Page 19 of 41 FirstFirst ... 9 17 18 19 20 21 29 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 285 of 604
  1. #271
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Cutting the drops would help for sure, but I think the thing people don't recognize is it isn't an instant fix. He's not going to just wake up one day and say "I'm going to start catching every pass" It's an established issue, it's been there his whole career, those kinds of things aren't quick fixes like so many expect, it's going to take several seasons of focusing on it to see it go away.

    I think the biggest way to improve DT (outside of the obvious situation of improving the line) is to do like New England does and release quickly on routes to get the play off faster. I think the biggest issue I've noticed this season is that the WR's still haven't released from their route to get that necessary separation and Trevor's already ready to lob the ball because he's scrambling for his life.
    Great points. I agree with you about the bigger picture and not forgetting the other plays he makes. Interestingly with all the challenges of a new quarterback and line, DT-Sanders combined production is only a few yards less than Antonio Brown-Sammie Coates.

  2. #272
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    I 70 Westbound
    Posts
    7,842
    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    Maybe it is, but it's his job to carry the team once in a while. HOF QB leaves - heir apparent leaves,.... we need the other leaders of this team to step up - lead - and carry the team at times. DT shouldn't need the OL to play well for him to make a dent. We're counting on our leaders man. DT is one of the highest paid leaders and one of the most talented.

    I'm seeing all of these (I wont call them excuses) explanations for his less than stellar play. There are no excuses at that paygrade. I mean sure, once you have the benefit of the doubt, an off game isn't a big deal. Take Deandre Hopkins of Houston. He's out there making great catches and converting 3rd downs etc. Playing pretty clutch. But he was nearly invisible last game. I have no doubt in his abilities or effort and 'want to'. I have my questions regarding DT. It's a pattern. Not an anomaly.
    Absolutely right.
    I dislike when people throw stats out as proof of what a player brings.
    Lists of stats don't tell the story of a dropped pass on 3rd down.
    They don't tell the story of a guy pulling back, not trying,
    when it is a tough catch over the middle on 2nd down...
    that would avoid the 3rd and long.
    -
    DT is here. He aint going anywhere.
    I hope he gives us his all Monday night....
    But he is far from a 1st ballot pro bowler...
    more like a guy who gets there as the alternate to an alternate.
    -
    Maybe the rest of his career he could live up to his contract.
    Time will tell.
    - Go Broncos 2017 and Beyond! -

    Super Bowl 50 CHAMPIONS!

  3. #273
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    the gulf of mexico
    Posts
    15,731
    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngel View Post
    At the end of the day, I believe D coordinators dont game plan to take DT out of the game like say Gronk (yea, I know, he is a TE), AJ Green, Antonio Bryant, Julio Jones and other game breaking wideouts. DT is a non-factor and can now be shut down by average defensive backs.
    This couldn't be farther from the truth. There's almost always a safety over the top of him and LBs almost always drop to his side of the field. That's why those screens we run are rarely as effective now than his first big season, defenses know he has that speed and call plays to give him as little running room as possible. He isn't elusive nor is durable enough to run people over so he relies on that open field for YAC. And with our unimaginative play calling, he rarely has that. I would like to see more bunch formations and have him line up tight as well as running more motion pre snap.

  4. #274
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    the gulf of mexico
    Posts
    15,731
    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    You're missing the point. He is not as effective anymore. And whether or not stats say he is not dropping more balls, sometimes stats do not tell you when he could have caught one, but did not make the right effort. It's like in baseball, one shortstop gets a few more errors but chases down everything, whereas another gets a good fielding stat, but has limited range. I want the guy who hunts down balls with more range and effort, and once in a while gets an error for trying. DT is getting errors as is, but I expect him to be getting to more balls, the ones he does not get a drop on the stat sheet. I have seen with my naked eyes many drops, and balls that he played poorly. Too many. Sanders has been "the guy". Sanders is dynamic and assertive. DT has become a lesser version of what he was, before the cash got huge.

    AND I REPEAT, we are talking about everything in his control......not about who throws it, who blocks, who runs, who coaches. It's what happens on his side of the ledger. The routes, the catching, the extra effort, holding onto the ball.

    Forget all the stats, has he shown elite qualities of late? Sometimes.....not nearly often enough.

    And you alone should know that DT was doing really good even when a certain #18 was starting to lose his game. That did not impair DT. Whether or not this is what folks are saying lets not make Manning or our new QBs the excuse.
    I know you don't agree with the stats but DT has been fairly consistent in catching the same percentage of his targets year in and year out, only last year did it drop but that's because Peyton couldn't get the ball where it needed to be anymore. All this was never a problem until last year, people have always questioned his aggression on the field, but they haven't really complained about production until last year when the offense nose dived. But my point is, not only have those drops always been there but so have the poorly played balls in the air.

    DT isn't very aggressive, I'll give you that but I don't think that's a huge problem because he is more clutch than people realize. The first KC game last year is a great example, yeah Sanders was the one who scored but DT kept that drive alive by making one handed catches with 3 people on him. He's aggressive when he has to be and my theory on that is, he's not durable, he gets dinged up a lot, do you really want to see him dive for a pass just outside his reach only to drop it when he breaks his collar bone coming down? Sanders can do all that because he rarely gets hurt, DT can't and he knows it's more important that he's out there playing because if he isn't this offense will be in big trouble.

  5. #275
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    151
    I think a lot of this conversation is because we never see DT taking over games the same way guys like Calvin Johnson do. He's much more...quiet...which is actually fine I think. We don't really need him to take over. He's just a cog in the machine. I know it seems like there are games where he completely disappears but even in those games he tends to get his receptions and yards...which means he's making enough plays.

    This is confirmed by the fact that he got 1300 yards last year despite our impression of him dropping balls (which he did do) and right out vanishing during some games. For all the credit we give to Sanders, number of plays we think he makes, and the heart he has, he still got beat out in terms of total yardage by Thomas in 2015.

    I know numbers aren't everything but we can't deny it either. I mean he didn't fake his way to 1300 yards. Yes he makes mental errors sometimes, but I think he's also much more consistent than we would give him credit for. Yes it would be nice if he had monster games every once in a while, but like I said, we don't really need him to.

    For some perspective let's look at the games he's had this year so far.

    ...............Rec.....Yds
    Week 1......4........48
    Week 2......5........90
    Week 3......6........100
    Week 4......6........94
    Week 5......5........49
    Week 6......5........35

    Obviously the last two weeks don't look great, but our offense in general has looked terrible the last two weeks.

    Now let's look at our hero Sanders

    ...............Rec.....Yds
    Week 1......5........49
    Week 2......3........39
    Week 3......9........117
    Week 4......8........88
    Week 5......7........80
    Week 6......4........40

    Compared together we can now see that Sanders and Thomas actually have relatively similar stats. In fact Thomas has 416 total yards and Sanders has 413 total yards. Sanders had a better week 5 than Thomas but Thomas had a better week 2.

    TD getting worse may have some slight merit in the eye test, but that's all.

  6. #276
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    I 70 Westbound
    Posts
    7,842
    You just proved the point.
    Stats don't tell the story.
    -
    Sanders leaves it all on the field..
    you see it every game...
    and it is right after a big contract.
    -
    DT only gives his all on certain plays...
    in certain situations.
    -
    If citing stats makes ya happy.. cool for ya...
    but they just don't tell us about who the guy is CHOOSING to be.
    -
    I wish it was different.... but it aint.
    he is STILL the same guy he was last year..
    excuses and all.
    -
    Decent personal stats might make him feel good..
    but it don't get us first downs...
    and THAT is what counts.
    - Go Broncos 2017 and Beyond! -

    Super Bowl 50 CHAMPIONS!

  7. #277
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    32,786
    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I know you don't agree with the stats but DT has been fairly consistent in catching the same percentage of his targets year in and year out, only last year did it drop but that's because Peyton couldn't get the ball where it needed to be anymore. All this was never a problem until last year, people have always questioned his aggression on the field, but they haven't really complained about production until last year when the offense nose dived. But my point is, not only have those drops always been there but so have the poorly played balls in the air.

    DT isn't very aggressive, I'll give you that but I don't think that's a huge problem because he is more clutch than people realize. The first KC game last year is a great example, yeah Sanders was the one who scored but DT kept that drive alive by making one handed catches with 3 people on him. He's aggressive when he has to be and my theory on that is, he's not durable, he gets dinged up a lot, do you really want to see him dive for a pass just outside his reach only to drop it when he breaks his collar bone coming down? Sanders can do all that because he rarely gets hurt, DT can't and he knows it's more important that he's out there playing because if he isn't this offense will be in big trouble.
    I am fine with what you say. I was going to avoid this thread from the outset, but I chose to offer my insights. I am a DT fan. But from the deepest part of my football IQ (as low as it may be), if pressed to give an answer, I would say he is not as good as he was, based on the money he is earning. I have seen far to many times when he seemed to pull up on a pass, or even drop them. I made the analogy earlier, some short stops seem to have poorer fielding stats, but those players are sometimes the ones who get to more balls. That's the player I want, the guy who makes plays that the other guy can not, and might make a few more errors over a long season. BUT he will get to balls the other guy does not, and will make key plays when the game is on the line. That's why you pay more money. It's the talent combined with the effort. Stats are important, but so is observation.
    Last edited by CanDB; 10-19-2016 at 09:18 PM.

  8. #278
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Derby, Kansas, United States
    Posts
    27,066
    Quote Originally Posted by PAINTERDAVE View Post
    You just proved the point.
    Stats don't tell the story.
    -
    Sanders leaves it all on the field..
    you see it every game...
    and it is right after a big contract.
    -
    DT only gives his all on certain plays...
    in certain situations.
    -
    If citing stats makes ya happy.. cool for ya...
    but they just don't tell us about who the guy is CHOOSING to be.
    -
    I wish it was different.... but it aint.
    he is STILL the same guy he was last year..
    excuses and all.
    -
    Decent personal stats might make him feel good..
    but it don't get us first downs...

    and THAT is what counts.
    Funny...because he has 17 first downs this year...only 6 less than Sanders... As a team we're averaging 20 first downs per game which is in the top half of the league. We'd be even higher if our offensive line would quit committing stupid penalties negating big plays. We are 8th in the league in offensive penalties...

    Personal stats do equal first downs....If he has 120 yards in the game and he averages 13 yards a play, chances are he's getting first downs. His personal stats do impact the outcome of the game. Even if he isn't the one to get the score if he helps us get in scoring range so a TE or RB can make the score, it still has a positive impact.
    Last edited by Freyaka; 10-19-2016 at 09:33 PM.


  9. #279
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    151
    Thanks that was part of the point I was trying to make as well. The fact is that his stats indicate he has an impact in game.

    Here's something else to consider: he's currently averaging 5 receptions a game. That's not a whole lot...literally 1.25 catches per quarter. On the other hand he's also averaging 70-75 yards per game which is 15 yards a catch. That's a new set of downs right there. Again with only 1.25 receptions per quarter, it's easy to see why it looks like he has no impact.. but over the course of the entire game, it adds up.

  10. #280
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    3,110
    I love the title of this thread.. Its sweet justice for me so to speak.. I got blasted by so many Bronco fans when I said NOT to pay DT all that money.. NOBODY wanted to listen to Peytons girl..lol I just seen it to many times over the years ..where Peyton takes guys no namers and makes them household names and then when they move on away from him or in last years case a new system installed the guys fall a apart. Reggie Wayne and Pierre Garcon but more Reggie is the exception.
    Imo I think they would have been better off just rolling guys in and out of DT's spot but looks like y'all are stuck with him for awhile.

  11. #281
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    9,722
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I love the title of this thread.. Its sweet justice for me so to speak.. I got blasted by so many Bronco fans when I said NOT to pay DT all that money.. NOBODY wanted to listen to Peytons girl..lol I just seen it to many times over the years ..where Peyton takes guys no namers and makes them household names and then when they move on away from him or in last years case a new system installed the guys fall a apart. Reggie Wayne and Pierre Garcon but more Reggie is the exception.
    Imo I think they would have been better off just rolling guys in and out of DT's spot but looks like y'all are stuck with him for awhile.
    Get out of here with that. DT showed some tremendous playmaking ability with Tebow, especially against the Vikings and Steelers. Manning granted, did get him paid, but DT has had the talent and I'm sure many, including myself, are frustrated that he has been playing below his potential.

    I'd also point out Eric Decker has done pretty well for himself as a Jet and hasn't fallen apart.

  12. #282
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    3,110
    Quote Originally Posted by LSIGRAD09 View Post
    Get out of here with that. DT showed some tremendous playmaking ability with Tebow, especially against the Vikings and Steelers. Manning granted, did get him paid, but DT has had the talent and I'm sure many, including myself, are frustrated that he has been playing below his potential.

    I'd also point out Eric Decker has done pretty well for himself as a Jet and hasn't fallen apart.
    When you are paying a guy 70 plus million dollars dude , he best be playing top notch in EVERY game not just 2 or 3..
    Decker...lol I like the guy but its not rocket science with the Jets .. the Jets have fallen apart . When you have a bunch of yuck the least yuck is gonna be the best of the yuck,,haha Besides the QB's up there are awful .

  13. #283
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    14,413
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I love the title of this thread.. Its sweet justice for me so to speak.. I got blasted by so many Bronco fans when I said NOT to pay DT all that money.. NOBODY wanted to listen to Peytons girl..lol I just seen it to many times over the years ..where Peyton takes guys no namers and makes them household names and then when they move on away from him or in last years case a new system installed the guys fall a apart. Reggie Wayne and Pierre Garcon but more Reggie is the exception.
    Imo I think they would have been better off just rolling guys in and out of DT's spot but looks like y'all are stuck with him for awhile.
    Great story, too bad you left out the part about Pierre Garçon's best season coming in Washington, without Manning. He never fell apart like you claim.

    Part of the problem with a lot of the things you say is that you try to shoehorn it into your "Manning is the reason the sun rises" narrative, so it's hard to take a lot of it seriously.

    And as pointed out by the poster before me, Thomas excelled with Tebow as his QB (statistically the best WR over the last month of the season in 2011) yes Manning helped him raise his game even higher, but Thomas isn't just a product of Manning. Neither were Wayne or Garçon.

  14. #284
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    14,413
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    When you are paying a guy 70 plus million dollars dude , he best be playing top notch in EVERY game not just 2 or 3..
    Decker...lol I like the guy but its not rocket science with the Jets .. the Jets have fallen apart . When you have a bunch of yuck the least yuck is gonna be the best of the yuck,,haha Besides the QB's up there are awful .
    Manning got paid $15 million last year and didn't deliver at a high level each game, in fact he was awful in most. I expect you'll be consistent and say he didn't earn that money?

    And Decker was also very good with Tebow, not a product of Manning.

    Whether they're worth the contracts they have is a fair debate, but please quit trying to pretend that the only reason they're in the NFL is because of Manning.

  15. #285
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    657
    Here's the difference I see between DT's performance and ES' performance: Sanders seems to make the play when needed where DT seems that for every play he makes, he muffs an easy one. That'e the perception I have, and it seems many others do as well.

    The bigger issue I have with DT is that he's the highest paid player on the Offense and has seemingly zero fire or leadership out there. I know he's a captain but when things aren't going right, I don't want my leaders to hang their head and mopingly jog back to the huddle. I want to see some emotion and fire out there. Not OBJ level nuttiness, just some rah-rah on the sidelines and huddle. Sanders seems to do this a bit, it would be nice to see DT be a more active leader out there.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •