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Thread: Special Teams

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    A lot of assumptions here. The first one has nothing to do with Norwood, but the team in general. It's not his fault if the opposition is continually able to get it around their 10 (before return) that's on the O and the D, not the punt returner. Next, if you're a STC and you're happily giving up 15 yards per return, you're about to get fired, that's horrible. And on the flip side, if you're the Broncos and your returner is the difference between you starting at the 10 or the 25, you'd be ecstatic.

    Next the point about YAC on punt returns is your general opinion, you have no stat to back that up. He's averaging over 10 yards per return, as a STC, you're pretty happy with your return unit getting that. As for his blocking, that's the difference between a 10 yard return and a touchdown. It doesn't matter how good of a returner you are without some decent blocking, you're not going to break one. Denver's blocking is okay, but all it takes is 1 missed block and your returner is getting stopped quickly. My question, how many block in the back and holding penalties have the Denver punt return unit had?

    As for your other comment, again, it's your opinion. When it's 3rd and 10, the defense is dropping 10 yards and giving up short routes because they know they can rally to the ball before the first down, you're not going to often break long plays. And this is a team problem, they've all had this happen, because Siemian is so quick to check down. The defense loves the check down, because it stops the first down. Your real gripe should be with the QB throwing a 3 yard pass on 3rd and long, not with the receiver who can't then gain 7+ yards.
    I should have read your posts first.

    The main thing I'm trying to say about Norwood is that he's not some awful returner/receiver. Is he dynamic or a player that's going to break returns for TDs or 50+ yards several games a season? Not likely. He is not a top receiver - if he were he would have received a longer contract at a higher price.

    I've mainly been frustrated with him on a couple of the passes that he did not catch that turned into INTs.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    What is making up real ground? Norwood is averaging 10.3 per return so on some returns he's moving the ball more than the equivalent of a first down for the offense. Given the fact that Denver has the lowest percentage of 1st downs/drives in the league, his returns have helped provide better field position compared to 17 other returners that qualify.

    As for receiving yards he has 19 receptions/10.7 yards per reception. I'm not sure of all the targets, were those 1st, 2nd or 3rd and 8 - or were those 2nd and 12 for a first down?

    He only has 3 kick returns and long was 27 - not sure if this is counted from the goal line or received in the end zone and returned.
    One of his recent on was the fairly long TD catch I do not have time to check but I think that catch was 25 yds +. I won't lie it was a great play but his great plays seem to be rare.

    Your other reception questions are valid and they types of questions and issues I have with some of the stats.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    One of his recent on was the fairly long TD catch I do not have time to check but I think that catch was 25 yds +. I won't lie it was a great play but his great plays seem to be rare.

    Your other reception questions are valid and they types of questions and issues I have with some of the stats.
    I don't think he's expected to make a lot of big plays - he will make 880,000 with base salary and bonus this season. He runs the routes for the plays called. He's only been targeted 31 times. Compare that to DT 85 targets and Sanders 95 - they have more opportunities and different routes.

  4. #49
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    I'd like to see the KOR stats kept on a results basis.

    1. Catch on 5, tackle on 15, 10 yd return,
    2. Catch in EZ, tackle on 15, 10 yd loss return. But I bet they count it as a 15 yd return now.
    3. Catch in EZ, tackle on opponent's 10 yd line, holding on the return team at own 10yd line, result ball on the 5yd line. Should count as 20yd loss.
    4. Catch in EZ, kneel down, probably not counted as a return at all but I would count it as 25yds.

  5. #50
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyFlash1 View Post
    I'd like to see the KOR stats kept on a results basis.

    1. Catch on 5, tackle on 15, 10 yd return,
    2. Catch in EZ, tackle on 15, 10 yd loss return. But I bet they count it as a 15 yd return now.
    3. Catch in EZ, tackle on opponent's 10 yd line, holding on the return team at own 10yd line, result ball on the 5yd line. Should count as 20yd loss.
    4. Catch in EZ, kneel down, probably not counted as a return at all but I would count it as 25yds.
    I get where you are going with this. Good saber-metrics for SP. Teams. That would be something I would want from a coaching/decision making perspective.

  6. #51
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyFlash1 View Post
    I'd like to see the KOR stats kept on a results basis.

    1. Catch on 5, tackle on 15, 10 yd return,
    2. Catch in EZ, tackle on 15, 10 yd loss return. But I bet they count it as a 15 yd return now.
    3. Catch in EZ, tackle on opponent's 10 yd line, holding on the return team at own 10yd line, result ball on the 5yd line. Should count as 20yd loss.
    4. Catch in EZ, kneel down, probably not counted as a return at all but I would count it as 25yds.
    Returns starting in the end zone count the end zone yards in the return. So if you catch the ball 5 yards deep in the EZ and return it to the 25 you have a 30 yard return. That's how it's possible for players to have 108 yard returns.

    As for counting touchbacks as returns, they never had a return, so why would they count those as yards gained? That would be the same as counting every fair catch as a 0 yard punt return, rather than just a FC with no return taking place. And if you're going to start counting any return caught in the end zone and taken out as a negative until they get to the 25, shouldn't that also mean that a 100 yard touchdown return be considered a 75 yard touchdown return? You can't just all of a sudden give a player credit for those 25 yards when you're considering a return to the 24 as a -1 yard return.

  7. #52
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    Oct 2008
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    Denver
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    809
    I don't think he was referring to changing official NFL stats - his example was a determinant of yardage based off of KR or kneel down. It's not tracked as a comparative difference yet...

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