole at running back in an RB-heavy draft. The Chargers could choose to bring in competition on the defensive line and at inside linebacker. Getting Philip Rivers another WR wouldn't hurt.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddleglum View Post
    Oh man that would be terrifying, talk about getting fleeced.

    Rivers to Titans for #2 overall and draft pick change is a STEAL!

    Rivers & #17 overall for the #2 ticket for the crud shoot? WOW, that writer has balls I'll give him that.
    No kidding!!!! I'll admit, I like Marcus. I don't want to see him in the AFCW or Dallas.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    ILB is a need? because of butler? i see that as a want, i think we need a RB more than an ILB, we need a home run type RB with speed and durability to play on first and second down.
    I have it as a need because of Butler and T'eo's health concerns. With the Broncos scooping up the backup last year in Reggie Walker the Chargers have no depth at all things LB'er. I can see your point in calling it a want, and part of me agrees, but the other part of me really really wants to draft Stephone Anthony sooo...*shrug*. We'll talk RB a bit further down.

    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    i would also put DL before ILB as well as far as immediate need goes. not only could we use a talented NT but reyes needs to not be a starter anymore IMO
    I can get on board with that, but would you rather replace Reyes or go after a legitimate NT? It can be argued either way I just can't stand this replacing "meh" with "fresh meh" every couple of downs. I won't be upset at all if they draft some DL talent, and I'm kind of hoping Danny Shelton is there at 17.

    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    as far as rivers goes, they can either keep him one more year or trade him for a future QB. yes i agree it's risky but if you let rivers walk i hope you are ready for at least one or two bad years until we can get a high enough draft pick to draft another QB that is likely just as risky as drafting mariota.
    https://youtu.be/NewJr7mIrT0

    Look, I get the excitement, I do. However, exchanging an extremely valuable known quantity for the mystery box challenge is not a good deal, it's not even a bad deal, IT'S A HORRIBLE DEAL. In my own head the Chargers would have to trade Rivers for the Titans #2 overall and a 4th rounder this year or a 3rd next year, and I still think they are getting ripped off badly.

    That might be part of the problem though, I think the Titans may feel they have extreme amounts of leverage given Rivers situation. The Chargers themselves may feel it's a use it or lose it moment. In the end though, I think it's a bad idea and I think either Winston or Mariota have a 20% chance to be decent or better at the pro level.

    I will admit I am sentimental when it comes to certain players, and Rivers has become one of those. I want to see him retire as a Charger.

    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    if the chargers are hell bent on moving to LA (and it kinda seems like they are) it makes sense to trade him, especially if they think he will just retire if they franchise tag him.
    I think you hit the nail on the head there.

    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    also, if we drafted a RB #17 and traded for the mariota pick, that would be interesting. i agree about gurley but i would take gordon at #17 and he fits the bill as far as speed goes, which we lack currently. he also doesn't have the durability issues gurley has.
    I'd be a lot more open to a RB if that were the case. I've warmed to selecting an RB at #17, but I'm beginning to think Gurley won't be there. I'd like to trade back and snag some more picks then hope that Gordon or some other prospects are still there but that's my MO at this point. I have RB as a want simply because we already have 3 bodies in the backfield. I'd prefer to take an O-lineman in the 1st round and a RB later, but I've always been a "from the inside out sort of guy."

    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    everything else i pretty much agree with.
    I hope you found it worthwhile, be sure to stop back in to let me know your thoughts on how it all plays out.

  8. #8
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    Well, what and interesting 1st round that turned out to be. When you consider how few trades happened that's really saying something. Here are some of my big take-aways from round 1:

    2 - Mariota and the Titans: I'm surprised the Titans stayed put and made this selection. I think the Titans have a lot of losing to do in them before they rebound and to be perfectly honest I think this selection merely extended that time frame.

    4 - The Raiders & Amari Cooper: Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think the pick is bad, far from it. I'm just so very glad they did not snag Leonard Williams. It is just my opinion but I think more can be done to counter a passing game than a dominant D-Line.

    6 - The Jets & Williams: That D-Line is gonna be potent, good luck Tom. I love teams that go BPA.

    10 - The Rams & Todd Gurley: I consider this pick a reach, not just because I'm not a fan of 1st round RB's but because of the players' health and situation in SL/LA. I don't think this team has the O-Line or QB to help support the kind of RB they are hoping they drafted. Then there's playing in a division so laden with really good defenses that it hurts just thinking about the folks he'll be up against. I also don't think he'll be able to stay healthy, and he'll look very much like Ryan Mathews 1.7 just with fewer fumbles.

    15 - Chargers & Melvin Gordon: I didn't like the thought of spending pick 17 on a RB let alone Pick 17, our 4th rounder from this year and a 5th rounder from the next year. The 49ers caught the Chargers with their pants down and they knew it, hence the king's ransom to move up 2 spots. I like that's he's a clean prospect (drugs/physical abuse/character flags) he is physically gifted there's no denying that but most importantly he's healthy. Charger fans were spoiled under LT, the guy RARELY fumbled or was hurt and I took it for granted. Then along comes Mathews, a fantastic RB...When he's not hurt or fumbling...which wasn't nearly often enough considering it cost a 1st and a 2nd to get him. If Gordon can stay healthy and pans out at even "above average" the Chargers did well. Getting a STABLE & EFFECTIVE running game would be huge for the Chargers. I think the Chargers have some ridiculous winning % when there is a 100+ yard rusher, but stats never tell the whole story. What don't I like about the kid? Much has been made of a lack receptions, that inexperience can and will be a problem. Others say he is not a 3-down back, while few are these days when you are spending a 1st rounder that pick needs to be there on every snap. However, I respect any GM willing to go "all in" on a player. I still want the more help on the O-Line but I think the Chargers are capable of supporting a RB to a high level right now. Time will tell as to how this plays out. In the end I am ambivalent in regards to Gordon, I think he has less bust potential than Gurley but that's just because of a track record of health.

    TL;DR: "meh"

    18 - Chiefs & Marcus Peters: Could be great, could be crud. I've never been good at judging corners.

    22 - Steelers & Dupree: Why do I have a worrying feeling that the Steelers just found themselves another star on defense? The football gods love that town, must be a kind of apology for anyone who has to live there.

    23 - Broncos & Ray: Lets start with the bad, the Broncos had to give up two 5th rounders (this year and next) as well as Manny Ramirez to move up and snag Shane Ray. Giving up picks is always painful, but it's the draft and they were 5th rounders so it was a long shot anyway. From what I've ready Manny was likely to be a cap casualty regardless but if there is one thing I've learned from the Chargers the past couple of years is never skimp on the depth of linemen for your star QB. The Broncos also drafted a dude with an herb problem in a city where the junk is somehow legal. Foot injuries can linger (see: Gates, Antonio), but who knows how bad it will be until game day. Now for the good, if the Chargers had snagged Ray at 17, I'd have been fine with that. I think the kid can play, is he a bit undersized for a 3-4 OLB? Sure, but that never stopped Melvin Ingram from making our defense substantially more imposing whenever he is healthy enough to play. Wade Phillips getting his hands on a talent like Shane Ray concerns me greatly. As far as pot goes, after Von Miller and it being legalized the Broncos should have some experts in the organization to help with this. As I said above I respect GM's really investing in a player, and lets face it, you can never have too many talented pass-rushers these days.

    28 - Lions & Tomlinson: Love the player

    31- Saints & Anthony: I love hard hitting LB's and I think the Saints snagged a stud here.

    32- Patriots & Whoever: I'm still floored they didn't trade down, must not have received any decent offers....or any for that matter.

    There are some considerable talents still available imho, it will be fascinating to see what happens with Collins x3, Landry etc. tomorrow.

  9. #9
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    I'm not going to lie, the Chargers need some help from the football gods here. Teams need to start reaching for some prime players to fall.

    I'd love to see: Eddie Goldman, Jake Fisher, Eli Harold fall to the Chargers. If they go with Goldman or Harold in round 2, I'd love taking La'el Collins in the 3rd if the due diligence pans out.

  10. #10
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    Perryman? I thought we traded away our 4th rounder...aaaand the drinking begins.

    It had all come together, the football gods were smiling on San Diego and the Chargers still manage to screw it up... Did AJ return to the Chargers and I didn't notice?
    Last edited by Puddleglum; 05-01-2015 at 05:42 PM. Reason: An ocean of sadness whose fathoms hide all light

  11. #11
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    Get La'el Collins in the 3rd and I can get behind this draft...Here's to hoping he's innocent and not a murderer most heinous.

  12. #12
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    *facepalm*

    Wow, AJ Smith somehow made it back into that building.

  13. #13
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    15. Melvin Gordon, RB

    The Good: A player with top tier physical tools and a history of health who is capable of drastically changing how the Chargers offense operates.

    The Bad: The value of this pick will be hotly contested until the end of his first year (assuming he plays). Not only did the Chargers use a 1st rounder on a RB they traded away a 4th and a 5th to go get him which plays out in a big way later on as the Chargers did not have enough picks to address areas of need. While I believe the Chargers are in a better situation to service a RB than the Rams I would not call the Chargers’ O-line anything above decent (To be fair this is pre-Franklin) the last time we saw them in action Philip Rivers was sacked 7 times with the playoffs on the line. I like the player, and I liked him more than Gurley for more than just because his ACL’s are still intact. Regardless, the Chargers had a lot of holes and they used up a LOT of hole sealer on RB.

    The Verdict: If this pick was backed up with an OT in round 2 (Jake Fisher) I would have been thrilled. As it stands it’s a huge gamble, and I’m not happy with it. On the bright side, Gordon will be given every opportunity to prove himself, and GM Tom Telesco has done fairly well when it comes to drafting RB’s. I liked Grice and I hope Oliver stays around. Most of the talking heads like the pick but argue over the trade value.

    48. Denzel Perryman, ILB

    The Good: Denzel Perryman, to me Denzel Perryman embodies this draft for the Chargers. No, I’m not talking about the hammer in the Charger draft room symbolism bull that’s puked all over twitter. It’s about players that I do or want to like but were selected when we have so many other needs. I like Denzel Perryman, I like his attitude and I like the way he plays. Coming from a proud school, I hope that the Miami LB heritage means something to him. I’ve said it before I love a tackling machine, and that’s what Perryman is. Some would even say the value is there for this guy too, the talking heads routinely gush over this guy. After looking at him more I can see why the kid is liked, and in a division with Jamaal Charles he is certainly needed. One thing to keep in mind is that this kid gets put under Mike Nolan’s department and I think that could be vital in Perryman’s development.

    The Bad: To me, it’s shades of Stephen Cooper all over again. Now I realize Cooper was never the thumper this kid is (Cooper was 2 inches taller) but it’s the same knocks. Too short, too slow, two downs. Instinct helps, it does, but it can only do so much. To me the 2nd round is about grabbing someone with the physical tools to be great but that you can coach up. I hope I’m wrong but this isn’t college anymore everyone is bigger, stronger, and faster and I see this kid having a big uphill battle. We could talk value all day but unless the Chargers are seeing this kid start, why draft him? I know we needed depth at ILB, but not a 2nd rounder.

    The Verdict: If there’s one thing I’ve noticed about Telesco it’s that he loves his high picks to be really, really passionate people. He found one here, again I like the player but I see him in the draft haul and I get the feeling I’m looking at the wrong team’s draft. No matter how I try I cannot get on board with this selection. However, this pick also has the greatest ability to surprise me, because honestly my expectations for him were set by Jonas Mouton.

    83. Craig Mager, CB

    The Good: He has the physical tools to play CB in the NFL. He is extremely passionate, driven, and loves to tackle. Physically, I think he is capable of playing multiple positions in the secondary.

    The Bad: Low level competition means little experience and will make a huge change in difficulty even harder. I wouldn’t quite say he is a project (to me a project requires physical AND mental maturation), but the kid lacks the experience that I think a pick in the top 3 rounds should have. There is no value here, especially when there were so many good players still on the board.

    The Verdict: Here’s where it gets tough, this kids’ story alone I’m glad some team drafted him. If there is anyone capable of flipping my thinking on this pick into the garbage bin it’s people who have the kind of drive this young man has. The Chargers needed depth in the secondary and they got it, but the kid was a reach in my opinion. I hope to see him often in preseason, and here’s to hoping the Chargers’ scouts did something impressive.

    153. Kyle Emanuel, OLB

    The Good: Highly productive while providing pressure from different stances should make his transition to OLB easier. High motor/effort kind of guy and depending on who you ask is nice value in the 5th round. Has the physical tools to play in the NFL, and was thought of highly for a small school prospect by the talking heads. He also will be in the care of Mike Nolan.

    The Bad: Low level competition means low levels of experience at high levels from which to draw upon. You could fixate on his 31 inch arms, I’ve seen too many good “too-short/small” pass rushers do well.

    The Verdict: It’s an area of great need, but he is a true project. I expect him to make the team, anything more than that is gravy. I’m also willing to bet he will see extensive playing time this year (5+ games) due to injures to the starters. Shame Jarret Johnson retired, I think this kid could have learned a good deal.

    192. Darius Philon, DT

    The Good: Physically when I looked at Philon he reminded me a bit of Corey Liuget in height/weight so I compared the two in the combine drills. There is a lot to like about the way he moves, he was up against good competition and performed well. He is noted for being able to provide good penetration, and I can agree with that.

    The Bad: While there was a lot to like about him combine tape there was a lot to dislike as well. He may have the frame of 3rd rounder he has the footwork of a 6th rounder. The guy is not a fluid mover like Liuget was and coming out of school really early and really raw. Some profiles have him as a 4-3 DT solely, and tend to say things like “needs to add bulk.” I think Philon is a true project, and has a better than high chance to land on a practice squad somewhere.

    The Verdict: In the 6th round I think there is some serious value here, mostly because I think the floor will keep rising for this kid as he gets into NFL quality exercising. I think the reason he was there in the 6th is purely because this bun isn’t done baking and no one wanted to take a chance when he doesn’t have the premier physical tools desired in a 3-4DE/4-3DT. As to people seeing him as a 4-3DT only (though if this means the Chargers are going to a 4-3 I will be so incredibly happy), that doesn’t bother me I can totally see him as a 3-4DE once he bulks up as the Chargers like their DE’s to be so large it’s hard to distinguish them from the Chargers NT’s who I always think are about 30-40 lbs. light.

    Draft Grade: C-

    Not solidifying the O-line I think will prove to be a vital mistake, and frankly soul-crushingly stupid when you keep in mind some of the pass rushing phenoms in the AFC West. Combine that with developmental players and projects and part of me can't help but feel that maybe C- is being generous. What's even more confusing is that actually like the kids that were drafted, but I just cannot seem to get behind this draft. I hope the Chargers prove me wrong.

    Please do comment with your thoughts on the Chargers as well as your own teams' draft. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
    Last edited by Puddleglum; 05-03-2015 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Wording

  14. #14
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    In the grand scheme of things maybe I should change it to an A+ simply for not trading Rivers.

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    I would have given you guys a solid B.

    Mager pick was a big WTH? beyond that however, you guys had a pretty solid draft. I don't agree with trading up for Gordon, but w/e.

    You guys did outstanding in the second half of the draft getting a lot of highly productive players at a value.

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