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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    So it's Brock's fault that the defense bailed Manning out, but not him...Do you realize just how dumb that sounds?
    Your mind is made up..we can go around and around about this. Peyton has proven himself many times over if that wasn't enough to make you happy then ok..I hope for you that Kubiak turns out to be everything you want and that his first 9 years as a HC was just a fluke. Maybe Kubak is right on not having to make adjustments during a game, or 0 points scored in the 2nd half really wins games and not being able to score in the red zone.. maybe that will bring much more success then Peyton brought.. I don't know. But as for me I will stick with what I already know to be a success. for 17 years.
    Last edited by Chrissy; 12-27-2015 at 07:47 PM.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Your mind is made up..we can go around and around about this. Peyton has proven himself many times over if that wasn't enough to make you happy then ok..I hope for you that Kubiak turns out to be everything you want and that his first 9 years as a HC was just a fluke. Maybe Kubak is right on not having to make adjustments during a game and not being able to score in the red zone.. maybe that will bring much more success then Peyton brought.. I don't know. But as for me I will stick with what I already know to be cuccess.
    Kubiak has brought us plenty of success as an OC. He's had a decent HC career with a crappy team. I have enough faith to give him more than one year with a QB playing at the lowest level of his career...I'll be here next year cheering just as loudly as I have for the rest of my life.


  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmedai View Post
    You're right, PM hasn't played well this season. I can't argue that. Despite that fact, I am not convinced Osweiler is ready to take us all the way yet. Osweiler may not have turned the ball over like Manning has, but it hasn't been all sunshine and rainbows either with him at the helm. You mention consistency...I don't believe there has been much consistency at all in the second half of some of these games.

    The only thing I can argue is that PM had been playing hurt and in a new offensive scheme. So what makes me think it'll be any different if PM were to return and start? Maybe it's well-wishing on my part, but I think playing with an injury has affected his play more so than age.
    Getting injured is his age, don't you see the correlation? The injuries that have kept him out this year and last are fatigue and muscle injuries.

    Even a PM from 2013 would have a hard time coming back in with no reps and performing. Throw him back in an offense he clearly can't run and it will be a train wreck. Try to have him run his offense that relies on timing and accuracy and he's in even deeper water.

    I get that people are fans of PM and have respect for his accomplishments. He's done a ton. But, I can't understand these same fans wishing for him to be put back in charge of a team that has so clearly moved on. Those fans are asking for him to suffer.

  4. #214
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    Here's what it boils down to.

    The Broncos have a great defense. They don't need a noodle armed QB with the mobility of a tree, who can't hit the broadside of a barn because he has no feeling in his fingertips, standing behind a makeshift line of rookies and castoffs and winging it down the field 40-50 times and averaging 2 INTs a game.

    Run the ball, do play action, get those safeties to move up and then hit the long throws down the field and throw in some bootlegs to keep defenses off balance. Manning can't even stand under center and hand the ball off so he's incapable of running the offense. Brock can do all this but without an O-line that can run block everything is made harder.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngel View Post
    "Manning gives us the better chance of going all the way". Bases on what? Are you blind to the second half of last season and the 10 games he has played this year?
    Manning was playing injured towards the end of last season, and it is obvious that Manning wasn't entirely healthy either this season. Are you ignoring the fact that injuries can affect how a person plays and performs? Manning has the experience that Osweiler does not. I think that Manning, when healthy, gives the Broncos a better chance. If Manning were to start again before the regular season ends and plays horribly, then I'll think differently about the whole matter.
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  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaOrange View Post
    Getting injured is his age, don't you see the correlation? The injuries that have kept him out this year and last are fatigue and muscle injuries.

    Even a PM from 2013 would have a hard time coming back in with no reps and performing. Throw him back in an offense he clearly can't run and it will be a train wreck. Try to have him run his offense that relies on timing and accuracy and he's in even deeper water.

    I get that people are fans of PM and have respect for his accomplishments. He's done a ton. But, I can't understand these same fans wishing for him to be put back in charge of a team that has so clearly moved on. Those fans are asking for him to suffer.
    That's the head scratcher in a nut shell..why did that happen? The offense was successful the last 3 years ..It needed a little substance in the form of running the ball better. Not an overhaul. Especially in an offense that over the last 17 years didn't produce anything. I get slack for this but given this success that has been here for the last 3 years just needed a little tweaking I question the commitment to the saying SB or bust. In order to win it all it takes commitment but commitment doesn't mean changing things that are working..commitment is keeping whats working and add things that help. Its a head scratcher.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narco View Post
    Here's what it boils down to.

    The Broncos have a great defense. They don't need a noodle armed QB with the mobility of a tree, who can't hit the broadside of a barn because he has no feeling in his fingertips, standing behind a makeshift line of rookies and castoffs and winging it down the field 40-50 times and averaging 2 INTs a game.

    Run the ball, do play action, get those safeties to move up and then hit the long throws down the field and throw in some bootlegs to keep defenses off balance. Manning can't even stand under center and hand the ball off so he's incapable of running the offense. Brock can do all this but without an O-line that can run block everything is made harder.
    They cant run the ball ..they cant. 296 yrds in the first half of the Steelers game..46 yards by the end of the 3rd so now what?

  8. #218
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    I am curious ,,are people aware that the 97,98 teams had several players that ran the ball for like 200 yards each? That's unheard of in todays NFL..maybe 1 player here and there from different teams but not more then 1 on the same team and not in game after game after game.
    That's the difference between Shannys offense and Kubiak trying to run Shannys offense.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narco View Post
    The Broncos aren't winning a Super Bowl this year so what's the harm in thinking about the future and giving the young guy some game time under pressure. Starting Manning and losing does nothing for next year when he gets cut. Brock is the starter and people need to deal with it.

    Next year the offense will be better because they will not be playing some hybrid system for half the season just to make 1 guy happy. I think not enough is made of this. The Broncos went from one system to a hybrid and now trying to go back to what they initially wanted to run in the first place and it's caused confusion everywhere. I blame Kubiak for this for not benching Manning sooner when he saw he couldn't run the plays.
    This is a bunch of garbage. First of all the Broncos made the decision to keep Manning. Therefore it is up to the coaches to design a gameplan and scheme that fits the strengths of its players, not the other way around. You act resentful that the coach had to implement a scheme to make "1 guy happy." He's supposed to. Every coach is supposed to do that, especially for their QB. Doesn't a coach want to put their players in the best position possible to win? Aren't coaches supposed to figure out what their players strengths and weaknesses are and figure out what schemes and plays will work and what won't?

    Did anyone have an issue when McCoy completely abandoned the offense and created a new system for Tebow? That's what he should have done. And it was what Kubiak was supposed to do for our QB and the rest of the team.

    Jeez, I get so freaking sick of this. People act like it was a damn burden for Kubiak to do what he was supposed to do. That's his damn job. They made the decision to keep Manning. Therefore you do what you need to to make it work. They made their choice. So live with it.

    I do think Manning should have been benched sooner. But stop acting like it was "poor Kubiak" who had to make 1 player happy. That was his damn job.

  10. #220
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    I think the part that is being missed here are the people that Elway has brought in. You think that using Peyton's name didn't help bring in those guys? Elway has had it pretty easy after signing Peyton and getting free agents to sign in Denver. I guarantee that using Brock as opposed to Peyton will not be as appealing and Elway's job will become much tougher. I will root for Brock and the Broncos every time but Brock isn't our future because if he is we are in for a long next couple years. Our best chance of making any noise this year is with Peyton.
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  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    This is a bunch of garbage. First of all the Broncos made the decision to keep Manning. Therefore it is up to the coaches to design a gameplan and scheme that fits the strengths of its players, not the other way around. You act resentful that the coach had to implement a scheme to make "1 guy happy." He's supposed to. Every coach is supposed to do that, especially for their QB. Doesn't a coach want to put their players in the best position possible to win? Aren't coaches supposed to figure out what their players strengths and weaknesses are and figure out what schemes and plays will work and what won't?

    Did anyone have an issue when McCoy completely abandoned the offense and created a new system for Tebow? That's what he should have done. And it was what Kubiak was supposed to do for our QB and the rest of the team. Its 101 of football..
    The ONLY time you do not cater to a QB is when that QB DOES NOT HAVE AN IDENTY ..OR THE O LINE DOES NOT HAVE AN IDENTY.. that is exactly why Kubiak went to the ravens ..proble4m here other then the hact that they had an identy was even with the help from Kubiak it still was not near the top 5 like the Broncos have been for the last 3 years.

    Jeez, I get so freaking sick of this. People act like it was a damn burden for Kubiak to do what he was supposed to do. That's his damn job. They made the decision to keep Manning. Therefore you do what you need to to make it work. They made their choice. So live with it.

    I do think Manning should have been benched sooner. But stop acting like it was "poor Kubiak" who had to make 1 player happy. That was his damn job.
    That 1 player was what was working in Denver..Tebow wasn't . In fact the only QB to work in Denver was Elway. So yeah,, you cater to whats working for you because when your QB is working your O lne is working..its a domino effect.
    Last edited by Chrissy; 12-27-2015 at 08:18 PM.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Real 15 View Post
    I think the part that is being missed here are the people that Elway has brought in. You think that using Peyton's name didn't help bring in those guys? Elway has had it pretty easy after signing Peyton and getting free agents to sign in Denver. I guarantee that using Brock as opposed to Peyton will not be as appealing and Elway's job will become much tougher. I will root for Brock and the Broncos every time but Brock isn't our future because if he is we are in for a long next couple years. Our best chance of making any noise this year is with Peyton.
    Yes it will ..and especially as they have all seen how its unfolded. When VD came here he was quoted as saying To play with Peyton Manning ..he didn't mention the Broncos.
    I always say the grass is not always greeenier on the other side 10 out of 10x its full of weeds.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    That 1 player was what was working in Denver..Tebow wasn't . In fact the only QB to work in Denver was Elway. So yeah,, you cater to whats working for you because when your QB is working your O lne is working..its a domino effect.
    I think you missed my point Chrissy. But whatever.
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  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    That's the head scratcher in a nut shell..why did that happen? The offense was successful the last 3 years ..It needed a little substance in the form of running the ball better. Not an overhaul. Especially in an offense that over the last 17 years didn't produce anything. I get slack for this but given this success that has been here for the last 3 years just needed a little tweaking I question the commitment to the saying SB or bust. In order to win it all it takes commitment but commitment doesn't mean changing things that are working..commitment is keeping whats working and add things that help. Its a head scratcher.
    Elway either lost his nerve or couldn't break a promise. That's the end result of this season. Perhaps he expected the hiring of Kubiak to send PM a message. Asking PM to take a pay cut sent another message. Trading and not signing two big o linemen sent another message. Then letting Tamme and Thomas go sent yet another message. PM called his bluff and came back anyway.

    PM would appear to be a pretty head strong and stubborn guy. I'm sure that's been a part of his magic over the years. Works both ways, like playing injured and literally throwing away a game in KC.

    Had our D not been so good I suspect both Elway and Kubiak couldn't wait to make a change. But PM is an icon and it's easier said than done to gut that fish. So, they had to wait for the team to warm to the idea of making a change. You don't simply replace a guy like PM. Heck, players even stuck up for Orton when he was replaced.

    For PM what other options did he have? What competitive team is going to give PM control, which he needs, at his age? Nobody. PMs only chance to play was with the Broncos even if it meant not getting to be PM anymore.

    Kubiak has had it the worst, he got to kill a legend. That sucks. He just wanted to be a coach and do it his way and yet he spent the offseason and the first half of the season compromising. Now he's being judged based off of half a season wasted doing not what he wants but what PM could do.

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  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I am curious ,,are people aware that the 97,98 teams had several players that ran the ball for like 200 yards each? That's unheard of in todays NFL..maybe 1 player here and there from different teams but not more then 1 on the same team and not in game after game after game.
    That's the difference between Shannys offense and Kubiak trying to run Shannys offense.
    We had 1 and his name was Terrel Davis.In 98 no one else had 200 for the year, Derek Loville was next in line and had 161 for the whole year and in 97 Vaughn Hebron had 222 for the whole season and John Elway was next in line. You don't know about Denver's past or the 97, 98 teams or Shanny's or Kubes offense and you really should at least research your points if you are going to claim too
    Last edited by FL BRONCO; 12-27-2015 at 08:37 PM.
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