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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    You've just described the 1999-until now Broncos. This team has had historically bad redzone play over the last 15+ years
    The stats don't really hold up for this one. Since at least 2003 we've had plenty of years of top 10 redzone TD % and some average years, and some worse than average years. No regular trend of bad redzone scoring ability.

  2. #32
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    Siemian doesn't have the time or ability right now to go through multiple progressions. This means the passing plays will primarily go to the best two receivers on team. We don't have a passer like Manning who can spread the ball to everybody, instead we have a young QB who will lock onto his best option.

    As others stated execution is a huge part of it. Booker fumbles while trying to reach for a TD, Okung whiffs on a block causing a sack fumble, Norwood tips a ball up for a pick six. Last week Norwood doesn't drag his toes after a great pass by Siemian under pressure, DT drops a deep pass and another is called back on a penalty. This is just a handful of plays off the top of head that if the players make an easy play we're not even having this discussion right now.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Siemian doesn't have the time or ability right now to go through multiple progressions. This means the passing plays will primarily go to the best two receivers on team. We don't have a passer like Manning who can spread the ball to everybody, instead we have a young QB who will lock onto his best option.

    As others stated execution is a huge part of it. Booker fumbles while trying to reach for a TD, Okung whiffs on a block causing a sack fumble, Norwood tips a ball up for a pick six. Last week Norwood doesn't drag his toes after a great pass by Siemian under pressure, DT drops a deep pass and another is called back on a penalty. This is just a handful of plays off the top of head that if the players make an easy play we're not even having this discussion right now.
    Cps when I get to my computer.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    You've just described the 1999-until now Broncos. This team has had historically bad redzone play over the last 15+ years. I'm fairly certain just about every team Kubiak has coached has had issues putting the ball in the endzone but moves great between the 20s.
    Red zone percentages
    2016 24th 50%
    2015 28th 46.15%
    2014 4rd 63.49%
    2013 1st 72.73%
    2012 6th 60.87%
    2011 26th 44.19%
    2010 13th 55.77%
    2009 24th 48.08%
    2008 16th 54.55%
    2007 21st 49.02%
    2006 11th 54.55%
    2005 7th 60.00%
    2004 27th 46.43%
    2003 5th 61.40%


    So basically...No, she just described the Tebow/Orton and Cutler years. We've had solid years of red zone production mixed in.

    Since 2003 (the earliest data I could find) Our average rank over that timespan (even with some crappy years) is 15th and average percentage is 54.80%.

    Can't put our bad years on Kubiak since he wasn't even coaching here then...

    Since you want to make this into a Kubiak issue, here is his numbers

    2014 13th 54.93%
    2013 28th 48.78% (he was sick for a chunk of this year and fired)
    2012 14th 54.69
    2011 23rd 47.62
    2010 5th 62.26
    2009 13th 52.46
    2008 26th 45.90
    2007 4th 60.87
    2006 9th 57.14
    2005 7th 60.00%
    2004 27th 46.43%
    2003 5th 61.40%


    He averages over his tenure as coach an average red zone rank of 14.5 and average percentage of 54.37%.

    It's not as simply as "his teams can't score" they can, just like our team has been able to. It's that we and he as well have consistency issues when the team isn't talented...Like we are now....Oh sure we have some talent, but we lack talent in the areas crucial for any team to succeed.

    5 years of that 12 years worth of data was top 10 in red zone, 3 were in the top 15. Only 4 were actually "bad" years of scoring...So 4 years out of 12....That's not that bad Cory.

    *edit* yes, I recognize after the fact that I didn't include his two years with us in 2015 and now...yes the numbers are off...Still, you get the idea.
    Last edited by Freyaka; 11-02-2016 at 09:59 AM.


  5. #35
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    I don't see Norwood's value at all. Sure, he looks like he should be a slot receiver, but I've lost track of the times he hasn't made catches of average difficulty, let alone make a standout play. I just don't see how an inconsistent veteran with no big play ability is a better option than inconsistent young WR's who have flashed ability. For situations when he's in the game now, I'd much rather see Fowler or Sunshine get a chance.

    That said, I think a lot of the missing creativity boils down to the run game not getting it done and penalties putting us in bad passing situations. Then not enough time for Siemian to get through progressions or let routes develop. Some of that is on Siemian being a slow decision maker compared with more experienced QB's, but a lot is on the oline.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgobronco View Post
    I don't see Norwood's value at all. Sure, he looks like he should be a slot receiver, but I've lost track of the times he hasn't made catches of average difficulty, let alone make a standout play. I just don't see how an inconsistent veteran with no big play ability is a better option than inconsistent young WR's who have flashed ability. For situations when he's in the game now, I'd much rather see Fowler or Sunshine get a chance.

    That said, I think a lot of the missing creativity boils down to the run game not getting it done and penalties putting us in bad passing situations. Then not enough time for Siemian to get through progressions or let routes develop. Some of that is on Siemian being a slow decision maker compared with more experienced QB's, but a lot is on the oline.
    The running game is getting it done better than last year by about 250 yards...It still needs to be even better than that, but I don't think you can blame the running game for the coach going extremely pass heavy in the first half of some games, especially since the running game is working in most of those situations when we actually attempt to us it.


  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    The running game is getting it done better than last year by about 250 yards...It still needs to be even better than that, but I don't think you can blame the running game for the coach going extremely pass heavy in the first half of some games, especially since the running game is working in most of those situations when we actually attempt to us it.
    If I remember correctly SD was stacking the box to stuff the run quite heavily so I imagine kubiak wanted to take advantage of it.

  8. #38
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Red zone percentages
    2016 24th 50%
    2015 28th 46.15%
    2014 4rd 63.49%
    2013 1st 72.73%
    2012 6th 60.87%
    2011 26th 44.19%
    2010 13th 55.77%
    2009 24th 48.08%
    2008 16th 54.55%
    2007 21st 49.02%
    2006 11th 54.55%
    2005 7th 60.00%
    2004 27th 46.43%
    2003 5th 61.40%


    So basically...No, she just described the Tebow/Orton and Cutler years. We've had solid years of red zone production mixed in.

    Since 2003 (the earliest data I could find) Our average rank over that timespan (even with some crappy years) is 15th and average percentage is 54.80%.

    Can't put our bad years on Kubiak since he wasn't even coaching here then...

    Since you want to make this into a Kubiak issue, here is his numbers

    2014 13th 54.93%
    2013 28th 48.78% (he was sick for a chunk of this year and fired)
    2012 14th 54.69
    2011 23rd 47.62
    2010 5th 62.26
    2009 13th 52.46
    2008 26th 45.90
    2007 4th 60.87
    2006 9th 57.14
    2005 7th 60.00%
    2004 27th 46.43%
    2003 5th 61.40%


    He averages over his tenure as coach an average red zone rank of 14.5 and average percentage of 54.37%.

    It's not as simply as "his teams can't score" they can, just like our team has been able to. It's that we and he as well have consistency issues when the team isn't talented...Like we are now....Oh sure we have some talent, but we lack talent in the areas crucial for any team to succeed.

    5 years of that 12 years worth of data was top 10 in red zone, 3 were in the top 15. Only 4 were actually "bad" years of scoring...So 4 years out of 12....That's not that bad Cory.

    *edit* yes, I recognize after the fact that I didn't include his two years with us in 2015 and now...yes the numbers are off...Still, you get the idea.
    Did you just average averages? Your math teacher would be very upset with you.

    Hooray, beer!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    Did you just average averages? Your math teacher would be very upset with you.
    Well....she's my mom so....I really don't care how she feels


  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    The running game is getting it done better than last year by about 250 yards...It still needs to be even better than that, but I don't think you can blame the running game for the coach going extremely pass heavy in the first half of some games, especially since the running game is working in most of those situations when we actually attempt to us it.
    Kubiak recently said "We have to do a better job in running game..." In the first game vs. Chargers 75% of the snaps were passes. In last Sunday's game the Broncos passed 80% in the 1st half. For the OP's topic it would be great to get a 3rd WR involved more often - I just don't think it will matter without more focus on running. Kubiak says they need to get the run game going - with 20% of the snaps running in a half.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Siemian doesn't have the time or ability right now to go through multiple progressions. This means the passing plays will primarily go to the best two receivers on team. We don't have a passer like Manning who can spread the ball to everybody, instead we have a young QB who will lock onto his best option.

    As others stated execution is a huge part of it. Booker fumbles while trying to reach for a TD, Okung whiffs on a block causing a sack fumble, Norwood tips a ball up for a pick six. Last week Norwood doesn't drag his toes after a great pass by Siemian under pressure, DT drops a deep pass and another is called back on a penalty. This is just a handful of plays off the top of head that if the players make an easy play we're not even having this discussion right now.
    Yup. We have too many moving pieces that aren't working right now.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    This! Our play calling is stagnant, predictable and lacks creativity and Dennison or Kubes better figure out something. It more than frustrating to keep watching McManus kicking FGs after our defense gives us the ball at the 5-10 yard line and we still can't freaking score. I thought it was gonna be better than the crap we've been seeing especially in the RZ.
    We have almost always had RZ issues with the ZBS. Mostly because the defense does. It have defend as much turf.
    (The real only exception was when TD and the SB OL was going)
    Shanahan always addressed this each year we have to get better in the RZ. Elam led the league in scoring many years kicking those 30-45 yarders.

    So it is inherent in the scheme unless you have. A great QB and good to great OL it will be hard to blast it in the end zone.

    Now that said we have a trio of 6-4 players that can catch the ball high. Perhaps more
    Passes into the EZ will increase TD production.

  13. #43
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    Meant to mention it I really like 87. Reminds me a lot of Eddie Mac. Tall not afraid to catch the ball has enough speed to get some YAC.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield View Post
    Meant to mention it I really like 87. Reminds me a lot of Eddie Mac. Tall not afraid to catch the ball has enough speed to get some YAC.
    What do you think of Thomas and Taylor on the outside with Sanders in the slot?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
    What do you think of Thomas and Taylor on the outside with Sanders in the slot?
    I think it would be effective personally. Sanders could be deadly in the slot with his route running ability and speed. Having to big tall quick recievers on the outside could give us some more options downfield with Sanders on a shorter route.


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