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  1. #16
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    Go to the 01:27 mark in this video and tell me what that reminds you of:

    ~In Partibus Infidelium~

  2. #17
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    Incoming chopper!
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
    Go to the 01:27 mark in this video and tell me what that reminds you of:

    That does bring back some good memories, but Kelly is known for being too willing to take hits on the field. In college that is one thing, in the NFL that leads to injuries and turnovers.
    Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

  4. #19
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    Paxton Lynch is probably going "oh crap, now I have to beat out 2 7th rounders?" Pressure is on Paxton now! It's one thing to not play up to the 1st round potential but if Paxton becomes the 3rd string QB that has to hurt the ego. Siemian could have been a fluke, but another 7th beating him out starts to tell you that maybe its Paxton.

    A side note about Chad Kelly, there is a show on ESPN called Sports Science and the had a combine edition where they test some of the notable QBs, among other positions, in the draft. Chad Kelly was tested to have the best accuracy than any QB tested there in the last 6 years. He broke their throwing skills record for accuracy by throwing threw some targets(I don't remember of they were moving or not) and he threw strikes in 19 out of 19 from 10 yards and 10 out of 10 from 15 yards.

    His attitude kinda reminds me of Jim McMahon.
    Denver Broncos 2015 - Win AFC West Division: , Win AFC Conference: , Beat SB 49 Champs (2X): , Win SB 50:

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    He actually had a pretty awful game despite the final stat line. He had two very fluky Td passes that basically doubled his yards and tripled his td passes.

    The one where the snap went behind him and he just turns around and tosses a prayer is a very very dumb play. And likely won't get away with in the NFL. He just got super lucky on the play.

    The one that was initially ruled illegal forward pass was very heads up but also very unusual.

    I won't take away from his 343 yard 3 TD 0 pick performance against Bama. But if those two plays don't happen his stat line looks pretty atrocious.
    Curious what your definition of "atrocious" is. Because, even without those two plays, against the number one defense in the country, that's still a very solid game.

    However, while I can understand why you're taking away the prayer of a throw. But, you can't just take away any throw that the defense makes some sort of mistake. Kelly deserves some credit for thinking on the fly on that play.

    So, you can't just say his numbers would have been bad if *takes away every big play* lol. Unless you're going to also go the other way. He had three or four dropped passes or passes that should have been caught in that game. He had one beautiful back shoulder throw that his receiver didn't turn to the ball. Two of those passes were 25+ yard passes.

    So, if you're allowed to say "if you take away those throws it was an atrocious game", I'm going to grant myself permission to say that if his receivers make a couple of extra plays they should have made, he would have had about 400 yards and another touchdown pass.

    Now, I actually don't get into that. I just think you can't use ifs. Because just about every single game with a lot of yards could be said, "if this play or these couple of plays didn't happen, they wouldn't have had nearly the amount of yards".

    It wasn't just his yards that showed how well he played.

    Did he have some poor plays? Of course. Who hasn't made some poor decisions against alabama's defense? But, he put up 43 points against a defense that in all other games besides ole miss and Clemson (since we're allowed to eliminate two plays/games to better fit our narrative, still ) gave up about 12 points per game.

    So, I disagree that without those two plays he had an "atrocious" game. Far from it. Now, if he was playing Alabama a&m instead of alabama's defense, then I'd agree with you. Context of who you're playing should be considered.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by haciendadad View Post
    Paxton Lynch is probably going "oh crap, now I have to beat out 2 7th rounders?" Pressure is on Paxton now! It's one thing to not play up to the 1st round potential but if Paxton becomes the 3rd string QB that has to hurt the ego. Siemian could have been a fluke, but another 7th beating him out starts to tell you that maybe its Paxton.

    A side note about Chad Kelly, there is a show on ESPN called Sports Science and the had a combine edition where they test some of the notable QBs, among other positions, in the draft. Chad Kelly was tested to have the best accuracy than any QB tested there in the last 6 years. He broke their throwing skills record for accuracy by throwing threw some targets(I don't remember of they were moving or not) and he threw strikes in 19 out of 19 from 10 yards and 10 out of 10 from 15 yards.

    His attitude kinda reminds me of Jim McMahon.
    One of the tests was still while the other was moving. In both cases, he did better than anyone had in however long, or did just as well as anyone, considering he only missed one time between the two tests. Lol

  7. #22
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    If Kelly matures, we most likely deal a QB for a pick next year in what is looking like a pretty good draft class. I still think TS wins the job again, but all three developing is only going to be aces for us.
    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSalute View Post
    If Kelly matures, we most likely deal a QB for a pick next year in what is looking like a pretty good draft class. I still think TS wins the job again, but all three developing is only going to be aces for us.
    In the event Chad Kelly makes the team and runs scout team O this year (as Trevor did his rookie season), next year Trevor will have a year left on his rookie contract; Paxton and Chad will have three on theirs assuming Denver will end up exercising the fifth year option. If the Broncos don't trade any of them, there would be three QBs on their rookie deals going into the 2018 season. That's a very small % of the salary cap invested in QBs.

    If you trade one, what do you get? A draft pick? That might work given the anticipated quality depth in the 2018 draft pool. Which guy would you trade? Wouldn't it be the guy with the most snaps in 2017 whoever that turns out to be? This speculation depends on how Kelly does this year. If this scenario did unfold, the biggest bang for the buck in a trade would probably be Trevor since Kelly may not get game snaps this year and Trevor would be on the last year of his rookie contract.

    It will be interesting to see this unfold. Ultimately the objective is to have a quality starter with quality depth. Denver has shown the inclination to regularly draft QBs. They have done so five out of the past seven drafts.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksubroncosfan View Post
    Curious what your definition of "atrocious" is. Because, even without those two plays, against the number one defense in the country, that's still a very solid game.

    However, while I can understand why you're taking away the prayer of a throw. But, you can't just take away any throw that the defense makes some sort of mistake. Kelly deserves some credit for thinking on the fly on that play.

    So, you can't just say his numbers would have been bad if *takes away every big play* lol. Unless you're going to also go the other way. He had three or four dropped passes or passes that should have been caught in that game. He had one beautiful back shoulder throw that his receiver didn't turn to the ball. Two of those passes were 25+ yard passes.

    So, if you're allowed to say "if you take away those throws it was an atrocious game", I'm going to grant myself permission to say that if his receivers make a couple of extra plays they should have made, he would have had about 400 yards and another touchdown pass.

    Now, I actually don't get into that. I just think you can't use ifs. Because just about every single game with a lot of yards could be said, "if this play or these couple of plays didn't happen, they wouldn't have had nearly the amount of yards".

    It wasn't just his yards that showed how well he played.

    Did he have some poor plays? Of course. Who hasn't made some poor decisions against alabama's defense? But, he put up 43 points against a defense that in all other games besides ole miss and Clemson (since we're allowed to eliminate two plays/games to better fit our narrative, still ) gave up about 12 points per game.

    So, I disagree that without those two plays he had an "atrocious" game. Far from it. Now, if he was playing Alabama a&m instead of alabama's defense, then I'd agree with you. Context of who you're playing should be considered.
    Um how about because without those two throws the rest of this attempts were 16-31. Barely 50%. For about 180 yards. So 6 yards per attempt. And he would've only thrown one td.

    Um how about because I watched the game and the highlight reel and he widely missed a ton throughout the game.

    They were also extremely flukey plays. It's completely fair to take that into account. It's not at all the same as subtracting all big plays. If a wr barely has separation downfield and he throws him open that's 100% deserved credit. Throwing up a prayer when you aren't even looking where you are throwing and having the ball tipped behind two defenders that happens to end up in your other receivers hands with no one behind him is complete fluke and I will not credit that to the qb.

    I did say earlier I give him good heads up for the one where he was almost throwing an illegal forward pass. But it's super rare to draw three defenders up on that and leave no one behind covering the wr. Again heads up play but rare.

    The final stats look beast but if you actually watched the game he struggled way more than the stats indicated.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    In the event Chad Kelly makes the team and runs scout team O this year (as Trevor did his rookie season), next year Trevor will have a year left on his rookie contract; Paxton and Chad will have three on theirs assuming Denver will end up exercising the fifth year option. If the Broncos don't trade any of them, there would be three QBs on their rookie deals going into the 2018 season. That's a very small % of the salary cap invested in QBs.

    If you trade one, what do you get? A draft pick? That might work given the anticipated quality depth in the 2018 draft pool. Which guy would you trade? Wouldn't it be the guy with the most snaps in 2017 whoever that turns out to be? This speculation depends on how Kelly does this year. If this scenario did unfold, the biggest bang for the buck in a trade would probably be Trevor since Kelly may not get game snaps this year and Trevor would be on the last year of his rookie contract.

    It will be interesting to see this unfold. Ultimately the objective is to have a quality starter with quality depth. Denver has shown the inclination to regularly draft QBs. They have done so five out of the past seven drafts.
    Right. It's an intriguing position to be in. What if all three improved and we signed Siemian to a 4 or 5 year contract at $12-$15 MIL a year during the next season? We could still keep all three and leave the option open to trade Siemian if the other two really started stepping up.
    ~In Partibus Infidelium~

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Um how about because without those two throws the rest of this attempts were 16-31. Barely 50%. For about 180 yards. So 6 yards per attempt. And he would've only thrown one td.

    Um how about because I watched the game and the highlight reel and he widely missed a ton throughout the game.

    They were also extremely flukey plays. It's completely fair to take that into account. It's not at all the same as subtracting all big plays. If a wr barely has separation downfield and he throws him open that's 100% deserved credit. Throwing up a prayer when you aren't even looking where you are throwing and having the ball tipped behind two defenders that happens to end up in your other receivers hands with no one behind him is complete fluke and I will not credit that to the qb.

    I did say earlier I give him good heads up for the one where he was almost throwing an illegal forward pass. But it's super rare to draw three defenders up on that and leave no one behind covering the wr. Again heads up play but rare.

    The final stats look beast but if you actually watched the game he struggled way more than the stats indicated.
    He might have struggled at times in that game....still put up 43 points, and a win, against the best team in the country....


    CP bet with NVthosebroncos that Forrest Lamp will be a solid day 1 starter, barring injury

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Um how about because without those two throws the rest of this attempts were 16-31. Barely 50%. For about 180 yards. So 6 yards per attempt. And he would've only thrown one td.

    Um how about because I watched the game and the highlight reel and he widely missed a ton throughout the game.

    They were also extremely flukey plays. It's completely fair to take that into account. It's not at all the same as subtracting all big plays. If a wr barely has separation downfield and he throws him open that's 100% deserved credit. Throwing up a prayer when you aren't even looking where you are throwing and having the ball tipped behind two defenders that happens to end up in your other receivers hands with no one behind him is complete fluke and I will not credit that to the qb.

    I did say earlier I give him good heads up for the one where he was almost throwing an illegal forward pass. But it's super rare to draw three defenders up on that and leave no one behind covering the wr. Again heads up play but rare.

    The final stats look beast but if you actually watched the game he struggled way more than the stats indicated.
    Based on your first couple sentiments, I'm going to assume you didn't read my entire post, or just chose to ignore the point.

    Point was you can't just take away plays from a player unless you're going to give them plays. Such as the 3-5 plays that should have been catches, including one touchdown. In any given game, you give some and you take some. It typically evens out. You can't just do things to fit your narrative and act like you have a good argument. You can't say, "let's take away these two fluke plays" and completely ignore the opposite side of it, where he should have had multiple other plays for catches including a touchdown. You have to recognize the other side of what you're arguing.

    So, to be redundant. You say, take away those two plays for 139 yards (you took away too many yards btw). So he'd still be at 200. But, if you're allowed to say that, I can just as easily say, add on the four dropped (one was just a bad play on the ball by the receiver) passes with one would be touchdown. If those balls are caught, it'd be roughly an additional 70ish yards. So, by taking away his two big plays for 139 yards, I can add those four plays for about 60-70 yards and he still has good numbers.

    However, I disagree that you're just allowed to eliminate the second TD pass to fit your narrative. That was a + on the film check for the qb. Maybe he didn't deserve all of yards. But yards arent why his performance was good. I feel dirty even arguing about yards with you, because again, that's not at all why his performance was so good against Alabama.

    And besides, this was two years ago anyway. Last year, he followed up with a 420 yard effort with 3 more TD's. At some point, it's not fluke filled performances by the guy. Only Chad and Deshaun were able to put up those kind of points and yards against Alabama the last two years. There's a reason why and it's not because of one prayer pass play.

    I finish with mentioning again, that this was against the best defense/team in college football. Putting up 43 points, even with a bit of luck, is not an "atrocious" performance, and it's laughable that you could use that word to describe it. Unless we're going to admit that you could go take away 2-5 plays from every game and finish with a subpar performance pretty often.
    Last edited by ksubroncosfan; 04-30-2017 at 01:59 PM.

  13. #28
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    I've read that Kelly tore the ACL in one knee in 2014, and the ACL and lateral meniscus in the other knee, last season. And he couldn't compete at the Combine or Pro-day because of an injury to his wrist that required surgery that won't allow him to throw for several more months.

    That could be ............. problematic, to say the least.

  14. #29
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    Coach Joseph's favorite QB in the draft.

    https://twitter.com/broncos/status/858504476646420480
    4th quarter comebacks means a guy screwed up in the first three quarters. ~Peyton

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    I've read that Kelly tore the ACL in one knee in 2014, and the ACL and lateral meniscus in the other knee, last season. And he couldn't compete at the Combine or Pro-day because of an injury to his wrist that required surgery that won't allow him to throw for several more months.

    That could be ............. problematic, to say the least.
    He's Mr. Irrelevant. Not sure why anything that happens with him is "problematic", unless he somehow completely ruins the dynamic of the team somehow. And I just can't imagine the last pick in the draft being able to do that anytime soon.

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