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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaOrange View Post
    Funny, seems like your point is you'd like to see Brock get hurt so PM can come in and save the day like some Hollywood fantasy. If PM gets into a game it will be the second most embarrassing end to his career or worse.
    Where exactly do you see that he wants Brock hurt? I've read and re-read the original post and the best I can come up with is the acknowledgment that Brock is playing hurt behind an O-Line that is basically responsible for his injury. Playing as well as they have could possibly result in further injury to his shoulder and in such case we'd need a reliable backup.

    That seems far from Hollywood fantasy and sounds more like having a reasonable plan B should plan A fail.

    How is that wanting Brick to get hurt? Or was that just hyperbole?
    Last edited by Rastic; 01-02-2016 at 12:43 AM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    Yeah he turned into a pick-6, INT machine.

    Sounds familiar.....
    Very familiar. Although as bad as some of those Manning pick 6's were this year, I don't remember any as painful as the one Schlub threw against Seattle, they had that game won. I remember watching it and you could see it unfolding slowly, almost like it was taking place in slow motion, I remember thinking "nothing there, throw it away" "don't try to throw that" "He can't be throwing that" "oh no..."

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by River Side View Post
    If there is any truth to this Denver needs a better medical evaluation staff. Who allowed a possibly injured player whose play is compromised by an injury to take the field till he completely breaks down.
    Um, yeah. Nothing new. A player could have his arm torn off and hanging by a tendon and Greek would go "You're feeling good? Well, get out there!" Not sure why they aren't under more scrutiny.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonray View Post
    There is a reason we have coaches ...players cannot manage themselves. Every dedicated player is apt to try and stay on the field as long as they can drag their limbs out there. It is up to management to assess and stop them from hurting themselves and the team. Fox and Kubiak both failed in this regard.
    valid points, but really wasn't my focus. sometimes when you have a caliber player such as PFM you have to hit empty (for various reasons) before you pull them as has unfolded.

    back to the topic. in general (it's ironic?) PFM's downfall hasn't been his "noodle arm" but rather his lower body, which of course, is critical to a QBs throwing motion/strength. i theorize he himself is fine, it's these injuries that have completely derailed him. i guess that is just part of father time, but my point is i do not think his mental capacity for the game or in game situations has dulled and if he were totally healthy we might have a lot less threads on these boards. now, he is getting old football years and the end either way would not be far behind. then you look at a guy like Brady and say "Yeah, he must be taking something." lol

  5. #35
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    On Manning's quad injury last year...seems like I remember reading an article that the staff later found out he was going out of his way to wear sweats and conceal the bruising that extended all the way down his calf. Not sure if that was true or just a rumor. Seemed like the article was about Manning hiding the bruising because the injury was worse than what anyone believed.

    After reading that I wondered, "Can Manning be trusted to be honest about his condition in any circumstance?"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by osfantaztic View Post
    On Manning's quad injury last year...seems like I remember reading an article that the staff later found out he was going out of his way to wear sweats and conceal the bruising that extended all the way down his calf. Not sure if that was true or just a rumor. Seemed like the article was about Manning hiding the bruising because the injury was worse than what anyone believed.

    After reading that I wondered, "Can Manning be trusted to be honest about his condition in any circumstance?"
    People often blame the coaches for leaving an injured Peyton in the game. But Peyton doesn't tell them he is injured. You find out he was injured on Monday morning after a bad game. That's when Peyton's people leak the info. And the coaches are like "We didn't know."

  7. #37
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    I have no doubt in my mind injuries have been effecting PM longer than some of us think.

    Father time is undefeated

    Also long is the list of players who think they can keep playing through injuries. They did it all their life and they are not yet use to the fact that their age is preventing them from doing it now.

    You would be surprised how this mentality is not limited to sports. I have a nurse friend who recently learned they need to educate people in their late 30s early 40s about how their age is limiting their physical abilities. Patients this age are still use to doing things on their own and do not ask for help...which in turn causes more "unplanned descents to the floor" of any age group in hospitals.

    I know lot of us want to put blame on PM for holding back on how hurt he is but he has been playing through injuries his whole career. Maybe he is just now understanding how much it is limiting him.
    All I want for Christmas is a Bronco QB controversy

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    Where exactly do you see that he wants Brock hurt? I've read and re-read the original post and the best I can come up with is the acknowledgment that Brock is playing hurt behind an O-Line that is basically responsible for his injury. Playing as well as they have could possibly result in further injury to his shoulder and in such case we'd need a reliable backup.

    That seems far from Hollywood fantasy and sounds more like having a reasonable plan B should plan A fail.

    How is that wanting Brick to get hurt? Or was that just hyperbole?
    Never wanted Brock in the first place. Long history of over the top support for Manning.

    The whole thing is a contradiction. There was a select group of posters that had 101 reasons for why Manning was playing poorly. It was a new offense, DT missed camp, not his timing/accuracy passing game and on and on and on. Not that his body couldn't take or age had caught up to him.

    Now, he's a reliable backup? I don't see how. If one thing was proven its that PM had no business outside his offense. A hybrid pistol offense only helped him slightly. Since he was injured/sat we've moved even further away from anything PM would be comfortable with.

    How does PM come in and play any better with a team that has basically moved further away from his comfort zone? Why would any fan of PM want him thrown into that situation? I certainly don't. I respect the guy and want the best for him and at this point the best for him is retirement. Anyone hoping for a miraculous return has still not come to grips with reality.
    Anybody know how to get out of Plan A? - Elway

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaOrange View Post
    Never wanted Brock in the first place. Long history of over the top support for Manning.

    The whole thing is a contradiction. There was a select group of posters that had 101 reasons for why Manning was playing poorly. It was a new offense, DT missed camp, not his timing/accuracy passing game and on and on and on. Not that his body couldn't take or age had caught up to him.

    Now, he's a reliable backup? I don't see how. If one thing was proven its that PM had no business outside his offense. A hybrid pistol offense only helped him slightly. Since he was injured/sat we've moved even further away from anything PM would be comfortable with.

    How does PM come in and play any better with a team that has basically moved further away from his comfort zone? Why would any fan of PM want him thrown into that situation? I certainly don't. I respect the guy and want the best for him and at this point the best for him is retirement. Anyone hoping for a miraculous return has still not come to grips with reality.
    I get all that and am just as tired as anybody at the drama that has ensued as a result.

    What I think is unfair, ad a stretch at best, respectfully, is the assertion that support for Manning even as the backup equals wanting Brock hurt.

    Regardless of people's feelings on the matter I'd venture that almost every single person here understands that who starts is a decision made by the coaches not a consensus that Os and Manning arrive at during the week and nobody wants a player hurt so his replacement can come in.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    I get all that and am just as tired as anybody at the drama that has ensued as a result.

    What I think is unfair, ad a stretch at best, respectfully, is the assertion that support for Manning even as the backup equals wanting Brock hurt.

    Regardless of people's feelings on the matter I'd venture that almost every single person here understands that who starts is a decision made by the coaches not a consensus that Os and Manning arrive at during the week and nobody wants a player hurt so his replacement can come in.
    I understand what you mean about any fan wanting a player injured for the sake of another. I doubt most fans would be in favor of that kind of mentality. Not for opposing players or for our own.

    But there does seem to be a undercurrent of negativity for Osweiler and a optimism for Manning that borders on the ludicrous at times.

    Some seem to have no issue "expecting" to see Osweiler fold under the pressure or be injured. Yet those same posters predict Manning will somehow avoid the same pressure and complete passes he has not been able to do all season long. Just a theme of expecting the worst from Osweiler and the downright miraculous from Manning as the natural order of things.

    I am happy to see Manning feeling well enough to play, if needed. I still think Osweiler has been the better QB this year. And I am not overly concerned with him suddenly crawling into a corner and weeping due to the pressure of the playoffs as some seem to be predicting. IMO he will only continue to play more consistently with every game.

    If Manning is needed. So be it. I much prefer him to Siemian. If he plays I will be rooting for him to excel for he sake of the Broncos. but I would not expect him to suddenly be the player from two years ago. Even if "healthy" enough to play he is still a shadow of himself. My concern is he tries to do too much after sitting for half the season. That he tries too hard to prove he is still "PFM". More instances of his mind telling him what to do but his body not quite being in sync.
    Last edited by FR Tim; 01-02-2016 at 10:45 AM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    I understand what you mean about any fan wanting a player injured for the sake of another. I doubt most fans would be in favor of that kind of mentality. Not for opposing players or for our own.

    But there does seem to be a undercurrent of negativity for Osweiler and a optimism for Manning that borders on the ludicrous at times.

    Some seem to have no issue "expecting" to see Osweiler fold under the pressure or be injured. Yet those same posters predict Manning will somehow avoid the same pressure and complete passes he has not been able to do all season long. Just a theme of expecting the worst from Osweiler and the downright miraculous from Manning as the natural order of things.

    I am happy to see Manning feeling well enough to play, if needed. I still think Osweiler has been the better QB this year. And I am not overly concerned with him suddenly crawling into a corner and weeping due to the pressure of the playoffs as some seem to be predicting. IMO he will only continue to play more consistently with every game.

    If Manning is needed. So be it. I much prefer him to Siemian. If he plays I will be rooting for him to excel for he sake of the Broncos. but I would not expect him to suddenly be the player from two years ago. Even if "healthy" enough to play he is still a shadow of himself. My concern is he tries to do too much after sitting for half the season. That he tries too hard to prove he is still "PFM". More instances of his mind telling him what to do but his body not quite being in sync.
    Sure, you are absolutely correct, just as there were some saying things along the same line about Manning prior to Os starting. There are extremes to be found on both sides.

    That doesn't address the suggestion that one's support for a player, Manning or Os, equals wanting the opposite player inured, which is what was essentially implied. I find that unfortunate, but that's me.

    It's hard to discuss and debate anything if people judge you on what you didn't say rather than what you did.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    Sure, you are absolutely correct, just as there were some saying things along the same line about Manning prior to Os starting. There are extremes to be found on both sides.

    That doesn't address the suggestion that one's support for a player, Manning or Os, equals wanting the opposite player inured, which is what was essentially implied. I find that unfortunate, but that's me.

    It's hard to discuss and debate anything if people judge you on what you didn't say rather than what you did.
    Kind of like being critical of either QB and immediately being labeled a "hater" ...

    Good times, huh!

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I have no doubt in my mind injuries have been effecting PM longer than some of us think.

    Father time is undefeated

    Also long is the list of players who think they can keep playing through injuries. They did it all their life and they are not yet use to the fact that their age is preventing them from doing it now.

    You would be surprised how this mentality is not limited to sports. I have a nurse friend who recently learned they need to educate people in their late 30s early 40s about how their age is limiting their physical abilities. Patients this age are still use to doing things on their own and do not ask for help...which in turn causes more "unplanned descents to the floor" of any age group in hospitals.

    I know lot of us want to put blame on PM for holding back on how hurt he is but he has been playing through injuries his whole career. Maybe he is just now understanding how much it is limiting him.
    People in their late 30s and 40s in hospital are different than late 30s and 40s healthy and normal. Age is usually not a factor in unplanned floor descents if in good health at that age....I think the factor of being ill is more in play here.

  14. #44
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    Since this is a discussion about Peyton's decline in 2014, I thought I might share this comment I found on another site's article. I was blown away when I read it but I realize it can be a a very controversial issue and nothing has been proven on the HGH issue with Peyton, so all this is speculation but very interesting to think about!

    So Peyton visited a Clinic that was clearly distributing steroids and HGH. His wife was sent a vast amount of something presumably to be HGH. What a coincidence that doctors said that after his 4th neck surgery in 2011 he would probably never play again. Then he comes back and plays two of the best seasons of his career at 36 and 37 years old in 2012 and 2013. He starts off the 2014 with record breaking numbers once again. Then in October of 2014 the league starts testing for HGH. Less than 2 months later his “SUDDEN” and “STEEP” decline starts. Hmmm.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by haciendadad View Post
    Since this is a discussion about Peyton's decline in 2014, I thought I might share this comment I found on another site's article. I was blown away when I read it but I realize it can be a a very controversial issue and nothing has been proven on the HGH issue with Peyton, so all this is speculation but very interesting to think about!
    which doctors said he would probably never play again...the only person I heard say anything like that was Rob Lowe....lol

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