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  1. #46
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    Jul 2008
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    Manning hasn't looked like an NFL quarterback since week seven of 2014. He doesn't give us the best chance to win no matter how healthy he gets.

    If a player with Manning's current skill set were draft eligible they would not be selected. Think Kellen Moore.

  2. #47
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis.1960 View Post
    IMO, Manning will not regain sufficient health to return this season. Remember Ryan Clady also had a plantar fascia injury about 3 years ago and it seemed to take months and months for him to just return to the practice field let alone start...and he was not 39 years old! I think Koob is just gaming the media by repeatedly stating Peyton is our guy and will be back starting when healthy...I don't believe we'll see Peyton playing in another Bronco game again
    But Eli Manning had it a few years ago and played through it all season long without his performance suffering. There are variable levels of pain and severity with this condition. So who knows how bad Peyton's is. He's nursing a rib injury too though, or was.

  3. #48
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    Feb 2007
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    I say use Brock through the first half of the Super Bowl game, then in the second half bring in Manning and let the defense win us the game.

    or

    If we get ahead and lock the #1 seed we let Peyton play in the SD game.

    or

    Maybe the receivers need to consistently catch Brocks throws!

  4. #49
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    Mar 2008
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    6,328
    Quote Originally Posted by $Broncos$ View Post
    Brock has shown promise but our Defense is still carrying us.
    Which is why it doesn't make sense to sit Osweiler back down. Points per game are up, rushing yards are up, and just playing all round better football is up.

    Quote Originally Posted by $Broncos$ View Post
    Our run game is looking better but lets face it we cannot win football game scoring 20- pts.
    The Broncos have averaged 17 points per game this season when Manning has been the starter, when only taking offensive touchdowns and field goals into account. Remember how bad Orton was playing when he was benched in favour of Tebow? Well I hate to say it, but Manning has been far worse statistically, as well as looking far worse when it comes to the good old fashioned eye test.

  5. #50
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    Nov 2014
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    1,481
    Quote Originally Posted by cmc0605 View Post
    Because of more attempts, not a statistically significance change in yards per attempt.
    Then that's on Peyton. He had the choice to run or pass at the line of scrimmage.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Minnesota
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    804
    It's like this. Dad (Manning) could drive the family car with an automatic transmission. In fact he was one of the best drivers to ever drive an automatic. Recently the family car with the automatic transmission was sold to a guy from Chicago and the family purchased a new car with a manual transmission. Dad (Manning) struggles driving the stick shift. He can drive it, but it jerks and grinds and the drive is rough. Meanwhile, the son (Brock) has no problem driving a stick shift. He's able to shift the gears with no problem. Thus the car drives much better.
    If you love NFL stats and history
    pro-football-reference.com
    jt-sw.com/football

  7. #52
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    Aug 2012
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    Ontario, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by LynchMobster View Post
    But Eli Manning had it a few years ago and played through it all season long without his performance suffering. There are variable levels of pain and severity with this condition. So who knows how bad Peyton's is. He's nursing a rib injury too though, or was.
    Eli was not 39 years old when he was hurt. We are also taking about two injuries which from my reading are almost always issues for long periods of time due to where they are in the body....These guys are getting hit hard by very well built top notch athletes. Ribs are treated a lot like soft tissue and can take years to fully heal depending on if they are broken badly or just bruised. The placement of these injuries is also telling. These are areas which are guaranteed ot get usage in football.

  8. #53
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    Eli was not 39 years old when he was hurt. We are also taking about two injuries which from my reading are almost always issues for long periods of time due to where they are in the body....These guys are getting hit hard by very well built top notch athletes. Ribs are treated a lot like soft tissue and can take years to fully heal depending on if they are broken badly or just bruised. The placement of these injuries is also telling. These are areas which are guaranteed ot get usage in football.
    The point stands that it's the type of injury that will vary in severity from case to case, so it's not a given that he's out for the rest of the season/postseason. If they thought so, they would be stating that Brock is the starter for the rest of the season instead this week-by-week basis, and Peyton wouldn't bother working out and practicing at the facility.

    Peyton Manning set to begin on-field workouts for Broncos

  9. #54
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    Jan 2007
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    Derby, Kansas, United States
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc0605 View Post
    Because of more attempts, not a statistically significance change in yards per attempt.
    Yaa....but it's not...

    CJ with Manning 3.13 YPC
    CJ with Brock 5.72 YPC

    Ronnie with Manning 3.37 YPC
    Ronnie with Brock 3.95

    There is a statistical difference between the two backs with and without Manning. Granted it's lower with Hillman, but it's still an increase.

    Both top backs combined under
    Manning 3.25
    Brock 4.83

    That's a difference of 1.58 YPC. That's statistically significant there bud...Hate to break that to you. That's not taking into account the increased attempts which further cause a gap between the two...

    Now lets compare YPG which would take into account YPC and attempts.

    Anderson with
    Manning 35
    Brock 55.75

    Hillman with
    Manning 41.23
    Brock 64.75

    Combined
    Manning 38.115
    Brock 60.25

    Now those are ONLY looking at the top two backs...There's a statistical difference that isn't easy to just brush under the rug like you want to...

    You often state you want us to reply to you with facts and details, hows that?


    Oh one last interesting statistic CJ is averaging LESS carries with Brock than he had with Manning...There's that to consider as well. He was averaging just over 10 carries per game with Manning and is averaging 9 per game with Brock.

    Hillman averaged 10.22 carries per game with Manning. 17 since.

    What all of these stats should really tell us? CJ is far more effective with Brock and needs some more freaking carries (like the vast majority of them) and Hillman needs scaled back.
    Last edited by Freyaka; 12-08-2015 at 01:23 PM.


  10. #55
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    Jul 2005
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    Highlands Ranch
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    1,547
    Kubiak's offensive system is predicated on the effectiveness of the run game. For the run game to be most effective, the QB must be under center. Manning does not play well under center. As a result, if/when Manning comes back, the running game will see a decline once more. If it's your hope that Manning returns and your conviction that Manning gives us the best chance to win, you best hope he is able to carry the load without an effective running game, and that he does not fall back in to a pattern of throwing multiple INT's a game.

  11. #56
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    Nov 2015
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    743
    Quote Originally Posted by $Broncos$ View Post
    Brock has shown promise but our Defense is still carrying us. Our run game is looking better but lets face it we cannot win football game scoring 20- pts. Manning is our only chance of actually scoring pts when hes healthy. Lets ride Brock IMO until Peyton is healthy and let him play unless Brock shows us different in the next two weeks. Our RBs will at least have confidence when Manning comes in. Our offense line needs some work though, I cannot believe how bad we are at protecting out qb.
    One of the greatest offenses in the history of the NFL (2013 Broncos) lost the SB by only scoring 8pts. Dont give me that garbage that we cant win games without scoring 20+ points.

    this topic is dumb

  12. #57
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    Nov 2013
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    Spokane, WA
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    I still find the offense to be stagnant. we just don't put points on the board. Maybe that is Kubiak's plan, but we won't win in the playoffs without being able to score more and put more points on the board. The defense is very good maybe even great, but we still need more from the offense period to be successful post season. Not a crack on Brock or a ding on Manning more of a complaint about Kubiak. All we heard about is how much better we would be with Kubiak and I just haven't seen it. Imagine this defense today with the 2013 offense, now that is a team that would get to and win the super bowl. Gase and Wade would have been quite a combo.

  13. #58
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    Feb 2008
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    4,421
    Quote Originally Posted by NachoJuice View Post
    I was definitely not impressed with Oz's performance against the chargers and anyone who was needs to slap themselves and re-watch the game, he threw a terrible pick on a jump ball to sanders (who throws a jump ball to sanders??) and nearly got picked off on a throw directly to a chargers player. Being critical of Oz doesn't mean I think Manning gives us the best chance to win but if his play continues at the rate it did against a pathetic chargers defense I'd have no issue putting Manning back in when we face defenses who are much better especially if a first round bye was on the line.
    Manning plenty times

  14. #59
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by trc1962 View Post
    I still find the offense to be stagnant. we just don't put points on the board. Maybe that is Kubiak's plan, but we won't win in the playoffs without being able to score more and put more points on the board. The defense is very good maybe even great, but we still need more from the offense period to be successful post season. Not a crack on Brock or a ding on Manning more of a complaint about Kubiak. All we heard about is how much better we would be with Kubiak and I just haven't seen it. Imagine this defense today with the 2013 offense, now that is a team that would get to and win the super bowl. Gase and Wade would have been quite a combo.
    And that offense would still get mauled by the Seahawks D. Even if our D shuts their O out, their D and ST outscored our O. The answer is not the the finesse spread O, or Gase's playcalling of continuous bubble screens which had most of us completely fed up. What Kubiak is running is, at its core, what Shanahan ran and we won a couple of SB's with it. It just requires a better O-line, and more experience at the QB position. Kubes offense put up 31 pts last January in Foxboro with Flacco.

    As Brock learns more, it will get better. If we can get this O-line to pass block better, it will help. I'm sure it will be better next season. It just requires patience from a fanbase that wants lots of stylepoints right now and worries that we will need those in the playoffs.

  15. #60
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    Dec 2003
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    NJ
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    If our defense gives up less points than our offense scores, what does it matter how many points we score? Why do we "need" to score more points? If we need to score 30+, that means our defense is giving up 29+. And THAT's not going to win many playoff games. But if our defense is giving up less than 14, we only need to score 15+ to win. THAT's going to win a lot of playoff games.

    Winning a game 17-3, is very tough. It not only means the defense is suffocating the opposing offense, but it also means that we are milking huge amounts of clock. And while every drive may not end in a score, we are winning the field position battle. Putting stress on THEIR offense to put together a long scoring drive against our defense.

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