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  1. #31
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    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    OJ Howard is hands down the best TE in the draft. If we don't take him if he's still available I would be very disappointed. But let's be real...he's not going to be around at 20.
    It all depends on how many QBs are taken before 20.. if two are taken he will be there. If 0 have been taken he will he gone.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    are any of the tackles in the draft starter prospect to begin with? I'm hearing a lot of no's
    Bolles and Ramczyk can start day 1 at LT for Denver. Particularly since the biggest pass rush threats in our division rush the RT spot. RT was the position Broncos needed to secure this offseason via FA and they failed.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by munoz1987 View Post
    Bolles and Ramczyk can start day 1 at LT for Denver. Particularly since the biggest pass rush threats in our division rush the RT spot. RT was the position Broncos needed to secure this offseason via FA and they failed.
    naw man. We got Watson, quality signing bro.


    Superbowl 50 Champions!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    naw man. We got Watson, quality signing bro.


    Yeah Oaklands O-lines 6th man has Houston, Mack, & Bosa losing sleep at night.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by munoz1987 View Post
    Bolles and Ramczyk can start day 1 at LT for Denver. Particularly since the biggest pass rush threats in our division rush the RT spot. RT was the position Broncos needed to secure this offseason via FA and they failed.
    I can appreciate your optimism of starting any of the rookies at LT but where is it coming from?

    Every scouting report I have read or heard have them all graded as "possible starters in the future" or some variation of that.

    Even the repeatedly criticized Watson was graded as a day one starter. He has underachieved. My point is what is the quality of the player not the necessity to start him out of desperation.

    Whoever they line up, rookie or vet, just needs to be an upgrade and mesh with the other olineman. Hoping for the best.

  6. #36
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Even the repeatedly criticized Watson was graded as a day one starter.
    Watson? No, he was a very raw project. Watson was a soccer player, then went to the United States to play basketball. He only started playing football in college and was a 1-year starter at RT for Florida State, 25 years old as a rookie, a lot of technical flaws.

    Here's his draft profile:

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profil...son?id=2540206

    Still raw, limited football experience. Older than ideal. Hand placement is poor. Often hits outside of the frame, and will have a tendency to get overly grabby. Will result in more penalties in the NFL. Needs to play with a wider base. Inconsistent with his footwork.
    Watson has rare athletic ability on a tremendous frame. He has an explosive first step, light feet, and a powerful punch. There are a lot of things in his game that need to be cleaned up from a technique standpoint, and he will be 25 years old in his rookie season. He can project to either tackle spot, or possibly even inside, at guard.
    Ramczyk, for example, was an All-American LT for Wisconsin, one of the best programs developing o-linemen for the NFL. He's much more qualified to play OT in the NFL than Menelik Watson was as a rookie. It's not even close.

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profil...zyk?id=2557959

    "He's really athletic and he's really smart. There are a lot of Wisconsin linemen who start in the league because they learn an NFL system and they are taught the right way. He played against Arden Key, Sam Hubbard and Taco Charlton. This guy is battle tested against three future first rounders." - NFC midwest scout
    Extremely confident tackle with the athleticism to stay on the left side and the technique to make an early impact as a starter. Ramczyk has the core strength and body control that should keep him connected to blocks in both the run and pass and he's proven to be scheme versatile with his playing style. Ramczyk is an early starter with the potential to become a good starting left tackle provided his medicals hold up.
    Menelik Watson is one of the worst OTs in the NFL, right or left.
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=349348&dateline=13355  71607

  7. #37
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    BPA at positions of need. Depending on how you translate need, that means we will have a handful of positions we can address in the first few rounds.

    Consider pure BPA in mid to late rounds, if outstanding talent significantly outweighs any key needs we have not addressed.

  8. #38
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    I think we almost no choice but to take the top OT at 20. Then I hope we try and trade up in the 2nd or the back end of the 1st for an impact player on offense or defense.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    I can appreciate your optimism of starting any of the rookies at LT but where is it coming from?

    Every scouting report I have read or heard have them all graded as "possible starters in the future" or some variation of that.

    Even the repeatedly criticized Watson was graded as a day one starter. He has underachieved. My point is what is the quality of the player not the necessity to start him out of desperation.

    Whoever they line up, rookie or vet, just needs to be an upgrade and mesh with the other olineman. Hoping for the best.
    We have 4 OTs on the roster and none of them are any good. Ramczyk from Wisconsin is an immediate upgrade over all of Denver's OTs. Put him next to Leary on the left side n he'll be best LT Denver's had since Clady 5yrs ago. Ramczyk is the best option out there unless Denver can pull off a miracle trade for Joe Thomas or Joe Staley, Which is never gonna happen.
    For the right side let's just pray that this coaching staff has the brains to have the TE chip the pass rusher n help out the RT before he gets into his route. The last coaching staff was clueless to that tactic.

  10. #40
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    Jul 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    Watson? No, he was a very raw project. Watson was a soccer player, then went to the United States to play basketball. He only started playing football in college and was a 1-year starter at RT for Florida State, 25 years old as a rookie, a lot of technical flaws.

    Here's his draft profile:

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profil...son?id=2540206





    Ramczyk, for example, was an All-American LT for Wisconsin, one of the best programs developing o-linemen for the NFL. He's much more qualified to play OT in the NFL than Menelik Watson was as a rookie. It's not even close.

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profil...zyk?id=2557959





    Menelik Watson is one of the worst OTs in the NFL, right or left.


    My comment was on the hype surrounding the 2017 olineman. They all have grades. Do they live up to them is the question. So far Watson has not. Perhaps all the 2017 OTs exceed expectations and grades. . It is a risk either way.

    Did you read the grades that were listed by those same analysts you quoted.?

    Watson 85.0 - earned him a straddle of these two grade groups.

    85-95 / Immediate starter.( 1st rd)- An impact player with the ability/intangibles to become a Pro Bowl player. Expect to start immediately except in a unique situation (i.e. behind a veteran starter).

    70-84 - Eventual starter- A quality player who will contribute to the team early on and is expected to develop into a starter. A reliable player who brings value to the position.

    2017 top graded OT is Ramczyk graded 6.2 ( changed grading system a couple years ago)

    6.00-6.49 Chance to become good NFL starter

    Point being no one knows how these guys eventual pan out. The grades are an educated guess. And as such I do not share the confidence that this years top OTs can just step in day one and be competent. Or are the assumed #20 BPA just because the Broncos are desperate to fill a OT position.

    Of course they can plug the hole with one of the rookies if that is all they have on the roster. Same as Siemian was considered the best QB available this past season by default. LT could come down to a Sanchez vs. Siemian vs. Lynch type decision.

    We will see what the scouts, coaches and Elway think soon enough.

  11. #41
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    Howard
    CMac
    Foster

    I think would be guys to skip over LT
    Maybe trade back up at the top of the 2nd to get a LT

  12. #42
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    Who would you take OJ Howard or Christian McCaffery if they were both available at #20, assuming we traded for Joe Thomas.
    Denver Broncos 2015 - Win AFC West Division: , Win AFC Conference: , Beat SB 49 Champs (2X): , Win SB 50:

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by haciendadad View Post
    Who would you take OJ Howard or Christian McCaffery if they were both available at #20, assuming we traded for Joe Thomas.
    Close, difficult decision but I would take McCaffrey. Even if they do not trade for Thomas.

    As a secondary question, any thoughts on Dalvin Cook still being available at #20? A month ago it sounded ridiculous and the general consensus was he would be drafted much earlier. Now starting to see mock drafts with him getting into the mid to high teens to even a couple after the Broncos pick. Still a coveted RB worthy of the #20 ? IMO a resounding yes.

  14. #44
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    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Close, difficult decision but I would take McCaffrey. Even if they do not trade for Thomas.

    As a secondary question, any thoughts on Dalvin Cook still being available at #20? A month ago it sounded ridiculous and the general consensus was he would be drafted much earlier. Now starting to see mock drafts with him getting into the mid to high teens to even a couple after the Broncos pick. Still a coveted RB worthy of the #20 ? IMO a resounding yes.
    I would put both Howard and Cook over mccaffery if all 3 were some how there at 20

  15. #45
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    Jul 2011
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    Alot of folks say BPA to justify picking McCaffrey but he wont even be bpa at #20. If teams start reaching for QBs(browns chargers cardinals all possible) which they do pretty much every year and teams May very well go ahead of us and take O-line (colts ravens) add in John ross 40 time and mike Williams and Cory davis (bills eagles saints titans). There is gonna be a good handful of players going alot earlier than they should leaving some very talented top 10 prospects sitting at #20 if we stay put. I just hope that when some real BPA drops in our lap we are not one of the teams reaching for a need or a hometown favorite.

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