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  1. #256
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    This thread is like politics.......clear divide. That's cool.

    If someone can prove that DT is playing as good or better than before (leaving out all the finger pointing), I will definitely listen. But the proof for me is "just watching" him. And I do not believe that salaries should be based on what you did for me yesterday. They should reward you for what you bring "TODAY". That's how the business world works.....you get promoted, you are expected to be on top of your job, which by the way is harder and more accountable. In his case, DT is getting paid much more, but is not being more accountable.

    But I'll say it again.....I hope he kicks Houston butt this week, and goes on to be a pro bowler!!

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    I think DT's performance is a side effect of our poor o line, but not entirely on just his 'lack of effort.' The QBs we have are inexperienced and will not always make an accurate read or throw. His fumbles are issues but would be less noticeable if our O line could hold back the pass rush long enough for Simian to connect with DT. Also Sanders himself has said that he performs well due to DT's efforts on the field. So the talk that DT is an issue is ignoring IMO the real problem, which is the o-line affecting the QB's pass
    Maybe it is, but it's his job to carry the team once in a while. HOF QB leaves - heir apparent leaves,.... we need the other leaders of this team to step up - lead - and carry the team at times. DT shouldn't need the OL to play well for him to make a dent. We're counting on our leaders man. DT is one of the highest paid leaders and one of the most talented.

    I'm seeing all of these (I wont call them excuses) explanations for his less than stellar play. There are no excuses at that paygrade. I mean sure, once you have the benefit of the doubt, an off game isn't a big deal. Take Deandre Hopkins of Houston. He's out there making great catches and converting 3rd downs etc. Playing pretty clutch. But he was nearly invisible last game. I have no doubt in his abilities or effort and 'want to'. I have my questions regarding DT. It's a pattern. Not an anomaly.
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  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    Maybe it is, but it's his job to carry the team once in a while. HOF QB leaves - heir apparent leaves,.... we need the other leaders of this team to step up - lead - and carry the team at times. DT shouldn't need the OL to play well for him to make a dent. We're counting on our leaders man. DT is one of the highest paid leaders and one of the most talented.

    I'm seeing all of these (I wont call them excuses) explanations for his less than stellar play. There are no excuses at that paygrade. I mean sure, once you have the benefit of the doubt, an off game isn't a big deal. Take Deandre Hopkins of Houston. He's out there making great catches and converting 3rd downs etc. Playing pretty clutch. But he was nearly invisible last game. I have no doubt in his abilities or effort and 'want to'. I have my questions regarding DT. It's a pattern. Not an anomaly.

    I'm sorry, but yes...he should. Either that or the coaching staff needs to be calling quicker routes than they are. Most of the time DT isn't getting targeted because he's still running through his route assignment and Trevor is already under attack and getting rid of the ball.

    It's not as simple as "DT needs to carry the team" Otherwise then so does Sanders and I see no one advocating that. The double standards are amazing...

    This issue is a lot more complex than anyone on the "DT isn't worth what we paid for him" side of the debate seem to want to admit. There are a multitude of issues ranging from poor play calling, poor QB play, poor running game and most of those seem to boil down to a struggling o-line that can't provide enough time for the receivers to get open.

    I guess that's what I find most frustrating...Everyone's on the "DT needs to carry this team" bandwagon

    DT has 416 yards 3TD 2 fumbles
    Sanders has 413 yards 3 TD's 1 fumble.

    They are playing almost identical, but because DT makes $3 million more he should be doing it all by himself.

    I don't understand why everyone feels it should all be up to one player to "carry this team" when the entire team is in a slump right now...Why aren't we yelling at CJ to do his part, or He-man or Green or the QB? It's like no one on this team is getting paid to do a job but DT... Rather than pointing fingers and tearing down one specific player, doesn't it make more sense to recognize that there is and has been a wider spread issue going on dating back to last year?

    The funny thing is, I'm labeled a "Diehard DT fan" I'm a fan of this entire team and every player on it at this point...I just wish people would look at it objectively instead of just focusing on how much money one specific player makes.
    Last edited by Freyaka; 10-19-2016 at 03:53 PM.


  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post

    I guess that's what I find most frustrating...Everyone's on the "DT needs to carry this team" bandwagon
    you left out
    .......... carry this team - at times. Critical times preferably.

    Yes he should

    They're not playing identically

    You can't just put 3 stats up and say identical

    How about for instance drops.

    2015

    2016 so far

    But really, my biggest beef with DT is toughness, effort, willingness to take a shot. This IS football
    Last edited by dizzolve; 10-19-2016 at 04:02 PM.
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  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    you left out
    .......... carry this team - at times. Critical times preferably.

    Yes he should

    They're not playing identically

    You can't just put 3 stats up and say identical

    How about for instance drops.

    2015

    2016 so far
    And there it is, we've looped back to the drops... again...

    Ya'll are gonna hate him no matter what I try and say, this thread is going no where fast. I'll let you guys get back to what you were doing and avoid this thread going forward. It's basically just a giant circle of rehashing the same crap over and over.


  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    It's basically just a giant circle of rehashing the same crap over and over.
    YAY we found common ground!

    Hey, I love my Broncos. I think you do to. I want to see DT become the ELITE WR he CAN be.
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  7. #262
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    The insistence that we look at players separate from their cap hits is amazingly out of place on a football forum. NFL performance is relative. Sunshine makes a fool of himself.. No biggie.. Kid is learning the ropes and doesn't cost much. DT on the other hand is being paid heavily with the expectation that he'll vastly outperform younger players. At the moment he's just looking like last year soft receiver who'll completely disappear off the map if we're lucky enough to reach the playoffs.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    YAY we found common ground!

    Hey, I love my Broncos. I think you do to. I want to see DT become the ELITE WR he CAN be.
    I want the same thing, I want to see him get back to 1,500+ yards and dominating, but I guess where we're not going to find common ground is how to accomplish that.

    Personally, I think we have the QB and wr's available now to get it done. Trevor seems like the type of QB who could put up 4,000+ yards, the problem is the o-line is killing him....If he can't properly set himself up to throw a ball to the right spot, if the timing is a second off because he's releasing sooner than intended the whole thing falls apart.

    I know what you guys are going through because I did the same thing last year....I spent the entire season bashing the hell out of Manning for poor play, the problem was, Manning was only a small part of the problem. The o-line was making it impossible for him to perform at the level we all knew was possible. It was the same issue for Manning last year, he's be rushed to a decision and the pass would be slightly off (maybe due to throwing it too soon, or not getting enough strength, ect...) and it'd be a pick or the receiver would get finger tips on it, but it would take a miracle to catch it.

    I dunno, I guess I'm just frustrated in this thread because I don't know any other way to try and explain what I'm seeing watching the games for it to make sense. This whole situation is every bit as toxic as the Manning situation last year because everyone wants someone to blame and there is enough blame to go around to the entire offense.


  9. #264
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    Well if it's any consolation, I recommend listening to the Champ interview ......

    18m is where Champ joins in

    It won't prove my point but it might dovetail with thrust of your last paragraph.

    And it's true. We're in a 2 game losing streak and we're all trying to find reasons why.

    For me, the DT thing goes beyond winning and losing. He did have that one REALLY outstanding game this season though. I never saw him play as physical as he did that game. And for what it's worth I gave him heaps of praise that week. .....


    ... great Champ interview though
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  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    Well if it's any consolation, I recommend listening to the Champ interview ......

    18m is where Champ joins in

    It won't prove my point but it might dovetail with thrust of your last paragraph.

    And it's true. We're in a 2 game losing streak and we're all trying to find reasons why.

    For me, the DT thing goes beyond winning and losing. He did have that one REALLY outstanding game this season though. I never saw him play as physical as he did that game. And for what it's worth I gave him heaps of praise that week. .....


    ... great Champ interview though
    Honestly I've seen more "wow" plays out of him this season than last. The one handed catch in the Atlanta game comes to mind. When your offense is averaging 220 yards of passing...3 drops aren't going to be the difference maker there are clearly problems there. That's 27th in the league...If you are near the back of the league, one WR dropping a couple of passes isn't going to be the difference between 27th and top 15. It for sure isn't helping, but it's not the issue.

    I dunno, I just hope DT goes ape poo on the Texans and gives us a one week break from this conversation.


  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    That thread upset me probably more than any thread ever on here.

    My main issue with this one is the inaccuracy of it.

    It's also becoming comical to me that people saying "well two sites with thousands of people bashing him is validation of a problem"

    As if a few hundred to thousand people represent the entire million plus broncos fans. And they must be right because a lot of them share the same opinion so those of us who don't share it are wrong or DT apologists

    No I consider myself a loyal fan who refuses to bash a player just because his production is down.
    The title of the thread "DT is a waste" in my opinion disrespected him as a person and player.

    Being critical of a player is not necessarily bashing (although some of that has happened).

    Remove the stats, acknowledge the decline in QB play and challenges with the O line - what does DT own with respect to his performance? Does he have any room for improvement?

    Forget the contract and how much he makes. Is there any room for improvement?

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    Well if it's any consolation, I recommend listening to the Champ interview ......

    18m is where Champ joins in

    It won't prove my point but it might dovetail with thrust of your last paragraph.

    And it's true. We're in a 2 game losing streak and we're all trying to find reasons why.

    For me, the DT thing goes beyond winning and losing. He did have that one REALLY outstanding game this season though. I never saw him play as physical as he did that game. And for what it's worth I gave him heaps of praise that week. .....


    ... great Champ interview though
    Love the part about Tebow though "what was I supposed to do, it's not like I saw a bright future there" It was a fun listen, thanks for sharing it bud.


  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    I want the same thing, I want to see him get back to 1,500+ yards and dominating, but I guess where we're not going to find common ground is how to accomplish that.

    Personally, I think we have the QB and wr's available now to get it done. Trevor seems like the type of QB who could put up 4,000+ yards, the problem is the o-line is killing him....If he can't properly set himself up to throw a ball to the right spot, if the timing is a second off because he's releasing sooner than intended the whole thing falls apart.

    I know what you guys are going through because I did the same thing last year....I spent the entire season bashing the hell out of Manning for poor play, the problem was, Manning was only a small part of the problem. The o-line was making it impossible for him to perform at the level we all knew was possible. It was the same issue for Manning last year, he's be rushed to a decision and the pass would be slightly off (maybe due to throwing it too soon, or not getting enough strength, ect...) and it'd be a pick or the receiver would get finger tips on it, but it would take a miracle to catch it.

    I dunno, I guess I'm just frustrated in this thread because I don't know any other way to try and explain what I'm seeing watching the games for it to make sense. This whole situation is every bit as toxic as the Manning situation last year because everyone wants someone to blame and there is enough blame to go around to the entire offense.
    I hear where you are coming from. The entire offense needs to improve.

    With respect to DT specifically, how can he improve to help the offense? In the Bengals game Trevor threw a pass that was an over the shoulder catch - not easy but a play DT could make. In that game he had a fumble. In the Falcons game Lynch threw a deep ball that DT could have caught. That would have saved a lot of time for a comeback. He fumbled in the Chargers game and did not even attempt to catch the ball on a crossing route.

    Obviously he makes a number of plays. The Broncos need the veterans to make great plays. When it comes to DT the argument divides into defending him or saying he doesn't play at the level of his contract.

    I'm interested in what DT can improve to help the team...

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    The title of the thread "DT is a waste" in my opinion disrespected him as a person and player.

    Being critical of a player is not necessarily bashing (although some of that has happened).

    Remove the stats, acknowledge the decline in QB play and challenges with the O line - what does DT own with respect to his performance? Does he have any room for improvement?

    Forget the contract and how much he makes. Is there any room for improvement?
    There is always room for improvement no matter who the player is. DT isn't above needing to improve. Even when I'm defending him I acknowledge he needs to get better. My main thing isn't that I have a problem with being critical of his play, it's being overly critical at the expense of ignoring all else. I just wish people would look at the wider picture and recognize that the issues we have going on are bigger than any one player on this team.


  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I hear where you are coming from. The entire offense needs to improve.

    With respect to DT specifically, how can he improve to help the offense? In the Bengals game Trevor threw a pass that was an over the shoulder catch - not easy but a play DT could make. In that game he had a fumble. In the Falcons game Lynch threw a deep ball that DT could have caught. That would have saved a lot of time for a comeback. He fumbled in the Chargers game and did not even attempt to catch the ball on a crossing route.

    Obviously he makes a number of plays. The Broncos need the veterans to make great plays. When it comes to DT the argument divides into defending him or saying he doesn't play at the level of his contract.

    I'm interested in what DT can improve to help the team...
    Cutting the drops would help for sure, but I think the thing people don't recognize is it isn't an instant fix. He's not going to just wake up one day and say "I'm going to start catching every pass" It's an established issue, it's been there his whole career, those kinds of things aren't quick fixes like so many expect, it's going to take several seasons of focusing on it to see it go away.

    I think the biggest way to improve DT (outside of the obvious situation of improving the line) is to do like New England does and release quickly on routes to get the play off faster. I think the biggest issue I've noticed this season is that the WR's still haven't released from their route to get that necessary separation and Trevor's already ready to lob the ball because he's scrambling for his life.


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