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Thread: 104.3 The Fan

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    So what makes Wentz a QB of the future and not TS? No one is calling Wentz a bust at all.
    Exactly. Siemian performed better than Wentz, but is considered just a backup with no potential while Wentz has a bright future because the Eagles gave a king's ransom to get him with the 2nd-overall pick. It's insulting.
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  2. #32
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    I think Trev can be find behind an actual cohesive offensive line. In the end I think it will be Paxton who starts whether I like it or not.

    As for the station, I love Cecil and Polumbus together and love when either of the two fill in on other shows.

    Schlerith and Evans I enjoy.

    Sandy annoys me when he talks over people after they make a point.

    Stokely is hot garbage but Zach is cool.

    Dmac is trash to me. Just trash. Al isn't far above that.

    I am in Texas and listen on the app. So I like being able to just listen to the call ins on the Drive and not the whole show. I downloaded the app to the other station one time to hear their guys but did not find it to be a clean app to use and deleted it from my phone.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    It's thought-provoking, and well thought out Posts like this that make Bronco Country Message Boards so iformative, and such a pleasure.

    Just a few additional comments.

    1) If you hire a guy from Harvard, and you hire a guy from Topeka Body and Fender college who does a better job for your firm, then who do you count on with your most valued customers. You don't give the Harvard graduate those jobs, just because he came from Harvard, until he shows he can do a better job than the guy from Topeka Body and Fender College.

    2) We can look at the job that both QBs did in their respective Starts from last season. We have a history available to us. Of course, when you hire a new Coaching staff, they may ultimately disagree with the decisions of the previous regime. And thus, we have what Joseph calls an "open" competition that will reward the winner.

    3) Every QB taken in the Draft is a "crapshoot" to one degree or another. The QB taken in a recent Draft who was spoken of as being the QB of a decade (Andrew Luck), isn't exactly burning things up in this league. While QBs like Wilson, Carr, and Prescott, taken in later rounds, seem to be having some pretty decent success. Luck's legacy has yet to be written,

    4) Siemian had one "kneel down" snap in his rookie season. Going into last season, Siemian had Zero starts in the NFL (same as Lynch). And Siemian beat out a 1st Round Pick and a grizzled Veteran in pre-season.

    5) If Lynch "starts to get a better handle on things", and it still doesn't get him any higher than Siemian's shoe laces, he's "destined" to ride the pine. If Trevor shows more "maturity/skill", and can actually make a difference as a QB, he could be the Broncos Franchise QB of the future. But, I totally agree that if Lynch makes a miraculous step forward, then it's great for the Broncos. We would have a proven starter in Siemian, and a QB who beat out our proven starter. I can't imagine anyone not being happy if that were to happen.
    Thanks GT!

    If we use logic and try to separate passion, our discussions are that much more valuable.....then again, I am a fan of passion!

    But yes, the goal is to come out with 2 starters, and then worry about the "good consequences" later. Even one good starter would be more than acceptable. In the end, lets hope both progress, and then allow management to make the roster decision(s).

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    Exactly. Siemian performed better than Wentz, but is considered just a backup with no potential while Wentz has a bright future because the Eagles gave a king's ransom to get him with the 2nd-overall pick. It's insulting.
    I also find myself in agreement with what Freyaka Posted.

    I've been a Broncos fan long enough to suspect that a QB like Wentz, from the "East Coast" city of Philadelphia, is the beneficiary of positive comments from the "East Coast Sports Media" that dominates the country's sports-related media, while players like Siemian, or players in the past like Randy Gradishar, who still hasn't been inducted into the Hall of Fame, in less populated areas of the country, have been ignored, or even disparaged.

    But then again, I'm a "Conspiracy Buff".

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    I also find myself in agreement with what Freyaka Posted.

    I've been a Broncos fan long enough to suspect that a QB like Wentz, from the "East Coast" city of Philadelphia, is the beneficiary of positive comments from the "East Coast Sports Media" that dominates the country's sports-related media, while players like Siemian, or players in the past like Randy Gradishar, who still hasn't been inducted into the Hall of Fame, in less populated areas of the country, have been ignored, or even disparaged.

    But then again, I'm a "Conspiracy Buff".
    You don't even have to look at the media...People with in our own fan base refer to TS as "an even worse Kyle Orton" and as far as I can tell, the only thing you can base this comment off of is his draft status.

    Admittedly he does check down, that I suppose is another comparison, but what do you expect a QB to do when a defender is in his face immediately following the snap? We also don't know how much that is him being told to (because he didn't do it a lot pre-injury)

    Regardless, many in our fanbase set unreasonably high expectations on him based solely on "we'll it's his second year in the system, he should be miles ahead" and then when he performed like you would expect the average rookie to perform (because lets face it, no matter how you want to dress it up, he was a 3rd string QB the year prior and got next to none of the 1st team snaps) But, rather than saying "hey, lets see what he's capable of next year" and being patient with him, they proceeded to tear him apart for being a "glorified backup" I can guarantee you, if Paxton had started all season and put up the exact same numbers, instead of calling him Kyle Orton, we'd be singing his praises.

    Far too many fans put far to much emphasis on draft status and its importance.


  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    You don't even have to look at the media...People with in our own fan base refer to TS as "an even worse Kyle Orton" and as far as I can tell, the only thing you can base this comment off of is his draft status.

    Admittedly he does check down, that I suppose is another comparison, but what do you expect a QB to do when a defender is in his face immediately following the snap? We also don't know how much that is him being told to (because he didn't do it a lot pre-injury)

    Regardless, many in our fanbase set unreasonably high expectations on him based solely on "we'll it's his second year in the system, he should be miles ahead" and then when he performed like you would expect the average rookie to perform (because lets face it, no matter how you want to dress it up, he was a 3rd string QB the year prior and got next to none of the 1st team snaps) But, rather than saying "hey, lets see what he's capable of next year" and being patient with him, they proceeded to tear him apart for being a "glorified backup" I can guarantee you, if Paxton had started all season and put up the exact same numbers, instead of calling him Kyle Orton, we'd be singing his praises.

    Far too many fans put far to much emphasis on draft status and its importance.
    I don't care which QB wins the competition I just want the best one. But too many people keep saying that Siemian never had any time to throw, and defenders were in his face right at the snap, and that's just not true. Yes the o-line was poor, and there were times where the protection was non-existent. But the stats are the stats and Siemian was 35th in the league in 2016 in time from the ball was snapped until the time the ball was thrown at 2.72 seconds. If the defenders were really in that fast and he was checking down strictly because of that, then that would be a much quicker release. There were an awful lot of times in 2016 when he would take a snap on 3rd and 8, and survey the field, looking and looking only to take the safe 3 yard dump off and then Denver was punting.

    Now I'm not using this as a negative towards Siemian, because surveying the field and then deciding to live to fight another day isn't necessarily a bad thing, although there are times where you need to take a risk, or trust yourself to make a play. But the reason I bring this up is to dismiss the notion that the Broncos QB would get the snap and immediately be under pressure, often that wasn't the case, although as I said initially, that did happen as well, and the Broncos need to get that fixed.

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/ngs/timetothrow
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  7. #37
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    When the QB plays under center the drop (and sometimes fake) takes 1 to 1.5 seconds. When you have only 2.72 seconds from snap, to reads, to throw you are rushed.
    RIP Cameron

  8. #38
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    May the best man win! May the 2nd best man be ready for his shot!

  9. #39
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    As for the Wentz comps.....I do not have enough 2016 knowledge of their OLine vs ours, their weapons vs ours, their system vs ours, but Wentz does seem to have something that will make him a successful QB. Could it be leadership? Could it be other things that are not common for a first year QB?

    Same goes for him, this year will give us a better picture.

    But geez, look at the name opportunities:

    "From Wentz he came"

    "He Wentz that-away"

    "Wentz supper?"

    OK.....I am booing myself!!!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean View Post
    When the QB plays under center the drop (and sometimes fake) takes 1 to 1.5 seconds. When you have only 2.72 seconds from snap, to reads, to throw you are rushed.
    QBs should be making their reads as they're taking their drops. If you wait until you take your drop before going through your progressions then you're going to get sacked a lot, and you won't last long in the NFL. But going further with this, does that mean that all 34 passers in front of him were either constantly in shotgun or rushed even worse?

    Again this isn't a criticism of Siemian, young QBs often check down more, and struggle early, he had some good moments and hopefully he builds on them. But being ranked 35th out of 50 passers in time to throw shows that maybe he wasn't under as much pressure as often as people believed.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean View Post
    When the QB plays under center the drop (and sometimes fake) takes 1 to 1.5 seconds. When you have only 2.72 seconds from snap, to reads, to throw you are rushed.
    You're overestimating the amount of time the average qb has to get rid of the ball. Sometimes it feels like an eternity when teams have good offensive lines. But, its much shorter than you think.

  12. #42
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    My main issues with Siemian last season:

    1) Played consdervative in the scoring area; he was hesitant to pull the trigger and missed some touchdowns;

    2) Threw short of the sticks on 3rd down; defenses allow some short routes to be open and he took the bait;

    3) Allowed too many sacks he could have avoided by throwing the ball away; he held the ball for too long.

    What I see as the source of those issues:

    1) Lack of experience, learning the speed of the game;

    2) The pressure to replace Peyton Manning and keep a 1st-round QB on the bench.

    I don't see anything that suggests Siemian lacks a certain skill set to be a starting QB. He is smart, accurate, works hard, has the arm and can move. He is still young and inexperienced and can probably make some big jumps in the near future.

    With a new coaching staff and all QBs learning a new system at the same time, this training camp will tell if Siemian is indeed the best QB on the roster or if Paxton Lynch will rise up to his draft status.

    For all the upside Lynch may have with his strong arm and mobility, he needs to improve his accuracy and ball placement and I'm not sure he can do that based on what I've seen from other QBs over the years.

    Also, Siemian has to be able to stay healthy, which has been a struggle for him. All this discussion about Siemian and his fight to prove himself and shed his draft status won't matter if the injuries keep coming.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    My main issues with Siemian last season:

    1) Played consdervative in the scoring area; he was hesitant to pull the trigger and missed some touchdowns;

    2) Threw short of the sticks on 3rd down; defenses allow some short routes to be open and he took the bait;

    3) Allowed too many sacks he could have avoided by throwing the ball away; he held the ball for too long.

    What I see as the source of those issues:

    1) Lack of experience, learning the speed of the game;

    2) The pressure to replace Peyton Manning and keep a 1st-round QB on the bench.

    I don't see anything that suggests Siemian lacks a certain skill set to be a starting QB. He is smart, accurate, works hard, has the arm and can move. He is still young and inexperienced and can probably make some big jumps in the near future.

    With a new coaching staff and all QBs learning a new system at the same time, this training camp will tell if Siemian is indeed the best QB on the roster or if Paxton Lynch will rise up to his draft status.

    For all the upside Lynch may have with his strong arm and mobility, he needs to improve his accuracy and ball placement and I'm not sure he can do that based on what I've seen from other QBs over the years.

    Also, Siemian has to be able to stay healthy, which has been a struggle for him. All this discussion about Siemian and his fight to prove himself and shed his draft status won't matter if the injuries keep coming.
    Very good post! Well said!
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  14. #44
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    Yeah as really Siemian and Lynch will be battling down until week 1. Great when he is not injured. Lynch does indeed to improve accuracy.
    SUMMERTIME BLUES!

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffee View Post
    The all-time best show Denver had was Vic and Gary...
    This. Part of the reason I chose to switch to Altitude 950 was for Vic's show from 7-10 everyday day. Also get Hastings as well 10-1. Yeah they aren't Broncos 24-7 but they offer lots of valid differing opinions and free debate on all sports teams, especially the Broncos. More of analyzing the Broncos from a die hard fans perspective in some cases. Their afternoon 3-6 show is football heavy. Ryan Harris is finding his way into broadcasting but Kreckman is good for laugh or 2.

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