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  1. #16
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    12 of the 22 starters were drafted or undrafted by the Broncos, then add in that players like Roby and Shane Ray would be starting on a lot of others teams. Also, Malik Jackson, Osweiler, Danny T, JT, and Decker would all be starters but left for more money.

    Overall its been a vast improvement from when Shanahan was here, at one point DJ Williams was the only drafted player on the teams from like 7 years worth of drafts.

    I would say, to have 12 starters is good based off the fact they drafted 20 or later the last 5 years. You also have to keep in mind that there were drafted players with potential who didn't make the team because they were buried on the depth chart, Tavares King, who started to show potential in the playoffs this year, comes to mind in that category.

    Yes, there's been some whiffs, Ball and Latimer probably the biggest. But, this silly article doesn't take into account all factors. IMO, the two biggest things that have affected the draft are where we have drafted, and the overall talent has limited the playing time for players with potential. Who knows where Shane Ray, Roby, Shaq Barrett (yes I know he was undrafted), and even Latimer would be right now if they were starters from day 1.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    12 of the 22 starters were drafted or undrafted by the Broncos, then add in that players like Roby and Shane Ray would be starting on a lot of others teams. Also, Malik Jackson, Osweiler, Danny T, JT, and Decker would all be starters but left for more money.

    Overall its been a vast improvement from when Shanahan was here, at one point DJ Williams was the only drafted player on the teams from like 7 years worth of drafts.

    I would say, to have 12 starters is good based off the fact they drafted 20 or later the last 5 years. You also have to keep in mind that there were drafted players with potential who didn't make the team because they were buried on the depth chart, Tavares King, who started to show potential in the playoffs this year, comes to mind in that category.

    Yes, there's been some whiffs, Ball and Latimer probably the biggest. But, this silly article doesn't take into account all factors. IMO, the two biggest things that have affected the draft are where we have drafted, and the overall talent has limited the playing time for players with potential. Who knows where Shane Ray, Roby, Shaq Barrett (yes I know he was undrafted), and even Latimer would be right now if they were starters from day 1.
    Ray has done what any good to great player does. Goes to work but looks to a talented vet and learns his craft. Ray has shown steady improvement and that is why Elway's felt he could approach Ware and push his salary down. It is also why Ware is not already resigned to our team...

    Also to state that 12 of 22 were drafted by the Broncos aND are now starting now is not the greatest of rebuttles to a thread about drafting so so talent. After all we were third in the division and missed the playoffs.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    Ray has done what any good to great player does. Goes to work but looks to a talented vet and learns his craft. Ray has shown steady improvement and that is why Elway's felt he could approach Ware and push his salary down. It is also why Ware is not already resigned to our team...

    Also to state that 12 of 22 were drafted by the Broncos aND are now starting now is not the greatest of rebuttles to a thread about drafting so so talent. After all we were third in the division and missed the playoffs.
    Well you completely missed the point I was making.... but whatever

    Yes there's room for improvement, but every team in the league could draft better. Fact is though if Malik Jackson,Decker, Danny T, JT, and Osweiler were still on team they would've all been starters and I guarantee we're not even having this Conversation, and we likely don't finish third in the division.

    We need to be better at keeping drafted players, that's were this conversation should start. We've been a talent farm that has developed players the let them leave for big money elsewhere. Look at the Packers or Steelers, they rarely let their drafted players hit free agency.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pruke View Post
    Should Dallas fire their GM for not taking Prescott in round 1? No? - he found the right value in a later round? Maybe the rest of the league should fire their GMs?

    Time will tell this tale....

    I agree with the premise that we have not done well on offense drafting - especially on RBs - and O Line - although Paradis is proving to be a great pick.
    Broncos got lucky with Paradis. He didn't even make the team his rookie year. Now he's coming off of 2 hip surgeries and isn't exactly a great fit for a power scheme.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    12 of the 22 starters were drafted or undrafted by the Broncos, then add in that players like Roby and Shane Ray would be starting on a lot of others teams. Also, Malik Jackson, Osweiler, Danny T, JT, and Decker would all be starters but left for more money.

    Overall its been a vast improvement from when Shanahan was here, at one point DJ Williams was the only drafted player on the teams from like 7 years worth of drafts.

    I would say, to have 12 starters is good based off the fact they drafted 20 or later the last 5 years. You also have to keep in mind that there were drafted players with potential who didn't make the team because they were buried on the depth chart, Tavares King, who started to show potential in the playoffs this year, comes to mind in that category.

    Yes, there's been some whiffs, Ball and Latimer probably the biggest. But, this silly article doesn't take into account all factors. IMO, the two biggest things that have affected the draft are where we have drafted, and the overall talent has limited the playing time for players with potential. Who knows where Shane Ray, Roby, Shaq Barrett (yes I know he was undrafted), and even Latimer would be right now if they were starters from day 1.
    Where is the number 12 coming from?

  6. #21
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    Siemian, Booker, Janovich, DT, Scofield, Green, Paradis, Garcia, Sly, Wolfe, Miller, Harris = 12. Harris was undrafted so 11 if wanna be nitpicky.

  7. #22
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    I agree that we have struggled with early picks in the draft. While it is to early to fully give up on Lynch his early indications are not good.

    He needs to be better in the draft particularly in the early rounds. I wanted Cook over Lynch and even he looked better in limited fashion.

  8. #23
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    Gosh, all this doom and gloom makes me pine for the days when Shanny was drafting. Or heck, even McD. Maybe if Elway trades a 1st rounder for a 2nd rounder that will remind some of us of how it used to be.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Siemian, Booker, Janovich, DT, Scofield, Green, Paradis, Garcia, Sly, Wolfe, Miller, Harris = 12. Harris was undrafted so 11 if wanna be nitpicky.
    Siemian DT Paradis Wolfe Von are the only ones that are actually important and so good

    And DT and Green was McDaniels

    Elway's done great with undrafteds I suppose

    Giving them Schofield, Green, DT, Sly is pretty generous haha

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Well you completely missed the point I was making.... but whatever

    Yes there's room for improvement, but every team in the league could draft better. Fact is though if Malik Jackson,Decker, Danny T, JT, and Osweiler were still on team they would've all been starters and I guarantee we're not even having this Conversation, and we likely don't finish third in the division.

    We need to be better at keeping drafted players, that's were this conversation should start. We've been a talent farm that has developed players the let them leave for big money elsewhere. Look at the Packers or Steelers, they rarely let their drafted players hit free agency.
    Am I reading this correctly...you believe that if we had retained those listed players we'd have been a playoff team?

    While at the time Oz was a big shock it turns out that JE was bang on in his assessment. He moved on to Houston and was awful. He has since been traded and has all but been told that even the worst team in the league doesn't want him...

    JT left here for JAX and since then has seen a decrease in YPC has failed to be a red zone threat and only played 21 of 32 games. Mediocre at best.

    Danny T was hurt again this season but I will agree as an instinctual LB he was stellar.

    Decker has been up and down in NY which if we were to look objectively is about the same as he was here in Denver. JMO Sanders is a much better option for us and we can always flip to a 3 wide out set and move another larger WR out such as Taylor.

    I hardly see keeping those players (most of them at least) as being a valid reason for missing the post season.

    As others have aptly stated we have missed more often then not in the 2nd and third rounds of JE drafts. Unfortunately this is where we often target lineman (particularly on the offensive side)....and this is also where we are now the weakest. So I think it is fair to say 'the plan' of drafting olineman has failed.

    All is not lost though. There was a recent change in our scouting dept. So I assume that JE like most great leaders relies on those he hires around him. With the recent change I hope we see a change in quality of lineman we draft and the early and mid round draft picks improve.

  11. #26
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    I think one of the key problems is not paying our own guys. If you dont pay your own you will end up paying someone else's. Instead of paying young Malik we almost paid more for an old Campbell. Instead of paying Danny we now have an inflated LB market and have to address that in the draft. We let lineman walk on the offensive side of the ball over the years and ended up with bigger holes down the road. We let Decker walk because we didn't want to pay him and ended up paying sanders more I'm sure there are probably a few other instances out there. I hope that is one thing elway has learned. What seems like a slight overpay to keep one of your own guys who has proven their worth with look like a fair deal 2 years in.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
    I think one of the key problems is not paying our own guys. If you dont pay your own you will end up paying someone else's. Instead of paying young Malik we almost paid more for an old Campbell. Instead of paying Danny we now have an inflated LB market and have to address that in the draft. We let lineman walk on the offensive side of the ball over the years and ended up with bigger holes down the road. We let Decker walk because we didn't want to pay him and ended up paying sanders more I'm sure there are probably a few other instances out there. I hope that is one thing elway has learned. What seems like a slight overpay to keep one of your own guys who has proven their worth with look like a fair deal 2 years in.
    All a result of being in "Win Now Mode" the past few years. At least it paid off with a Superbowl ring. Like it or not Broncos are in rebuild mode and will b competing for a wild card spot until these Draft picks start to pay off.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
    I think one of the key problems is not paying our own guys. If you dont pay your own you will end up paying someone else's. Instead of paying young Malik we almost paid more for an old Campbell. Instead of paying Danny we now have an inflated LB market and have to address that in the draft. We let lineman walk on the offensive side of the ball over the years and ended up with bigger holes down the road. We let Decker walk because we didn't want to pay him and ended up paying sanders more I'm sure there are probably a few other instances out there. I hope that is one thing elway has learned. What seems like a slight overpay to keep one of your own guys who has proven their worth with look like a fair deal 2 years in.
    Not paying our own guys? Didn't Elway pay to keep Miller, DT, Sanders, Wolfe, Harris, Anderson, Stewart, Green, Marshall, etc? As far as Jackson goes, we offered him a contract and he took way more money to go to Jacksonville. Do you really think he was worth 85 million? By the way, Campbell's contract was much less than Jackson's. But, like Jackson and Julius Thomas, he took more money to play for a garbage franchise like the Jaguars. We let Decker walk and upgraded big time with Sanders.
    Last edited by gerontion; 03-12-2017 at 11:45 AM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundsOfSuccess View Post
    Siemian DT Paradis Wolfe Von are the only ones that are actually important and so good

    And DT and Green was McDaniels

    Elway's done great with undrafteds I suppose

    Giving them Schofield, Green, DT, Sly is pretty generous haha
    Here's the problem, you guys complain about the drafting but also don't want to give players any time to develop. If you want to be a good drafting team that means going through growing pains with young players like Siemian and Scofield.

    Scofield improved from last year, he could very well improve again, same with Sambrailo if he can finally get healthy. But instead all the talk has been what free agents to replace them with. Everytime I mention that it takes time to develop o-lineman here I always get the same answer, "we don't want to wait" let's just get some free agents to replace them.

    You can't have it both, if you want the team built with free agents, don't complain about the drafting, if you want the team built with draft picks, don't complain if they're not pro bowlers their first year.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    Not paying our own guys? Didn't Elway pay to keep Miller, DT, Sanders, Wolfe, Harris, Anderson, Stewart, Green, Marshall, etc? As far as Jackson goes, we offered him a contract and he took way more money to go to Jacksonville. Do you really think he was worth 85 million? By the way, Campbell's contract was much less than Jackson's. But, like Jackson and Julius Thomas, he took more money to play for a garbage franchise like the Jaguars. We let Decker walk and upgraded big time with Sanders.
    Campbells contract per year is more than jacksons add two more years on 4/60 its 6/90. 2-3 years into maliks deal he wont seem so overpaid. Sanders is a good wr for us but we do just fine with Decker who now makes less.
    Point is by not signing these guys we

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