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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    They were a .500 team before Manning and now they are back to a .500 team without him and will be lucky to finish at .500 next season. The defense still has some good pieces but the dominance you speak of was a 1 year occurrence...28th in the league for rush defense last season...mainly because of a weak interior Dline, ILBs and lack of a decent offense


    In all my years of playing, coaching, and watching FB...I have never seen a successful team that fails to address weakness on the lines. I doubt it starts this year....
    I keep picturing the robot from Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Then you never coached at all or were bad at it. Maybe you didn't watch the teams Manning played on in Denver including the one we won the superbowl with!.


    Bad Olines can be masked in the Pros and college/Highschool with a quick hit passing game while running well designed draws and screen passes. In HS and college you can mask an undersized out matched in strength Oline with the Veer/double wing/wingt concepts even the read option if youre really clever with your play calls and misdirection.

    Bad Olines can also be masked with great special teams/field position in combination with great defense.(Denvers Superbowl team)

    Someone who has actually coached and was good at it would know these things
    I respectfully disagree with your notion. Even the "great" Tom Brady struggled behind the bad line in 2016 playoffs and New England employs the famous dink and dunk system. Manning masked his oline for years, but please remind me of his playoff record before coming to Denver. Besides Derek Carr's development, the assembly of their offensive line was the pillar of their success this year. As the famous quote goes, "games are lost and won in the trenches."
    Last edited by Bterres105; 03-19-2017 at 08:51 AM.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    You cry about all the guys we have "lost" on our line but fail to say Elways Drafted/signed/resigned most of them to begin with.We didn't "lose"(your word) most of them but cut/released/traded them. Almost all of them were on the wrong side of 30/injury prone and playing the worst football of their lives.How many of those guys are still in the league or even on a team?

    Yes I believe that we have a shot with the line Elway/The coaches will put on on the field.

    You have a really high opinion of your GM skills maybe you should put in an application with the Browns.
    I also respectfully disagree with your post. Last year we went for bargain pieces instead of quality like Stephenson and Okung, but neither move panned out and made our offensive play even worse. Last year was difficult no doubt though since our cap was much smaller and we had to pay elite defensive players, but this year we sat on 42 million+ after cutting Okung, yet we did not pursue a single FA tackle that was a considerable upgrade. We still have 11-15 million in cap space, yet we're sitting on it for more likely than not Romo. While there is no LT prospect. How can you believe in this line when the only significant upgrade is Leary? We don't even have a LT and the most likely thing that will happen is we sign Dunlap, another injury prone tackle that's so bad that even the Chargers won't re-sign him.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    They were a .500 team before Manning and now they are back to a .500 team without him and will be lucky to finish at .500 next season. The defense still has some good pieces but the dominance you speak of was a 1 year occurrence...28th in the league for rush defense last season...mainly because of a weak interior Dline, ILBs and lack of a decent offense


    In all my years of playing, coaching, and watching FB...I have never seen a successful team that fails to address weakness on the lines. I doubt it starts this year....
    Elway is addressing weaknesses on the lines. Leary and Watson signed to address G and OT. Peko and Kerr signed to address DT and DE.

    Edebali signed at OLB.

    The Broncos have a need at LT - free agency is not over and we have cap space. We also have the draft.

    I'm not saying everything is perfect but Elway has made some moves. He had talks with Okung about re-signing him but obviously Elway wasn't going to overpay - Okung wasn't great last season (was he worth $53 million?).

    We'll have to see how it all plays about but needs are being addressed.

  5. #80
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    Lets be honest, the pickings were slim at OT.

    Whitworth is 35 and got a lot of money for his age. I'm not a big Reiff fan, he is OK but makes too many mistakes. Okung got way too much for his poor performances.

    Wagner would have been a good signing.

    Watson has the size and potential to be a great signing so hopefully he works out, although it is a gamble.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Lets be honest, the pickings were slim at OT.

    Whitworth is 35 and got a lot of money for his age. I'm not a big Reiff fan, he is OK but makes too many mistakes. Okung got way too much for his poor performances.

    Wagner would have been a good signing.

    Watson has the size and potential to be a great signing so hopefully he works out, although it is a gamble.
    Wagner was what I was hoping for RT as well, but FO was willing to take a risk on Menelik. Really our best option would have been to re-sign Okung since Whitworth was outside of our range, but Elway undervalued the OT market drastically and Okung got an even bigger contract with a division rival.
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    Wagner was what I was hoping for RT as well, but FO was willing to take a risk on Menelik. Really our best option would have been to re-sign Okung since Whitworth was outside of our range, but Elway undervalued the OT market drastically and Okung got an even bigger contract with a division rival.
    I just can't see any way Elway could of picked up his option and made him one of the highest paid tackles in the league considering his poor play and numerous penalties, it would have been a terrible deal for us and locked him in for another 4 years.

    SD has made him the highest paid tackle, that is a complete joke

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    I just can't see any way Elway could of picked up his option and made him one of the highest paid tackles in the league considering his poor play and numerous penalties, it would have been a terrible deal for us and locked him in for another 4 years.

    SD has made him the highest paid tackle, that is a complete joke
    Can't argue with that. Would have never wanted the Broncos to pick up his option, but to have hopefully re-signed him at a reasonable price. Unfortunately the geniuses at the now LA-Chargers thought he was worth big money (they're in for a surprise) so he was no longer an option at a reasonable price. I'm very interested to see what Elway does about the LT dilemma.
    Superbowl 50 Champions!

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bterres105 View Post
    I respectfully disagree with your notion. Even the "great" Tom Brady struggled behind the bad line in 2016 playoffs and New England employs the famous dink and dunk system. Manning masked his oline for years, but please remind me of his playoff record before coming to Denver. Besides Derek Carr's development, the assembly of their offensive line was the pillar of their success this year. As the famous quote goes, "games are lost and won in the trenches."
    Brady only struggled in one playoff game against a great pass rush and secondary. He also had the second best record in the NFL behind that line and Destroyed the Chiefs just the week before.

    I do not disagree that good line play makes things easier. I also believe that the Broncos will fix the line problems from last year. Different scheme calls for different strengths on the Oline. Denver never really got the Line Kubes wanted to have either thats a lot of why they struggled

    . Who is to say the same guys who struggled in zone wont excel in power blocking?now RT our true weakness last season on the line The RT pass protection was awful last season who knows how much injuries might have or might have not been a cause? Elway would know better than us and if need be will address it if he already hasnt with the Raider FA. Kid could become an all pro. Seriously has Elway ever went into an off season and not addressed what he felt the issues were? Nope. Turned a Great offenisive team into a defensive team that won a superbowl in 2 seasons I really dont understand the doubts from some of you .

    In the end I trust Elway to continue to build our team into the contenders he started building them into since he has been here and not worry about the guys doubting his ability to build a winner(really? lol)on the forum
    Last edited by Beagle; 03-19-2017 at 10:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    are you talking career or right now? because i don't see how you can say manning is top 5 even healthy.dude will never be a top 5 QB again, he is done.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Your right Elway should have just paid all of them......oh wait that whole salary cap thing gets in the way.
    He did resign: Von, Wolfe, Marshall, Stewart, Harris, DT, Sanders, and CJ.
    Oh yeah Manning is gone and the team Elway built won 8 games with the teams third string qb from the year before and one game with a rookie.
    Exactly

    You can't pay everyone.

    If people are mad at someone maybe look at Von Miller for one thing. He demanded a TON of money. As strong as Von is, the rest of the team is that much weaker because of it
    Red 98

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    Wagner was what I was hoping for RT as well, but FO was willing to take a risk on Menelik. Really our best option would have been to re-sign Okung since Whitworth was outside of our range, but Elway undervalued the OT market drastically and Okung got an even bigger contract with a division rival.
    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    I just can't see any way Elway could of picked up his option and made him one of the highest paid tackles in the league considering his poor play and numerous penalties, it would have been a terrible deal for us and locked him in for another 4 years.

    SD has made him the highest paid tackle, that is a complete joke
    I haven't read the entire thread - what about Jake Long on a 1 year contract? He's coming off the achilles injury but could provide experience if we draft a tackle.

  12. #87
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    The problem with critiquing Elway's performance as GM is lack of information. There is some information that never leaves the building. Access to detailed information via the internet gives the illusion of knowing enough to be able to reasonably criticize.

    The closer one is to the football team the more one's perception changes. What things look like on the inside are never the same as what they look like from outside.

    A number of years ago there were some members who were permanently banned, including one highly regarded individual, as a result of tirades against fellow members and the moderators concerning how John Elway and the front office handled the draft. IIRC it was the 2011 draft, Elway's first.

    We are all in search of information. After acquiring some, it may be wiser to admit that there are plenty of things one doesn't know. Socrates said that the only thing he knew was that he knew nothing, and for that the Delphic Oracle said no one was wiser than he.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Lets be honest, the pickings were slim at OT.

    Whitworth is 35 and got a lot of money for his age. I'm not a big Reiff fan, he is OK but makes too many mistakes. Okung got way too much for his poor performances.

    Wagner would have been a good signing.

    Watson has the size and potential to be a great signing so hopefully he works out, although it is a gamble.
    This blows my mind. Whitworth just got paid the 9th highest out of any LT in the leages after coming off of playing a season where he graded out as the 2nd best. The deal, from what I can tell, was slightly front loaded. Now so long as there is an out after year two...why on earth would we not want a guy like that?

    You need to pay for quality - somewhere - somehow we forgot that. ..

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    how dare you complain about people complaining about people complaining about Elway
    HAHAHAHA! Ha!

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    This blows my mind. Whitworth just got paid the 9th highest out of any LT in the leages after coming off of playing a season where he graded out as the 2nd best. The deal, from what I can tell, was slightly front loaded. Now so long as there is an out after year two...why on earth would we not want a guy like that?

    You need to pay for quality - somewhere - somehow we forgot that. ..
    Our Just released/option not Picked up LT who I think we can all agree lacks a lot of what is desired is now the highest paid LT in the league. Free agency is so stupid when something like that happens
    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    are you talking career or right now? because i don't see how you can say manning is top 5 even healthy.dude will never be a top 5 QB again, he is done.

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