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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    As I have been saying Os doesn't have that ability and I really don't believe that its something as I said before can be taught. He doesn't know how to rad defenses.. Aand this is the thing when it comes to elite QB's and average at best QB's ..defenses may always have the same basics BUT they are always changing and being tweaked..an elite QB can see the change even if its just a hair difference, an average QB has no clue. He is expecting one thing and a slight variation happens and then the play s blown up.
    If reading defense could be taught then all QB's would be elite but there not and that's why their are only a select few of elite QB's to ever play the game.
    Sure. But the play doesn't get blown up if our guys make some relatively easy catches against Oakland. Even a few here and there against Pitt. Kubiak as HC is our move away from a system where a "star" QB makes the Offense run and relies more on execution of plays by the whole team. If (big if) you get the team playing well then it works.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
    Sure. But the play doesn't get blown up if our guys make some relatively easy catches against Oakland. Even a few here and there against Pitt. Kubiak as HC is our move away from a system where a "star" QB makes the Offense run and relies more on execution of plays by the whole team. If (big if) you get the team playing well then it works.
    Not to harp on it but these dropped balls was an issue when Kubiak was in Texas as well. 8 year problem. I agree with what your saying but I think it still comes down to the routes and how the QB leads it with the ball. And I don't think the players know all of the routes so maybe they are surprised when it comes there way,,I don't know my friend. I do know I got so much flack when I said they should let DT walk because his style wasn't suited for it.
    I still scratch my head ( put Peyton aside for a min) They paid DT 70 million after they brought Kubiak in ..they are opposite night and day. Its confusing. And I don't even want to touch VD...lol that poor fella needs an arrow put on his uni to show him the way to the right end zone..haha
    Last edited by Chrissy; 12-28-2015 at 03:45 PM.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    No I didn't miss it.. Your theory works when an offense doesn't have an identity ..The last 3 years before Kubak arrived the Broncos had an identity and we knew this because they finished ALL 3 YEARS in the top 5..that is an identity. They produced.
    Now when Kubiak was at the Texans and went to the Ravens the O line had no identity. Ray Lewis was it for the Ravens..so when its said oh Kubak did this for Flacko ,he had his best year,,that's great but what is missing with the flip side of that sentence is Peyton finished #2, #3 ..the last 3 years.. Flacko was what#9? Now people oh Flacko had the worst year w/o Kubiak ..ok well Peyton is having his worst year with Kubiak. Why is this..Flacko didn't have an identity to start with. so...
    Peyton NOR THE O LONE should have NEVER been forced to conform to the Kubiak offense , Kubiak should have meshed the 2. People can say oh well Peyton couldn't do this or that the right there in a nutshell SHOWS THAT KUBIAK WAS THE WRONG HIRE.
    Elway wanted to move on, then fine.. the only issue I EVER had with that is then don't say its win now and from now on when an O line as good as they were was thrown out the window for a less then stellar O line. We are seeing just that.
    I can't take it any more.

    PFM is his own worst enemy, he's the reason why he can't win in the post season. He chokes, he refuses to run the ball because he's such a type A control freak that it's impossible for him to trust anyone else enough to take the ball out of his hands. What's crazy to me is the year he actually won it the team was almost 50/50 run to pass ratio.

    Elway knows the team needs to be able to run the ball & have balance to make it through the post season so he hired a coach with the same vision. Unfortunately PFM uses the running game to get to the next pass play instead of using it as another tool of the offense. Read that part again. Last year Elway could see PFM was struggling and demanded the coaches rein him in and start running the ball more because the coaching staff didn't have the guts to do it.

    Fast forward to this year and PFM who is supposedly the smartest QB to ever play the game and he can't pick up a WCO that was modified to fit what he likes to do? No the problem is he PHYSICALLY can't do it. He's done, he physically can't play QB at an effective level in this league.

    When Champ Bailey lost it, he pretty much lost it in a year so is it really that hard to believe that PFM has lost it? What's funny is the same thing happened with Champ. At first it was because of this injury or that injury but within a year the guy was out of the NFL.

    Do you really think that a less than gifted athlete like PFM is going to be the one guy that beats father time? I don't unless he's taking HGH.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCJE View Post
    I can't take it any more.

    PFM is his own worst enemy, he's the reason why he can't win in the post season. He chokes, he refuses to run the ball because he's such a type A control freak that it's impossible for him to trust anyone else enough to take the ball out of his hands. What's crazy to me is the year he actually won it the team was almost 50/50 run to pass ratio.

    Elway knows the team needs to be able to run the ball & have balance to make it through the post season so he hired a coach with the same vision. Unfortunately PFM uses the running game to get to the next pass play instead of using it as another tool of the offense. Read that part again. Last year Elway could see PFM was struggling and demanded the coaches rein him in and start running the ball more because the coaching staff didn't have the guts to do it.

    Fast forward to this year and PFM who is supposedly the smartest QB to ever play the game and he can't pick up a WCO that was modified to fit what he likes to do? No the problem is he PHYSICALLY can't do it. He's done, he physically can't play QB at an effective level in this league.

    When Champ Bailey lost it, he pretty much lost it in a year so is it really that hard to believe that PFM has lost it? What's funny is the same thing happened with Champ. At first it was because of this injury or that injury but within a year the guy was out of the NFL.

    Do you really think that a less than gifted athlete like PFM is going to be the one guy that beats father time? I don't unless he's taking HGH.
    Look no matter how much you have had it with Peyton fact is Peyton GUARANTEED you a playoff spot and a divison title..he has 14 of them and 16 playoff apperances. NOBODY the last 3 years was worried about just making the playoffs nor was losing the division a worry. NOW IT IS ..
    This isn't nothing news about a run game BUT whats misleading is the Kubiak run game IT DOES NOT WORK.. we a know this. we are seeing it.. What needed to be done is a COMBANATION of the 2 offenses. When one offense is replacing an offense that WAS SUCCESSFUL that's a mistake..ESPECIALLY when what it was replaced with is less successful ..97 98 was a lifetime ago..its not worked since. Again you keep whats working and you ADD to it..football 101
    Now why would you say something like that about Peyton and the HGH especially when
    1 the guy admitted he lied about ALL of these guys
    2 The Broncos released a statement saying that it was false..as did the Colts ..
    You don't have to have faith in Peyton but I do , always have ..and to be completely honest with you Peyton has NEVER in his 18 year NFL career given me a reason to doubt him..and I am not about to start now. What I do doubt is Kubiaks offense and his capability as a HEAD COACH
    Last edited by Chrissy; 12-28-2015 at 04:15 PM.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    If we are to believe reports and read between the lines, I think it's pretty clear Elway had a strong inkling that this wouldn't work with Manning under center, as soon as he hired Kubiak. Now, why he didn't act on that is debatable and we'll never get the truth either way. And you're right - after Manning took the pay cut and training camp rolled around it seemed like it might actually work. But there were red flags all over during preseason and that carried over into the regular season.



    How do we REALLY know though? According to reports, Elway stepped in and berated the entire team after the St. Louis game last year and demanded serious offensive changes. It got so bad that John Fox, who is one of the most respected people in the league and has a strong reputation for doing things "the right way", essentially took another job while still under contract with us and phoned-in a playoff game. There are clearly signs that, while things may not be as bad as in Oakland or Dallas, they're just a notch below that level. I certainly agree that a GM should be involved in some fashion but again, if Elway is telling Kubiak he has to play Osweiler then I don't think that's a healthy GM/head coach relationship.




    Athletes across all sports and for many years before I was born have a tendency to overstay their welcome. The organization has to be the "cooler head" of the two and make the decision that's in their best interests. It was clear based on the firing of Fox & Gase, the attempted trade, and the pay-cut demand that the Broncos had very minimal interest in bringing Manning back, if they had any interest at all.




    I'm not saying it doesn't have other causes. I'm just saying that asking a quarterback to play outside his known comfort zone is a major mistake, and the Broncos continued to try and force it up until the Chiefs game. Once the Broncos made the decision to allow Manning to come back this season, they should have gone "all-in" with him. I understand the principles of what Kubiak wants to do but at the end of the day you have a quarterback who has played in a specific system for the majority of 18 years. You should have just done everything to set him up for success, as opposed to trying to make him learn something new.



    Joel Dreesen was on 104.3 The Fan after the Steelers loss. He's a huge Gary Kubiak guy, and played for him in Houston. He stated that there were a lot of games and a lot of season in Houston in which the team started off strong and ultimately fizzled out in the end. In fact one of the biggest knocks on Kubiak as a head coach throughout his career has been his inability to finish.

    There is a track record for this. We were seeing these issues in Denver after the Super Bowl years, up until Kubiak left after the 2005 season. We saw this with Mike Shanahan post-Kubiak in his final years in Denver as well as in Washington. We saw this from Kubiak in Houston. Between the 30s this offense is great but once we're in the redzone we can't execute. While Kubiak had success in Baltimore last season, that was as an offensive coordinator with a pretty good head coach in Harbaugh filtering things. And how many seasons do we remember in Denver where we jumped out to a 6-1/5-2 start or something similar, only to watch us wind up 8-8, 9-7, or 10-6 in the final standings?

    There is something very, VERY flawed with this offense right now, and since Kubiak is the head coach and de facto offensive coordinator seeing as he calls the offensive plays, then he deservedly should be criticized for it, as much as the quarterbacks, DT, the offensive line, the running backs, or anyone else associated with the offense.

    As I said, we win the division, win the Super Bowl, all this is moot. But if we stumble here over the next two weeks and don't even make the playoffs, absolutely there will be a ton of finger pointing and Elway and Kubiak.
    Good reply. I had a nice long response typed up and accidentally wiped it out. Maybe again later.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
    Shanahan was the same way. I remember Jake Plummer complaining about it, that he expected perfection. It's a double edged sword. It works if you can get the right players.
    Unless they can transport from 97 ands 98 I don't see that happening..

  7. #307
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    So this weekend is a big one Manning.

    This is the last week that Ryan or Bortles can catch your boy for the season INTs "honor". So close to reaching and hopefully passing Manning on the final week. Going to be exciting.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    So this weekend is a big one Manning.

    This is the last week that Ryan or Bortles can catch your boy for the season INTs "honor". So close to reaching and hopefully passing Manning on the final week. Going to be exciting.
    How long you think its gonna be before they catch Peyton on TD's thrown, passing yardage, etc.. Yeah me too A LONG TIME IF EVER IN THIS LIFETIME..And to think he OWNS THEM ALL

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Why would I shop I have those..but if you keep looking you will find that there are more then thse.. I KNOW because I have those too..
    And again just because you have had it with Peyton doesn't mean that everybody else has..he has fans NATIONWIDE.. and until he says I retire we will support him..because that is what A TRUE FAN DOES.
    I can't disagree with that

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Unless they can transport from 97 and 98 I don't see that happening..
    It's possible that the team just isn't talented enough to go anywhere in the playoffs this year. That would be a shame because I do think Denver has a Super Bowl caliber Defense. But PFM isn't going to be around forever. His play did decline (regardless of our opinions regarding why) and now the guy is benched with an injury. We don't need Zombie Broncos. We need the guys we have to play better right now.

  11. #311
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    Kids, what the Broncos need to do is get rid of Kubiak. He is NOT a head coach. This team looks more and more discombobulated each week. The game this eve is a cold mess and it is only into the second quarter. You can hear the boo birds starting to come out because they see it first hand... that this team just looks more and more confused. It is coaching, coaching, coaching. Not only is Kubiak NOT a head coach, his offensive play calling in a word SUCKS. His play calling looks more like guesswork that functional, coordinated play calling to fit the personnel and situations. And to make it all infinitely worse, Kubiak has the emotional energy of a gnat.

    This team is slowly coming apart and it is an absolute direct reflection on the head coach.

    You watch. It will not be until Kubiak is gone that this team will begin to come together again. Kubiak is not a head coach. Not by a long shot. And man does it show.

    Ah, and the half just ended and there it is... booing. The fans see it. A team slowly coming apart at the seams. Kubiak has got to go before the Broncos will ever have a prayer of coming together again.

  12. #312
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    I'm not a big Osweiler fan, but it's nice to cheer for a QB that isn't a cheater and juicer.

  13. #313
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    Great game by BFO!!!

  14. #314
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    70% completion, 300 yards, great stuff yet again. Well done

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
    It's possible that the team just isn't talented enough to go anywhere in the playoffs this year. That would be a shame because I do think Denver has a Super Bowl caliber Defense. But PFM isn't going to be around forever. His play did decline (regardless of our opinions regarding why) and now the guy is benched with an injury. We don't need Zombie Broncos. We need the guys we have to play better right now.
    I disagree..we all just saw that game ..the W is great but lets get freal..in the playoffs that would have been a loss..Look at the first 3 quarters of the game thread ..thaat w3as play by play..not good Peyton was shown on TV tonight in practice,,.Peyton looks good..he will be back ..the world saw hes not hurt as we thought bouncing around like he was. He had BOTH feet planted

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