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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    I know what you are trying to say but she has been trying to have her voice heard for 3 years now. I think the timing is perfect for her. The timing is always right for people to get justice in whatever they can.

    Really, I could care less about how it hurts his draft status or not.
    So you're saying that even if he is innocent you don't care if a very important time in his life is tarnished. This would not be the first case of a person lying for money. With that said if he did it I hope he gets hammered.
    Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Nope, I don't care about him at all really. Can't stand the guy actually. If he did it, then he is also not the first person who actually sexually assaulted someone and got away with it. It works both ways. So please tell me how his life has been tarnished. People in the NFL knew this was coming. They already expected it. He'll still be the number 1 or number 2 draft pick. Nothing will change that. He'll still be an NFL QB. What will change? Nothing.
    For one his reputation would be damaged, these kinds of allegations stick around even when acquitted. He would to have to go through a very stressful situation for no reason at all except one woman's greed or whatever reasoning she would have to lie.

    By reading some of your other posts it sounds like you work in this field which is pretty scary considering your reply to me. It seems you have some hate towards men and don't care to learn the facts before destroying their lives. Many men don't have the resources that Jamis Winston has and as a result they get railroaded even when innocent. IMO they need to start locking up some of these "victims" that get caught lying. It's disgusting behavior and creates doubt that results in true victims never getting any justice.

  3. #18
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    Nope, I don't care about him at all really. Can't stand the guy actually. If he did it, then he is also not the first person who actually sexually assaulted someone and got away with it. It works both ways.

    So please tell me how his life has been tarnished. People in the NFL knew this was coming. They already expected it. He'll still be the number 1 or number 2 draft pick. Nothing will change that. He'll still be an NFL QB. What will change? Nothing.
    Last edited by broncoslover115; 04-17-2015 at 04:03 PM.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
    For one his reputation would be damaged, these kinds of allegations stick around even when acquitted. He would to have to go through a very stressful situation for no reason at all except one woman's greed or whatever reasoning she would have to lie.

    By reading some of your other posts it sounds like you work in this field which is pretty scary considering your reply to me. It seems you have some hate towards men and don't care to learn the facts before destroying their lives. Many men don't have the resources that Jamis Winston has and as a result they get railroaded even when innocent. IMO they need to start locking up some of these "victims" that get caught lying. It's disgusting behavior and creates doubt that results in true victims never getting any justice.
    You have no idea who I am and what I think about men. I don't harbor any hatred towards men whatsoever. Most men are wonderful people. So, stop it and get off that crap. Don't insult the work I do and make it trivial by pinning it a hatred toward men because it is just plain wrong. If you know the work I do, you would know that a good many men are also survivors of sexual abuse and I work with them as well.

    I am not destroying any lives because I could care less about Jameis Winston. I don't care about him because he is a self-absorbed, entitled, immature person. How am I destroying lives? Because I don't like the kid?

    I understand full well that there are people who lie about sexual assault for money. I get it. And I understand that there are men who actually commit sexual assault and get away with it. It works both ways. My not caring about Winston is not indicative of my attitude toward men in general. It has to do with him and his past behavior in a whole lot of ways.

    There are MANY people who are concerned about his past behavior, not just me.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    You have no idea who I am and what I think about men. I don't harbor any hatred towards men whatsoever. Most men are wonderful people. So, stop it and get off that crap. Don't insult the work I do and make it trivial by pinning it a hatred toward men because it is just plain wrong. If you know the work I do, you would know that a good many men are also survivors of sexual abuse and I work with them as well.

    I am not destroying any lives because I could care less about Jameis Winston. I don't care about him because he is a self-absorbed, entitled, immature person. How am I destroying lives? Because I don't like the kid?

    I understand full well that there are people who lie about sexual assault for money. I get it. And I understand that there are men who actually commit sexual assault and get away with it. It works both ways. My not caring about Winston is not indicative of my attitude toward men in general. It has to do with him and his past behavior in a whole lot of ways.

    There are MANY people who are concerned about his past behavior, not just me.
    My exact question to you was if you would care if he went through all of this needlessly, as in he was proven innocent. Your reply was no, you don't care about him at all and that you can't stand him. That is a pretty clear answer. Those that are falsely accused are victimized as well. Working in that field, one of which I have worked in before, with that kind of attitude is disturbing.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Nope, I don't care about him at all really. Can't stand the guy actually. If he did it, then he is also not the first person who actually sexually assaulted someone and got away with it. It works both ways.

    So please tell me how his life has been tarnished. People in the NFL knew this was coming. They already expected it. He'll still be the number 1 or number 2 draft pick. Nothing will change that. He'll still be an NFL QB. What will change? Nothing.
    It is likely true that this allegation won't effect his draft status, because people in the NFL are already aware of the allegation, and likely have been for awhile. However, if people decide not to draft him because he 'might' be a rapist, that is effecting his life. Every NFL player might be a rapist, every poster on here might be as well. It is very hard to prove you didn't do something, so that's why the mentality of 'if he is accused of it, unless he proves he didn't do it, punish him' mind set can be dangerous.

    I don't think you think that way, and I think a lot of people don't like the sound of that when they hear it said that way, however that does at times seem to be the way a lot of people think.

    Until it's proven someone did a crime, they shouldn't be punished, I don't just mean criminally. If your life is hindered in other ways, that is a bad thing as well. The only things that I think it's reasonable to make the accused deal with, are things that are either based on a-the safety of the accuser/alleged victim or b-things that pertain to the investigation.

    Whether or not a guy can still play football pertains to neither one of those things, therefore no accusation should effect whether a guy gets to play imo, until there is sufficient evidence of their guilt. If perhaps the accuser somehow works where the accused does, they should maybe have extra security there, and do what they can to try and keep the 2 from encountering each other. However, terminating them on some moral ground because they MIGHT be guilty, isn't something I approve of, and is in an of itself imo, immoral.

    For the accusation to not hinder someones' life, people would need to approach things with an 'innocent until proven guilty' mind set. I think sometimes people get so caught up in making sure celebrities/rich people get held accountable, that they may forget about making sure they even did what they were accused of.

    It is key to stay objective, and try to avoid 'confirmation bias' when it comes to punishing someone. You can believe whatever you want about a case, however when you punish someone due to that view, it is different. That is why I hate vigilantes who act based on an assumption when they don't know what really happened. In truth, I have more comtempt for them than someone who beats someone up in a mugging, because while I don't like the mugger either, at least the mugger doesn't likely carry themselves with what I think is a false sense of righteousness in their actions.

    I understand you aren't a vigilante, and probably don't condone vigilantism either, however I felt I should throw that in because it shows a potential consequence of punishing someone before you know if they are guilty.

    I realize that trying to make it so less people get away with rapes should be a priority as well, however I think we should look for ways to do that that don't increase the odds of an innocent person being punished.
    Last edited by fallforward3y+; 04-17-2015 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
    My exact question to you was if you would care if he went through all of this needlessly, as in he was proven innocent. Your reply was no, you don't care about him at all and that you can't stand him. That is a pretty clear answer. Those that are falsely accused are victimized as well. Working in that field, one of which I have worked in before, with that kind of attitude is disturbing.
    OK, let me clarify then. I think I was responding as if you asked two separate questions. Let me separate them. About the case...If he is innocent, then I hope he is found to be innocent and that this suit is thrown out. He shouldn't have to go through that.

    As a person...I don't care about him as a person. I don't like him. I don't like his self-absorbed, self-entitlement. I don't have to like him. I can't stand him. So, perhaps I could have been clearer. I answered my personal feelings about him in regards to the case. I hope that clarifies things.

    Now, you are correct. Those that are falsely accused are victimized as well. And, it's a terrible thing. It shouldn't happen but it does. And, as I said, it also goes the other way where people commit sexual assault and get away with it as well. So, I just wanted to put that out there too. That seems to always be forgotten in these conversations.

    And as a rape counselor, I do feel that I want to bring the voice of the victim into these conversations. I want to remind people, if he isn't innocent, then the timing is right for her. She has been trying to have her voice heard for 3 years, this is her last remedy. I know people get pissed sometimes that I hold the victim's voice in these conversations. But I feel it is important. I know I'm biased that way. But when things like this come up and all I read is how terrible the timing is for him, yeah, I get annoyed. So, I respond that there are two people in this conversation. It's not all about him and how terrible it is for him. If he did it, then it was also terrible for her. I just want to remind folks about that.

    And please, don't ever reduce my work with victims to being about hating men. It makes my work trivial. And it couldn't be further from the truth.
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  8. #23
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    I meant in no way to minimize what you do into a byproduct of hating men. I felt as if your response warranted the question, although I probably worded too much like an accusation for which I apologize.

    As far as Winston himself, I think your assessment of his character is fair. I don't not care for him as well. However, that has little to do with the situation.

    I can certainly understand why it would be frustrating for you to hear things about this being inconvenient for him. However, if he is innocent, then it is far from inconvenient. She will walk with a slap on the wrist and it will still follow him, it always does.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
    Do you mean that they think his celebrity status will make it far too difficult to ever convict him, or more so that they feel it's out of their league, and that they wouldn't be able to get a conviction if they tried? If they think that, I think the Aaron Hernandez case should perhaps give them confidence that they'd be able to convict a celebrity.
    there is a WORLD of difference between AH case in the north east and this kids in Florida.

    there was overwhelming evidence in the former and he said, she said in the latter.

    not even mentioning he is s super star in Florida in college. Where college football is king.

    not saying it is the right thing, just that is how it is.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruksak View Post
    Well....it's a good thing she wasn't "assaulted" by a poor man, then there would be no justice at all.
    had she reported it to the police then the poor man probably would have been convicted.

  11. #26
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    Unfortunate that I think Tampa will draft him.

    I adopted Tampa as my "2nd" NFL team. I won't be watching if that guy is it. Ecch.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield View Post
    had she reported it to the police then the poor man probably would have been convicted.
    She did report it to the police, I believe the night it allegedly happened. She also reported to the college. No one took her claims seriously. Her filing a civil suit is her last remedy and course of action. Several people assume she is doing this just for money. Maybe. Well, she exhausted her other options so she is taking the last option available to her. So would I and so would most people in this same situation.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    She did report it to the police, I believe the night it allegedly happened. She also reported to the college. No one took her claims seriously. Her filing a civil suit is her last remedy and course of action. Several people assume she is doing this just for money. Maybe. Well, she exhausted her other options so she is taking the last option available to her. So would I and so would most people in this same situation.
    In this particular situation, I do see plenty of reason other than the money to go forward with a law suit. Whenever there is a motive of money, there is good reason to question a law suit imo, however in this situation it seems like the criminal avenue wasn't working out for her.

    Because she tried the criminal avenue first, and didn't go for a law suit until after trying those options and it not working out, I doubt she is doing this for the money. It could be the case, however personally I doubt it.

    The way you say college sexual assaults are handled sounds disturbing. It sounds like they want to protect themselves from law suits, which is understandable, but doesn't justify that kind of mishandling of sexual assault allegations. It's unfair to sue the school just because something happens to you on school grounds imo, however if the school mishandles your allegation, that is worthy of a law suit imo.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield View Post
    there is a WORLD of difference between AH case in the north east and this kids in Florida.

    there was overwhelming evidence in the former and he said, she said in the latter.

    not even mentioning he is s super star in Florida in college. Where college football is king.

    not saying it is the right thing, just that is how it is.
    You do have a point, and it's a shame if a case gets overlooked because the accused is someone people admire. Hoping they didn't do it is ok with me, however ignoring the case due to hoping they didn't do it is not ok with me. The case should be investigated like any other, and if there is sufficient evidence of their guilt, put them in jail.

    If one of my favorite players got convicted of a rape they did commit, then sure I'd be bummed about how it may hurt their team or not getting to watch them play, however if they did in fact commit it, I would feel they deserved what they got, and that it would be wrong not to punish them.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
    You do have a point, and it's a shame if a case gets overlooked because the accused is someone people admire. Hoping they didn't do it is ok with me, however ignoring the case due to hoping they didn't do it is not ok with me. The case should be investigated like any other, and if there is sufficient evidence of their guilt, put them in jail.

    If one of my favorite players got convicted of a rape they did commit, then sure I'd be bummed about how it may hurt their team or not getting to watch them play, however if they did in fact commit it, I would feel they deserved what they got, and that it would be wrong not to punish them.
    In some states or areas it is not admiration but they are bonafide heroes. I have to wonder if this gal would have even went out or hooked up with him IF he was not the stud QB that just won the Heisman.

    there are loads of gold diggers that only date the star players hoping for a long term commitment.

    not saying she is one as I know very little about the case other than it sounds like a he said, she said deal.

    I also know that super stars feel entitled because of the hero worship that happens in many areas, so it is just as likely he did rape the girl.

    But again unless it is on tape, odds are the star is going to get away with little or no consequences.

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