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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampPik4Six View Post
    Does anybody else think that with a offensive line that resembles a NFL product and a average run game Siemian could actually be the guy now with a full season under his belt?
    If he shows better consistency. Bringing up "that guy", Brady was a good leader with decent skill set, but very smart hard working guy. However, it took him 6 years to surpass 4000 yards in a season, 8 years to complete over 65% of his throws, and 8 years to have greater than a 2:1 TD:INT ratio. Brady grew into the QB he is today and it wasn't a quick spurt.

    I think TS checks all the skill boxes you need to be a good NFL QB, and I don't think a stronger arm or more athletic gives anyone that much of an advantage at the position that is more timing and reading defense these days. I would say Manning and Brady are both guys that would rate only as average on arm strength and athleticism (if even avg there). QB really is more of a mental position if the tools are adequate.

    We will see what our FO thinks this year, but I think if the locker room has any say in the matter TS has shot to be "the guy" for a while.
    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundsOfSuccess View Post
    Paxton kinda sucks right now but the "trade him while we can" stuff is pretty dumb IMO

    It'll look even dumber if/when he ends up being our guy

    Bottom line he's either going to succeed or fail HERE and that's that
    I don't think you ever trade a quality QB unless you are getting extremely good value in return. But there is an argument to making a commitment to one guy. We may not be at that point yet, but we should be by next year if we don't go the Romo route. If TS takes another meaningful step forward and starts 2017, do the Broncos even need to consider a QB change? On the other hand, if Lynch takes a big step forward and looks like he can handle the job, do you keep TS for another year and pass up picks?

    I am fine trading Lynch and it has nothing to do with if he would succeed or fail eventually, but only for something significant. Like SF offering Buckner or Jets offering Leonard Williams. I would jump on either of those guys even if we parted with our 1st round pick. Both very unlikely scenarios due to cap hits on trading recent 1st round picks. So I expect both to be with us in 2017 and one to be with us in 2018.
    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

  3. #63
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    Ian St. Clair
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    Wasn't a complete quote (from Vance Joseph)...Wolfe was extremely careless w/ [reporting quote].

    Remainder of VJ quote on Lynch...

    "Hes ready for it. He wants the challenge. Hes looking forward to getting back in & going to work."
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Siemian was 35th in the league in average time to throw a pass at 2.72 seconds from the time the ball was snapped until it was off. That's a long time for a QB who had no time to throw.

    Looking at the players and where they rank there's no real correlation between time to throw and how good a QB is (Brees was 4th fastest, Rodgers 5th longest) but it does show that the narrative that the o-line gave him no time might not be entirely accurate.

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/ngs/timetothrow
    The QB and O-line, in my opinion, work as a team, like a unit. So I don't think it was all on the O-line because Trevor had his share of holding onto the ball too long. But the O-line had its moments with holding calls at very bad times and collapsed quickly others. The offense might not have been designed for quick pass plays to get the ball out quicker.

    From my point of view the QB was raw, taking too long to read the field, the o-line allowed frequent pressure, the offense didn't adjust much to help the QB and take some pressure off the o-line. So, the entire unit never got into a rhythm or "gelled".

    I'm excited to see what the new coaching staff can accomplish. McCoy is know for having a quick passing game. I do think highly of Trevor and expect him to win the job and win over many fans this year.

    From reports on local radio broadcasts are that Lynch doesn't come early or stay late. Which does seem like a required trait to be a leader of a football team. I do have concerns about his work ethic. That is not a easy thing to develop in your 20's.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Siemian was 35th in the league in average time to throw a pass at 2.72 seconds from the time the ball was snapped until it was off. That's a long time for a QB who had no time to throw.

    Looking at the players and where they rank there's no real correlation between time to throw and how good a QB is (Brees was 4th fastest, Rodgers 5th longest) but it does show that the narrative that the o-line gave him no time might not be entirely accurate.

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/ngs/timetothrow
    Really this should give us hope for 2017 more than anything.
    *Kubiaks offense also has a lot of long developing plays, McCoy will have a quicker timing feel about it.
    *More angle blocking should result in less missed assignments. Zone blocking requires more unison and while it can be very effective, it also leaves a greater chance for one guy to just miss completely.
    *TS needs to improve on his drop depths and timing, once again should be easier in McCoys scheme
    *Run the ball better, have to hold the ball long on 3rd and 8 than on 3rd and 5 or less

    I think all these things could lead to better OL play and getting the ball out faster...or least I am hoping that will be the case.
    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSalute View Post
    I don't think you ever trade a quality QB unless you are getting extremely good value in return. But there is an argument to making a commitment to one guy. We may not be at that point yet, but we should be by next year if we don't go the Romo route. If TS takes another meaningful step forward and starts 2017, do the Broncos even need to consider a QB change? On the other hand, if Lynch takes a big step forward and looks like he can handle the job, do you keep TS for another year and pass up picks?

    I am fine trading Lynch and it has nothing to do with if he would succeed or fail eventually, but only for something significant. Like SF offering Buckner or Jets offering Leonard Williams. I would jump on either of those guys even if we parted with our 1st round pick. Both very unlikely scenarios due to cap hits on trading recent 1st round picks. So I expect both to be with us in 2017 and one to be with us in 2018.
    I agree with the first part, trade one when you're ready to make a commitment to the other, but right now neither has established themselves as a player worthy of that commitment. Hopefully that changes this year and one of the two steps up and truly becomes a player where everyone can see he's that guy.

    I'm not sure anyone would give much for Lynch at this point, just because he hasn't shown anything yet, and a team would wonder why Denver is willing to trade a guy they drafted last year to be their franchise QB, after only one season and with no clearly established starter yet?
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingelway7 View Post
    Remainder of VJ quote on Lynch...

    And that makes more sense. Not sure why the initial reporter decided to cut it off? But even in doing so it wasn't as damning as some wanted to believe it to be.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoSynapses View Post
    The QB and O-line, in my opinion, work as a team, like a unit. So I don't think it was all on the O-line because Trevor had his share of holding onto the ball too long. But the O-line had its moments with holding calls at very bad times and collapsed quickly others. The offense might not have been designed for quick pass plays to get the ball out quicker.

    From my point of view the QB was raw, taking too long to read the field, the o-line allowed frequent pressure, the offense didn't adjust much to help the QB and take some pressure off the o-line. So, the entire unit never got into a rhythm or "gelled".

    I'm excited to see what the new coaching staff can accomplish. McCoy is know for having a quick passing game. I do think highly of Trevor and expect him to win the job and win over many fans this year.

    From reports on local radio broadcasts are that Lynch doesn't come early or stay late. Which does seem like a required trait to be a leader of a football team. I do have concerns about his work ethic. That is not a easy thing to develop in your 20's.
    Absolutely the QB and o-line need to work together. And both need to do a better job in 2017. There were times where Siemian took too long or had time if he stepped a certain direction, and he didn't. And their were times where the o-line gave him no time.

    There should be improvement from both in year 2 as Siemian has the game slow down even more for him and watches film and learns to understand how things develop and how one step can give the o-lineman who's beaten the chance to get back in control. And the o-line will hopefully improve in understanding what Siemian likes to do and how they can block a player to a certain spot knowing that Siemian will go a certain way instinctively. Same thing for Lynch.

    As for the radio reports, they seem to be one offs on their own, and radio shows are attempting to gain ratings. Keep in mind in recent weeks we've also had radio reports that Siemian's shoulder was much worse than thought and he won't be able to throw until possibly July(which has been denied by everyone) and that the Broncos were on the verge of trading Brandon Marshall, which for both cap reasons and personnel reasons made no sense, and appears to have been 100% made up. So it's not completely out of the realm that a radio host decided he'd get some phone calls by claiming something that perhaps was portrayed incorrectly or was flat out wrong.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Absolutely the QB and o-line need to work together. And both need to do a better job in 2017. There were times where Siemian took too long or had time if he stepped a certain direction, and he didn't. And their were times where the o-line gave him no time.

    There should be improvement from both in year 2 as Siemian has the game slow down even more for him and watches film and learns to understand how things develop and how one step can give the o-lineman who's beaten the chance to get back in control. And the o-line will hopefully improve in understanding what Siemian likes to do and how they can block a player to a certain spot knowing that Siemian will go a certain way instinctively. Same thing for Lynch.

    As for the radio reports, they seem to be one offs on their own, and radio shows are attempting to gain ratings. Keep in mind in recent weeks we've also had radio reports that Siemian's shoulder was much worse than thought and he won't be able to throw until possibly July(which has been denied by everyone) and that the Broncos were on the verge of trading Brandon Marshall, which for both cap reasons and personnel reasons made no sense, and appears to have been 100% made up. So it's not completely out of the realm that a radio host decided he'd get some phone calls by claiming something that perhaps was portrayed incorrectly or was flat out wrong.
    Reports should be taken with caution, I agree. But it wasn't mentioned by just one radio host but several during a couple "insider" interviews such as Troy Renck and Cecil Lammy. Some will like them, some won't. But I haven't found there reports to be too far from the truth.

    I'm sure that any given claim is based on some occurance, observation or published fact. However, how much of that has gone through the hyperbole bath is not easy to discern. So for the most part, I agree but in this instance there are several corroborating reports across different sources.

  10. #70
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    Pretty obvious Paxton spent last season not understanding the play book. Every time he got play time the offense was dumbed down for him.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narco View Post
    Pretty obvious Paxton spent last season not understanding the play book. Every time he got play time the offense was dumbed down for him.
    Based on everything I've heard and read, Kubiak's WCO schemes were probably among the most complex in the NFL. With McCoy he should be able to bridge a gap for our two young QBs to make an offense better suited for them.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narco View Post
    Pretty obvious Paxton spent last season not understanding the play book. Every time he got play time the offense was dumbed down for him.
    siemian...2 years with the playbook
    Lynch...1 year with the playbook...


    CP bet with NVthosebroncos that Forrest Lamp will be a solid day 1 starter, barring injury

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    siemian...2 years with the playbook
    Lynch...1 year with the playbook...
    Well great, now Lynch has to start the process all over again. Hopefully he can grasp the new one incase he has to go in and play for Trevor next season.

    Wouldn't be a bad idea to go after someone like Kaep or a vet to battle for that backup position with Lynch.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Well great, now Lynch has to start the process all over again. Hopefully he can grasp the new one incase he has to go in and play for Trevor next season.

    Wouldn't be a bad idea to go after someone like Kaep or a vet to battle for that backup position with Lynch.
    so does Siemian.....


    CP bet with NVthosebroncos that Forrest Lamp will be a solid day 1 starter, barring injury

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    so does Siemian.....
    You are correct, he does. I don't recall seeing him all that lost or confused last season, nor have there been any negative reports reguarding his work ethic. He's been praised as a bright kid so I would assume he will grasp whatever is thrown at him.

    It seems like it's been kind of the opposite for Lynch. We will see, I like the idea of a vet to battle it out with Lynch though.

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