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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    Leinart would have failed anywhere because he had poor work ethic. It has been vastly documented. Imagine Ken Whisenhunt, as a head coach, working with a #10 overall pick that did not take his job seriously. It's obvious they would not get along. Leinart did not have maturity to be a franchise QB. When a QB can play and the coach/team is the problem, they go somewhere else and shine. See Steve Young, Brett Favre, etc. Matt Leinart and Vince Young failed everywhere they've been because they did not prepare like an NFL QB has to. Athletic ability can only take you so far in the NFL.

    That's why Trevor Siemian has exceeded expectations for a 7th-round pick. He "gets it". He seems to be smart and spent one season learning how Peyton Manning studied and prepared every week. I bet Siemian arrived early to watch film and was one of the last ones to leave. That's how he absorbs the playbook, runs the offense better than the other QBs and is able to win the starting job.

    http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/3138/matt-leinart









    Not even Kurt Warner was his supporter. Leinart was already limited by his average arm strength. He was a checkdown artist. Combine that with his poor work ethic and it was never going to work. NFL QBs have to be mature beyond their years and they have to grind. There is no other way.
    Motivation was never at all a problem for Matt at Sc

    Granted Pete Carroll is known as a great motivator

    I still think there was something going on there between Matt and wisenhunt that kept Matt from grinding and performing there.

    Just think about it. Leinart was the top dawg at a college in a city that offered more spotlight and glory than 90% of NFL teams could ever offer him. Seriously. Winning the ship and Heisman at USC > winning the super bowl for majority of NFL teams. Playing for Pete Carroll > 90% of NFL coaches.

    Stepping down from USC star QB to backup for a weak coach and backup for an offense he didn't fit just wasn't going to work for him

    I'm not defending Matt for his lack of ability to make it work but Denver is one of those few NFL teams that could've set him up for success. Leinart also didn't get a second opportunity in another place ala Favre, as you mentioned. AL Davis wasnt really a career reviver

    Cutler will never have half the heart that lion heart did
    Last edited by SoundsOfSuccess; 02-26-2017 at 01:48 PM.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundsOfSuccess View Post
    Motivation was never at all a problem for Matt at Sc

    Granted Pete Carroll is known as a great motivator

    I still think there was something going on there between Matt and wisenhunt that kept Matt from grinding and performing there.

    Just think about it. Leinart was the top dawg at a college in a city that offered more spotlight and glory than 90% of NFL teams could ever offer him. Seriously. Winning the ship and Heisman at USC > winning the super bowl for majority of NFL teams. Playing for Pete Carroll > 90% of NFL coaches.

    Stepping down from USC star QB to backup for a weak coach and backup for an offense he didn't fit just wasn't going to work for him

    I'm not defending Matt for his lack of ability to make it work but Denver is one of those few NFL teams that could've set him up for success. Leinart also didn't get a second opportunity in another place ala Favre, as you mentioned. AL Davis wasnt really a career reviver

    Cutler will never have half the heart that lion heart did
    Also Al Davis was notorious for wanting a big arm QB who could throw it "vootical" that's one of the reasons they took Jamarcus Russell, he could throw it through the uprights while on his knees at midfield.

    Players respond differently to different coaches, Leinart responded to Carroll and there were no questions of work ethic etc. With a different coaching staff, who he could connect to, I think he has better results.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  3. #168
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    I don't know if you watched A Football Life: The 2006 Rose Bowl by NFL Films. It's a documentary that includes the college success and NFL failures of Leinart and Young.

    Both Leinart and Young admit they were immature and did not take their jobs seriously at the time.

    I can't find the whole documentary, but there are articles with quotes from the QBs:

    Leinart:

    http://awfulannouncing.com/2014/nfl-...ball-life.html

    One quote from Leinart hit like a lightning bolt considering what we’ve seen this season in Cleveland from Johnny Manziel, “Early on in my career I didn’t take it as seriously as I should have.”
    Young:

    http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spor...he-5989694.php

    Young also acknowledged his NFL failures, adding: "I was an immature young man, unprofessional … it was so overwhelming for me. I didn't know how to take a lot of that in. People were calling asking for money – 'I need this, I need that,' and you're also trying to be a starting quarterback in the NFL and you want to perform, and it was a lot."

    Texas defensive back Michael Griffin, who played with Young in Tennessee, said of Young, "I know he loved football tremendously, but, at the same time, I think, you know, he might also loved what came with it. And he might have loved that a little bit more than he actually loved football."
    It's one thing to shine in college when you're having fun, it's not a job, you are surrounded by a lot of talent and everything is wide open down the field.

    It's another thing to have the maturity and commitment to grind in the NFL, become a leader in a locker room with grown men, master a much more complex playbook with a lot of details and then fit throws into tight windows.

    Leinart spent two seasons in Houston before going to Oakland. He was also signed by the Bills in 2013 and was outplayed by Thaddeus Lewis. He worked out for several teams as a free agent. The concerns about his work ethic certainly scared teams away. Even with Pete Carroll in Seattle, the Seahawks worked out both Leinart and Brady Quinn and chose Quinn to be Russell WIlson's backup during the offseason.

    I can't say Leinart did not have his chances. He was a part of 4 NFL teams. He just was not good enough.
    Last edited by -Rod-; 02-26-2017 at 02:16 PM.
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  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    I don't know if you watched A Football Life: The 2006 Rose Bowl by NFL Films. It's a documentary that includes the college success and NFL failures of Leinart and Young.

    Both Leinart and Young admit they were immature and did not take their jobs seriously at the time.

    I can't find the whole documentary, but there are articles with quotes from the QBs:

    Leinart:

    http://awfulannouncing.com/2014/nfl-...ball-life.html



    Young:

    http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spor...he-5989694.php



    It's one thing to shine in college when you're having fun, it's not a job, you are surrounded by a lot of talent and everything is wide open down the field.

    It's another thing to have the maturity and commitment to grind in the NFL, become a leader in a locker room with grown men, master a much more complex playbook with a lot of details and then fit throws into tight windows.

    Leinart spent two seasons in Houston before going to Oakland. He was also signed by the Bills in 2013 and was outplayed by Thaddeus Lewis. He worked out for several teams as a free agent. The concerns about his work ethic certainly scared teams away. Even with Pete Carroll in Seattle, the Seahawks worked out both Leinart and Brady Quinn and chose Quinn to be Russell WIlson's backup during the offseason.

    I can't say Leinart did not have his chances. He was a part of 4 NFL teams. He just was not good enough.
    That sounds like an interesting watch

    For his career to have fizzled like it did, I can't say that it was entirely not Matt's fault. At some point, a guy's gotta kinda nut up and figure out how to make it work.

    The immaturity and lack of drive topics make sense though. I can see it. Its hard to do what he or (they) did in college and not come into the pros with too big of a chip on one's shoulder.

    I stand by my stance that Leinart playing for Shanahan would've been very interesting at least and IMO probably would've turned his career in a totally different direction. It just would've been so much of a better fit.

    Young's interesting too, now that you bring him up. How bad did Jeff Fisher screw him up? Not to say Vince didn't screw himself, but it seems like Titans fans haven't forgiven Jeff for running Vince out of town.

    Its all shoulda-coulda-woulda hypothetical stuff we're talking about. Once one coaching staff gives up on a guy that's usually the end though, especially at QB. I think that first situation any draft pick is placed in is monumental in the path of any player's career. I think my take is more from a nuture over nature perspective, to really simplify what I'm trying to say here.
    Last edited by SoundsOfSuccess; 02-26-2017 at 03:38 PM.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundsOfSuccess View Post
    That sounds like an interesting watch

    For his career to have fizzled like it did, I can't say that it was entirely not Matt's fault. At some point, a guy's gotta kinda nut up and figure out how to make it work.

    The immaturity and lack of drive topics make sense though. I can see it. Its hard to do what he or (they) did in college and not come into the pros with too big of a chip on one's shoulder.

    I stand by my stance that Leinart playing for Shanahan would've been very interesting at least and IMO probably would've turned his career in a totally different direction. It just would've been so much of a better fit.

    Young's interesting too, now that you bring him up. How bad did Jeff Fisher screw him up? Not to say Vince didn't screw himself, but it seems like Titans fans haven't forgiven Jeff for running Vince out of town.

    Its all shoulda-coulda-woulda hypothetical stuff we're talking about. Once one coaching staff gives up on a guy that's usually the end though, especially at QB. I think that first situation any draft pick is placed in is monumental in the path of any player's career. I think my take is more from a nuture over nature perspective, to really simplify what I'm trying to say here.
    To be fair to Fisher, Young was forced on him by the owner. He apparently preferred Cutler. Say what you want about Cutler. He's still in the league while Young isn't.
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  6. #171
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    Really as he left a lot of bad taste in the mouths of the Broncos fans remember? He would not be welcomed with open arms.
    Happy Thanksgiving!

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    I never thought I'd be saying this, but if there's serious consideration for bringing in someone like Romo, who's made of glass, is there really no thought of Cutler?

    His leadership hasn't been the greatest and his decision making has been suspect from time to time. However, one thing for sure is he can move the chains. Maybe I'm alone on this one, but I was seriously worried about our offense last year, because I didn't see how our defense could be that dominant again and had doubt we could score many points on O. Even after the 4-0, I wasn't convinced. Many are saying be patient with Siemian, but I'm just not a fan of letting this defense and the playmakers we have on offense age while we hope Trevor catches on. I feel like we have a lot of tools on offense (two pro bowl WRs and a pro bowl RB) but a QB that at best will be Alex Smith 2.0.

    Again, I'm not really a Cutler fan, but at this point, I just want a guy that can move the chains. I'm not even really worried about putting up 35 points a game, but keeping the offense on the field. I'm tired of these consistent 3 and out drives which limit our chances to score and doesn't allow the defense to rest. Cutler's salary is only supposed to be around $12 mil and isn't guaranteed. He'll likely be cut, and if Elway can get his price down to around 8-10, with incentives, I think I pull the trigger on a 2 year deal, and then look to turn it over to Lynch.
    You're tired of three and outs and you recommend bringing back the interception machine?
    I really like Cheese.

  8. #173
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    Gosh I hope Jay retires so he cant be considered here.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPT1974 View Post
    Really as he left a lot of bad taste in the mouths of the Broncos fans remember? He would not be welcomed with open arms.

    I'm not a Cutler fan. I've only said if we're considering Romo (which is on the record), I think we should consider Cutler, who has is issues, but flat out is a better option IMO than an always injured Romo. Our offense made me sick to my stomach last year.

    I understand Cutler turned a lot of fans against him when he left. However, his dispute was with Josh McDaniels. It's terrible to think about, but which do you dislike more: McDaniels or Cutler? Cutler seemed a little immature, but things went downhill after Cutler said McDaniels lied to him from the jump and clearly didn't want him.

    Again, I'M NOT A CUTLER FAN and I doubt we'll sign him. However, our offense desperately needs a QB that can maximize the two above average WRs we have. At around $10 mil a season, Cutler is worth consideration in my book.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    I'm not a Cutler fan. I've only said if we're considering Romo (which is on the record), I think we should consider Cutler, who has is issues, but flat out is a better option IMO than an always injured Romo. Our offense made me sick to my stomach last year.

    I understand Cutler turned a lot of fans against him when he left. However, his dispute was with Josh McDaniels. It's terrible to think about, but which do you dislike more: McDaniels or Cutler? Cutler seemed a little immature, but things went downhill after Cutler said McDaniels lied to him from the jump and clearly didn't want him.

    Again, I'M NOT A CUTLER FAN and I doubt we'll sign him. However, our offense desperately needs a QB that can maximize the two above average WRs we have. At around $10 mil a season, Cutler is worth consideration in my book.
    I think even if we take the whole Cutler/McDaniels thing out of context and judge him solely on his playing time in Chicago, I still don't want him. He's not a professional that takes his job super seriously, and he is one of the last QB's I want mentoring Lynch. Even if Tony Romo got hurt again, he could at least be a good teacher for Paxton on the sideline.

  11. #176
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    Bringing in any aging QB would be a bad idea. First off that means Trevor is most likely gone. I would rather keep Trevor who is so much younger and is still learning to play in the NFL.. You might could get a couple of years of contention with a veteran QB but then we would be back at square one if Lynch is not the real thing. I believe with improved O-line play Trevor could do a better job. Point is O-line has to be the first priority, or it wont matter who is under center.

  12. #177
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    This thread should hack dies like two days ago..

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolassiter View Post
    Bringing in any aging QB would be a bad idea. First off that means Trevor is most likely gone. I would rather keep Trevor who is so much younger and is still learning to play in the NFL.. You might could get a couple of years of contention with a veteran QB but then we would be back at square one if Lynch is not the real thing. I believe with improved O-line play Trevor could do a better job. Point is O-line has to be the first priority, or it wont matter who is under center.
    With this defense why is it so hard for people to understand the NFL is a win now league. The odds of building a dynasty in Denver like NE has is a million to one.

    A vet qb gives this team an opportunity to WIN it all NOW. Just look at the team contract going past the 2019-2020 seasons. The broncos have a 3 year window to get another chip before another overhaul.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by rst08tierney View Post
    With this defense why is it so hard for people to understand the NFL is a win now league. The odds of building a dynasty in Denver like NE has is a million to one.

    A vet qb gives this team an opportunity to WIN it all NOW. Just look at the team contract going past the 2019-2020 seasons. The broncos have a 3 year window to get another chip before another overhaul.
    Yeah, but with Jay Cutler? I don't see it at all.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by rst08tierney View Post
    With this defense why is it so hard for people to understand the NFL is a win now league. The odds of building a dynasty in Denver like NE has is a million to one.

    A vet qb gives this team an opportunity to WIN it all NOW. Just look at the team contract going past the 2019-2020 seasons. The broncos have a 3 year window to get another chip before another overhaul.
    NE isn't a dynasty, they need 1 more championship for this run to enter dynasty talk like their other run in 2001-2004. But dynasties don't take 10 years between championships.

    That aside, if Jay Cutler is the answer, I don't want to know the question. I'd rather have weight lifter Jay Cutler at QB over NFL Jay Cutler.

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