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  1. #1
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    Lets Talk Big Ugly's

    Hey first post but long time bronco fan. Former small school offensive lineman and former offensive line coach. Cool seeing the big boys getting some love and attention on the boards in previous posts. First off I love how educated the fans on the board are. I love that there is distinction in blocking schemes. Personally I define it as zone and power scheme. (this angle scheme talk is redundant, as offensive line is nothing but angles of departure, body position etc.) As they say if you can't do or coach, you critique. No surprise the broncos O line is bad. Paradis however is the bright spot. I think he did his job admirably considering he was battling injury, The guards must cover the faults in the interior or tackles. Guards are the Winston Wolfe (pulp fiction fans) of the offensive line, they fix everything. I look at guys like Schofield to explain our problems. He is always on his ass when plays break down or is standing there not engaged on tfl. Garbage feet. first post is just to kick the tires. Lets start gaurds and centers then progress to tackles!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkamaniac View Post
    Hey first post but long time bronco fan. Former small school offensive lineman and former offensive line coach. Cool seeing the big boys getting some love and attention on the boards in previous posts. First off I love how educated the fans on the board are. I love that there is distinction in blocking schemes. Personally I define it as zone and power scheme. (this angle scheme talk is redundant, as offensive line is nothing but angles of departure, body position etc.) As they say if you can't do or coach, you critique. No surprise the broncos O line is bad. Paradis however is the bright spot. I think he did his job admirably considering he was battling injury, The guards must cover the faults in the interior or tackles. Guards are the Winston Wolfe (pulp fiction fans) of the offensive line, they fix everything. I look at guys like Schofield to explain our problems. He is always on his ass when plays break down or is standing there not engaged on tfl. Garbage feet. first post is just to kick the tires. Lets start gaurds and centers then progress to tackles!
    we all agree schofiled and ty sombrailo are pathetic. this free agency overhaul and bolles should add significant value,.

  3. #3
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    I'm interested to see how Sambrailo responds to a new offensive line coach. I remember in his rookie year he was picked to start and did ok up until that game in Detroit where he injured his shoulder. Ever since then he has been a complete mess. I'm willing to give him another chance because he showed some promise before the shoulder injury.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam_b26 View Post
    I'm interested to see how Sambrailo responds to a new offensive line coach. I remember in his rookie year he was picked to start and did ok up until that game in Detroit where he injured his shoulder. Ever since then he has been a complete mess. I'm willing to give him another chance because he showed some promise before the shoulder injury.
    His shoulder has been a mess since then and he really hadn't been able to work out until that shoulder healed.

    I'm hearing this off-season did a lot for him and he added a ton of muscle so hopefully he's back to form and hopefully we don't find it that he is an injury prone type of player.

  5. #5
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    Well so far the G position has been possibly "unstable" as Leary has moved to the right for mini-camp and Garcia back to the left as he was last season. Until they get the pads on I think it is very hard to conclude anything, including whether they stay at the side they were during mini-camp. It sounds like HC Joseph, and maybe the OL coaches think the right side can be "road graders" putting Watson and Leary together. Joseph has also stated that Garcia is a better LG and feels that he should play the position that he is best at. Is Garcia showing to be a problem? I don't think anyone can know until the pads go on, I hope not, I am rooting for him to be at least above average because the Broncos really need him to be successful… Who else do they have?
    McGovern is practicing at C for now and probably will make the team if he continues to practice there during TC and/or until Paradis can practice, he also can play G, the position I believe the Broncos expected him to play when drafted. It sounds like Paradis will be ready for TC but my guess is he won't see any playing time until the 3rd preseason game leaving McGovern there, locking him into a roster spot. It looks like McGovern could play any OL position considering he did so in college … he played both left and right tackle, 12 starts at left tackle to finish his career at Missouri, at least 4 starts at right tackle and at least 10 starts at right G; I think he will make the team due to his versatility potential alone.
    It seems that Dillon Day is not in the picture with McGovern getting virtually all the 1st team reps at C. Billy Turner has possibilities at the G position, this will be his 4th year. There was talk last season that he is a ZBS OL and maybe struggled in Miami because they weren't ZBS team, that doesn't bode well for him here this season if the Broncos are going to more of a "power" scheme. His size (6'4ish at 315lb) would project him to a power scheme as much as zone. It would seem he should be able to compete at left G, maybe he can prove to be better than Garcia?
    They have Chris Muller from Rutgers they just brought on June 6, I doubt he has much chance of seriously competing for a roster spot. G Cameron Hunt from Oregon is, I believe the only other G on the current roster … total of 6. Schofield and Sambrailo could be options for G? If they are used at G I would think that means we have injuries at the position or the coaches don't like who we have … I doubt that Ty or Schofield end up playing G over being cut or backing up Ots.
    It really looks like the guards on the final 53 will likely be Leary, Garcia and McGovern with an outside shot for Turner. Garcia, in his 3rd season now needs to really play well early in TC to keep a starting position, if he loses that - which I don't think that happens - he could be done with the Broncos. I am looking forward to seeing Garcia in his 3rd season stepping it up and help give the Broncos at least an above average OL.

  6. #6
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    I must be missing what most of you are seeing.

    I don't think we've upgraded more than Leary. Our Tackle positions may actually be weaker or a wash at best.

    We still don't know if Paradis will be 100% healthy. And, if he is healthy how effective will he be in a power blocking scheme?

    Garcia was horrible last season. Schofield outplayed him so what does that tell you?

    Bolles starting at LT is a big question mark due to his inexperience. Stephenson and Sambrailo were atrocious last season.

    I can see trying to be optimistic with new coaches, but short of swapping out 3 or 4 guys, I believe our Oline will be a major weakness.....again!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbronco View Post
    I must be missing what most of you are seeing.

    I don't think we've upgraded more than Leary. Our Tackle positions may actually be weaker or a wash at best.

    We still don't know if Paradis will be 100% healthy. And, if he is healthy how effective will he be in a power blocking scheme?

    Garcia was horrible last season. Schofield outplayed him so what does that tell you?

    Bolles starting at LT is a big question mark due to his inexperience. Stephenson and Sambrailo were atrocious last season.

    I can see trying to be optimistic with new coaches, but short of swapping out 3 or 4 guys, I believe our Oline will be a major weakness.....again!
    I must be missing where it is in the posts in this thread are claiming an "upgrade" or even much "optimism"? Re-reading the comments I would characterize it as more skeptical and hope than optimistic. Leary IS an upgrade over last season's G position but I don't think it is significant overall to the OL. Our T position I think has the potential to be better ... if Watson can stay healthy he could be an upgrade at RT, but he has to stay healthy - that has been his biggest problem so far in his career. LT is anyone's guess at this point, Sambrailo - in his 3rd season - might come on, especially if he has improved his strength and stays healthy, we will just have to wait and see ... I predict, and may end up wrong, that Ty will be penciled in as the starter at LT with the first depth chart and then he might very well lose it by the 3rd preseason game. I don't think Bolles is yet considered the starter at LT but I don't think anybody knows at this time, not even the coaches.
    I'm not sure how you can conclude that Schofield outplayed Garcia last season? You may be right but since they don't play the same position I think it is hard to conclude that. Garcia was only in his 2nd season, and in my opinion was playing along side a LT that did not play very well, they didn't seem to communicate as well as, I think was expected, especially considering Okung was in his 7th? season. I think Garcia played fairly well his rookie year but did not live up to expectations last season, I hope he does a lot better this season.
    When I look at the team overall, OL will likely be the biggest weakness again but I will say that I am "optimistic" that they will be a little better, I hope a lot better.

    I do think that many fans should be a little more patient with the building of the OL, overall it is still young.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbronco View Post
    I must be missing what most of you are seeing.

    I don't think we've upgraded more than Leary.
    That's because we didn't. The nightmare will continue once the pads are on and this o-line has to block a real pass rush.
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=349348&dateline=13355  71607

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    That's because we didn't. The nightmare will continue once the pads are on and this o-line has to block a real pass rush.
    I'm of the opinion that we should wait and see to say that we for sure have or haven't improved along the o-line. Too many variables to "know" as of yet.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
    I must be missing where it is in the posts in this thread are claiming an "upgrade" or even much "optimism"? Re-reading the comments I would characterize it as more skeptical and hope than optimistic. Leary IS an upgrade over last season's G position but I don't think it is significant overall to the OL. Our T position I think has the potential to be better ... if Watson can stay healthy he could be an upgrade at RT, but he has to stay healthy - that has been his biggest problem so far in his career. LT is anyone's guess at this point, Sambrailo - in his 3rd season - might come on, especially if he has improved his strength and stays healthy, we will just have to wait and see ... I predict, and may end up wrong, that Ty will be penciled in as the starter at LT with the first depth chart and then he might very well lose it by the 3rd preseason game. I don't think Bolles is yet considered the starter at LT but I don't think anybody knows at this time, not even the coaches.
    I'm not sure how you can conclude that Schofield outplayed Garcia last season? You may be right but since they don't play the same position I think it is hard to conclude that. Garcia was only in his 2nd season, and in my opinion was playing along side a LT that did not play very well, they didn't seem to communicate as well as, I think was expected, especially considering Okung was in his 7th? season. I think Garcia played fairly well his rookie year but did not live up to expectations last season, I hope he does a lot better this season.
    When I look at the team overall, OL will likely be the biggest weakness again but I will say that I am "optimistic" that they will be a little better, I hope a lot better.

    I do think that many fans should be a little more patient with the building of the OL, overall it is still young.
    I agree that Okung could ha e or should have done better. That said I still cannot find or get enough information to determine if Okung was playing OK but compensating for Garcia or if it was just Okung not playing well.

    If memory serves Schofield did grade out as our 2nd best lineman. Again though we still did not run well when he was in and like others said he was often found on the turf....

    So is he really a starter for us at Guard.....maybe...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    I agree that Okung could ha e or should have done better. That said I still cannot find or get enough information to determine if Okung was playing OK but compensating for Garcia or if it was just Okung not playing well.

    If memory serves Schofield did grade out as our 2nd best lineman. Again though we still did not run well when he was in and like others said he was often found on the turf....

    So is he really a starter for us at Guard.....maybe...
    Or maybe it was our garbage scheme?
    Who knows? But you make a good point that if Schofield grabbed out at #2... Man, that's rough.
    That Watson guy looks like a beast! Someone posted his pic and he's a big dude. Hopefully he'll bring in some power.
    Speaking of... All I remember seeing was Garcia and Paradis getting pushed back... We'll see what happens this year.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    I agree that Okung could ha e or should have done better. That said I still cannot find or get enough information to determine if Okung was playing OK but compensating for Garcia or if it was just Okung not playing well.

    If memory serves Schofield did grade out as our 2nd best lineman. Again though we still did not run well when he was in and like others said he was often found on the turf....

    So is he really a starter for us at Guard.....maybe...
    A play that stands out in my memory from last season was when Denver was called for a holding call in the EZ (against the chargers?) and it was initially (may have stayed this way?) reported, by game announcers, that it was Garcia that held ... that was incorrect, it was Okung who held in the EZ...

    NBC Sports ... "Max Garcia was called for a holding in the end zone that gave the Chargers a safety to increase their lead to 21-3. Replays showed the penalty was more likely on left tackle Russell Okung instead of Garcia."

    Overall that looks like a lack of understanding/communication between the 2 OL as Garcia could have maybe taken the rusher, I don't know - but he didn't, either way Okung was overpowered and Garcia got the blame.

    For some reason I thought that Schofield went to RG a few games into the season but he did start all 16 games at RG last season. I am guessing the grade your talking about was from PFF?
    2nd best lineman on the team or in the league? He was definitely not the 2nd best in the league. PFF had Paradis as one of the best C, Paradis is fine but not onw of the top 5 in the league, IMO. I think OL is a difficult group to grade.
    I haven't heard anything about Schofield during OTA's - maybe I missed it? - the Broncos list him as an OT but they probably did last season too. If he was/is better than Garcia at G I would think they would have been practicing him there during OTA's but I haven't heard anything about that, the coaches seem to be going with Garcia and Leary as the starters, maybe when the pads go on someone will stand out? Maybe even Schofield?

  13. #13
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    This is rude, who started a thread about CanDB

    Just kidding buddy

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strip Sacked View Post
    This is rude, who started a thread about CanDB

    Just kidding buddy
    I didn't think he was that big.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    I didn't think he was that big.
    I did; BIGLY!

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