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  1. #691
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    Oct 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncodoodle View Post
    This is 100% on Elway - we could have had Kyle Shannahan & kept Wade Phillips.
    Instead, we have "this" current phony product that looks similar to Cleveland.
    After last year, the Broncos were the top destination for any new NFL coach. Great defense. One year from a Super Bowl. It would be the shortest journey for a coach to get to the promised land.

    Despite being the top destination, Elway chose Vance Joseph. Not McVay or Shanahan.

    Could it be Elway wanted someone who could never eclipse him and agreed to follow orders??? That is the most likely scenario.

  2. #692
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    Oct 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorFriend View Post
    Can we revisit this thread now? Some of us saw this coming months ago...
    I have been attacked for pointing out Elway's shortcomings for years. The way Colorado loves John Elway is destructive to the Broncos. Bronco fans never worshipped John Beake the way they treat Elway.

    If you can't draft, can't manage the cap, make bad roster cuts, and can't hire good coaches, you are a bad GM!!!!

  3. #693
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    Nov 2006
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    Reno
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
    I have been attacked for pointing out Elway's shortcomings for years. The way Colorado loves John Elway is destructive to the Broncos. Bronco fans never worshipped John Beake the way they treat Elway.

    If you can't draft, can't manage the cap, make bad roster cuts, and can't hire good coaches, you are a bad GM!!!!
    I agree. we need a serious come to Jesus, self reflection, soul searching type overhaul of our entire organization from the top on down.

  4. #694
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    Nov 2007
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    Cherry Valley, CA
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    897
    Our draft record is terrible. That is no secret. Elway took too many hits to the helmet friends. Wish we could get rid of his involvement here. The only thing he has done right was to bring in manning. I place alot of the blame on the offensive line performance and we have not drafted well there. Now our D is sucking and just underperforming themselves to the point of ridicule. I'll be surprised if we can win 5 games this year folks.

  5. #695
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    Dec 2004
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    Bear Valley in The 5280
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    Elway needs to stop with the micro ownership?

    I've pretty much come to the conclusion that nothing is going to get fixed with this team until a new ownership steps in if possible and begins to clean house starting from the top.

    This debacle is completely unacceptable and ludicrous.

    Problems with this team goes a lot deeper than what we realize.Just look at all the crap that is happening right now for instances, we go out and we sign an all pro bad ass left guard but because one of John Elway's hand picked guts says he does not want to play right guard we move that all pro left guard right guard, away from his all pro position. Is Elway literally trying to fail?
    Where in the hell does Max Garcia get off saying he's going to play left guard over Ron Leary and who approves this behavior?

    Another example is Vance Joseph doing what he says is fair to Isaiah McKenzie. By what right does Vance Joseph have to continue to put Isaiah McKenzie out there and before the rest of the team?

    Also who the hell does John Elway think he is dictating who plays and who doesn't play? We saw this garbage when Schofield was starting over Polumbus. John Elway has become that dogmatic detrimental GM that Jerry Jones is.

    And if that all isn't enough, what is going to happen on draft day?

    Are we going to have a high first round pick or is John Elway going to do what he did in 2012 and trade out of the first round to pick somebody else high in the second round? Will he refuse somebody like Sam Darnold of Baket Mayfield because he has Paxton Lynch? This is one thing that I do not understand about Elway. He has a first round pick with really high value that he'll trade away to move back in the draft however he won't trade that same first round pick for somebody like Kirk Cousins? We all know that would trade out of the first round to draft a Derek Wolfe high in the second?

    I don't have anything against Derek Wolfe but I'm just trying to figure out what this man Elway is thinking. Are we going to end up with some more Ty Sambrailos and Michael Scofields?

    We are going to have a lot of high round draft picks if John Elway doesn't screw it up but even with those picks who is he going to pick up, another Ronnie Hillman or Montee ball?

    I'm sorry and I know Elway is like a God around these parts but this is his hand picked players these are his hand picked coaches. Gary Kubiak won a Super Bowl and his team played for him, they played for him and they played for Wade Phillips but some odd reason Elway gave them garbage players and then all of f the sudden wanted Vance Joseph here, Why? I guess so he can dictate everything his coach does.

    It is definitely time for this man to be held accountable for his actions and for destroying this team.

    I do not care that he is our Hall of Fame quarterback, I've always said I'm a team guy before I am a player guy and I will not put John Elway before this team and if that offends any of you, I will urge you to grow up and see what is happening...

    What needs to happen is someone else needs to step in and buy this team from the Bowlen children because they sure as hell aren't going to step in and assume responsibility. They need to sell this team and sell it quickly so somebody can come in and remove John Elway from his position of micro owner and get this thing back on track.

  6. #696
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    Oct 2010
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    This whole thing is all on Elway!
    He needs to step up and take responsibility for the product that we saw before us last night on national TV.

  7. #697
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    May 2008
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    100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    I've pretty much come to the conclusion that nothing is going to get fixed with this team until a new ownership steps in if possible and begins to clean house starting from the top.

    This debacle is completely unacceptable and ludicrous.

    Problems with this team goes a lot deeper than what we realize.Just look at all the crap that is happening right now for instances, we go out and we sign an all pro bad ass left guard but because one of John Elway's hand picked guts says he does not want to play right guard we move that all pro left guard right guard, away from his all pro position. Is Elway literally trying to fail?
    Where in the hell does Max Garcia get off saying he's going to play left guard over Ron Leary and who approves this behavior?

    Another example is Vance Joseph doing what he says is fair to Isaiah McKenzie. By what right does Vance Joseph have to continue to put Isaiah McKenzie out there and before the rest of the team?

    Also who the hell does John Elway think he is dictating who plays and who doesn't play? We saw this garbage when Schofield was starting over Polumbus. John Elway has become that dogmatic detrimental GM that Jerry Jones is.

    And if that all isn't enough, what is going to happen on draft day?

    Are we going to have a high first round pick or is John Elway going to do what he did in 2012 and trade out of the first round to pick somebody else high in the second round? Will he refuse somebody like Sam Darnold of Baket Mayfield because he has Paxton Lynch? This is one thing that I do not understand about Elway. He has a first round pick with really high value that he'll trade away to move back in the draft however he won't trade that same first round pick for somebody like Kirk Cousins? We all know that would trade out of the first round to draft a Derek Wolfe high in the second?

    I don't have anything against Derek Wolfe but I'm just trying to figure out what this man Elway is thinking. Are we going to end up with some more Ty Sambrailos and Michael Scofields?

    We are going to have a lot of high round draft picks if John Elway doesn't screw it up but even with those picks who is he going to pick up, another Ronnie Hillman or Montee ball?

    I'm sorry and I know Elway is like a God around these parts but this is his hand picked players these are his hand picked coaches. Gary Kubiak won a Super Bowl and his team played for him, they played for him and they played for Wade Phillips but some odd reason Elway gave them garbage players and then all of f the sudden wanted Vance Joseph here, Why? I guess so he can dictate everything his coach does.

    It is definitely time for this man to be held accountable for his actions and for destroying this team.

    I do not care that he is our Hall of Fame quarterback, I've always said I'm a team guy before I am a player guy and I will not put John Elway before this team and if that offends any of you, I will urge you to grow up and see what is happening...

    What needs to happen is someone else needs to step in and buy this team from the Bowlen children because they sure as hell aren't going to step in and assume responsibility. They need to sell this team and sell it quickly so somebody can come in and remove John Elway from his position of micro owner and get this thing back on track.
    This isn't an ownership issue. Thing is, you have Elway who is 2 years removed from delivering you a ring.
    Other thing is, his poor drafting and hand picked coaching has failed. If there is one thing Elway has shown is he can move on from a mistake. This time it seems though his mistakes are compounding.

    Elway will be on the hot seat if things don't turn around. When fans stop coming to games and/or tuning out on TV, that hurts revenue. Money talks. They don't need a new owner to make changes.

  8. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    I've pretty much come to the conclusion that nothing is going to get fixed with this team until a new ownership steps in if possible and begins to clean house starting from the top.

    This debacle is completely unacceptable and ludicrous.

    Problems with this team goes a lot deeper than what we realize.Just look at all the crap that is happening right now for instances, we go out and we sign an all pro bad ass left guard but because one of John Elway's hand picked guts says he does not want to play right guard we move that all pro left guard right guard, away from his all pro position. Is Elway literally trying to fail?
    Where in the hell does Max Garcia get off saying he's going to play left guard over Ron Leary and who approves this behavior?

    Another example is Vance Joseph doing what he says is fair to Isaiah McKenzie. By what right does Vance Joseph have to continue to put Isaiah McKenzie out there and before the rest of the team?

    Also who the hell does John Elway think he is dictating who plays and who doesn't play? We saw this garbage when Schofield was starting over Polumbus. John Elway has become that dogmatic detrimental GM that Jerry Jones is.

    And if that all isn't enough, what is going to happen on draft day?

    Are we going to have a high first round pick or is John Elway going to do what he did in 2012 and trade out of the first round to pick somebody else high in the second round? Will he refuse somebody like Sam Darnold of Baket Mayfield because he has Paxton Lynch? This is one thing that I do not understand about Elway. He has a first round pick with really high value that he'll trade away to move back in the draft however he won't trade that same first round pick for somebody like Kirk Cousins? We all know that would trade out of the first round to draft a Derek Wolfe high in the second?

    I don't have anything against Derek Wolfe but I'm just trying to figure out what this man Elway is thinking. Are we going to end up with some more Ty Sambrailos and Michael Scofields?

    We are going to have a lot of high round draft picks if John Elway doesn't screw it up but even with those picks who is he going to pick up, another Ronnie Hillman or Montee ball?

    I'm sorry and I know Elway is like a God around these parts but this is his hand picked players these are his hand picked coaches. Gary Kubiak won a Super Bowl and his team played for him, they played for him and they played for Wade Phillips but some odd reason Elway gave them garbage players and then all of f the sudden wanted Vance Joseph here, Why? I guess so he can dictate everything his coach does.

    It is definitely time for this man to be held accountable for his actions and for destroying this team.

    I do not care that he is our Hall of Fame quarterback, I've always said I'm a team guy before I am a player guy and I will not put John Elway before this team and if that offends any of you, I will urge you to grow up and see what is happening...

    What needs to happen is someone else needs to step in and buy this team from the Bowlen children because they sure as hell aren't going to step in and assume responsibility. They need to sell this team and sell it quickly so somebody can come in and remove John Elway from his position of micro owner and get this thing back on track.

    Get it right on track? Are you referring to McDaniels Era as being on track?

    My money is on Elway. You act like the man has no ability to learn off of mistakes.

  9. #699
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    Feb 2004
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    West Des Moines, Iowa
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    He has been receiving the blame as far as I can tell. Am I missing something?

  10. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinginhorseman View Post
    Get it right on track? Are you referring to McDaniels Era as being on track?

    My money is on Elway. You act like the man has no ability to learn off of mistakes.
    Did I say anything about McDaniels? I said we need a new owner to pull the power away from the micro owner John Elway.

    John Elway has made all personnel decisions since 2011. 90% of the players he's drafted are infact failures. Read the post, don't just answer.

  11. #701
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    Dec 2003
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    NJ
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    8,294
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    I've pretty much come to the conclusion that nothing is going to get fixed with this team until a new ownership steps in if possible and begins to clean house starting from the top.

    This debacle is completely unacceptable and ludicrous.

    Problems with this team goes a lot deeper than what we realize.Just look at all the crap that is happening right now for instances, we go out and we sign an all pro bad ass left guard but because one of John Elway's hand picked guts says he does not want to play right guard we move that all pro left guard right guard, away from his all pro position. Is Elway literally trying to fail?
    Where in the hell does Max Garcia get off saying he's going to play left guard over Ron Leary and who approves this behavior?

    Another example is Vance Joseph doing what he says is fair to Isaiah McKenzie. By what right does Vance Joseph have to continue to put Isaiah McKenzie out there and before the rest of the team?

    Also who the hell does John Elway think he is dictating who plays and who doesn't play? We saw this garbage when Schofield was starting over Polumbus. John Elway has become that dogmatic detrimental GM that Jerry Jones is.

    And if that all isn't enough, what is going to happen on draft day?

    Are we going to have a high first round pick or is John Elway going to do what he did in 2012 and trade out of the first round to pick somebody else high in the second round? Will he refuse somebody like Sam Darnold of Baket Mayfield because he has Paxton Lynch? This is one thing that I do not understand about Elway. He has a first round pick with really high value that he'll trade away to move back in the draft however he won't trade that same first round pick for somebody like Kirk Cousins? We all know that would trade out of the first round to draft a Derek Wolfe high in the second?

    I don't have anything against Derek Wolfe but I'm just trying to figure out what this man Elway is thinking. Are we going to end up with some more Ty Sambrailos and Michael Scofields?

    We are going to have a lot of high round draft picks if John Elway doesn't screw it up but even with those picks who is he going to pick up, another Ronnie Hillman or Montee ball?

    I'm sorry and I know Elway is like a God around these parts but this is his hand picked players these are his hand picked coaches. Gary Kubiak won a Super Bowl and his team played for him, they played for him and they played for Wade Phillips but some odd reason Elway gave them garbage players and then all of f the sudden wanted Vance Joseph here, Why? I guess so he can dictate everything his coach does.

    It is definitely time for this man to be held accountable for his actions and for destroying this team.

    I do not care that he is our Hall of Fame quarterback, I've always said I'm a team guy before I am a player guy and I will not put John Elway before this team and if that offends any of you, I will urge you to grow up and see what is happening...

    What needs to happen is someone else needs to step in and buy this team from the Bowlen children because they sure as hell aren't going to step in and assume responsibility. They need to sell this team and sell it quickly so somebody can come in and remove John Elway from his position of micro owner and get this thing back on track.
    I get the frustrations, but be careful what you wish for.
    #swapping

  12. #702
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    Oct 2013
    Location
    San Diego, CA
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    13,538
    One .500 season followed by a notably bad season after many more recent division titles, 2 Super Bowl appearances, owning the division...

    It's WAY to early to start knocking the ownership / trust of the Denver Broncos. I'd even go so far as to say Elway should not be on the hot seat just yet.

    Bad things happen and there is a lot of blame to go around. At this point it's clear the coaching and players are disconnected; many weeks of bad performance, poor decision making is having it's toll on the team as a whole - that's as plain as day. It's up to the FO to see it's way out of this mess, that's their role. If next season does not show improvement then a shake-up in the front office is probably necessary, but ownership? I don't even know how that is even in the discussion at this point.

  13. #703
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    Dec 2004
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    Bear Valley in The 5280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    One .500 season followed by a notably bad season after many more recent division titles, 2 Super Bowl appearances, owning the division...

    It's WAY to early to start knocking the ownership / trust of the Denver Broncos. I'd even go so far as to say Elway should not be on the hot seat just yet.

    Bad things happen and there is a lot of blame to go around. At this point it's clear the coaching and players are disconnected; many weeks of bad performance, poor decision making is having it's toll on the team as a whole - that's as plain as day. It's up to the FO to see it's way out of this mess, that's their role. If next season does not show improvement then a shake-up in the front office is probably necessary, but ownership? I don't even know how that is even in the discussion at this point.
    With no disrespect to you I don't have the patience to continue watching this. In my opinion John Elway has been in control and dictating things for way too long.

    I do not want to see this team turn into the LA chargers or the Oakland Raiders where their fan base has zero faith in them and they end up moving to another city.
    Now I know the likelihood of that happening is very slim however John Elway is not the coach and he should not act as if. He's pretty much burned bridges with good coaches like Philips and Joe DeCamilias while getting ass happy over coaches like Vance Joseph and Brock Olivo.

    I understand the division titles and the two Super Bowl's but I'm gonna credit that more to Peyton Manning and Wade Phillips than I am John Elway.

    He needs to stop dictating which players are going to play and he needs to stop choosing the draft picks. As I said above 90% of his draft picks are failures.

    I don't agree with anything that the head troll in smack says but he is right about John Elway. John Elway is not a great GM that most of you see him to be.
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 11-13-2017 at 09:21 AM.

  14. #704
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    Jul 2011
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    7,406
    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    One .500 season followed by a notably bad season after many more recent division titles, 2 Super Bowl appearances, owning the division...

    It's WAY to early to start knocking the ownership / trust of the Denver Broncos. I'd even go so far as to say Elway should not be on the hot seat just yet.

    Bad things happen and there is a lot of blame to go around. At this point it's clear the coaching and players are disconnected; many weeks of bad performance, poor decision making is having it's toll on the team as a whole - that's as plain as day. It's up to the FO to see it's way out of this mess, that's their role. If next season does not show improvement then a shake-up in the front office is probably necessary, but ownership? I don't even know how that is even in the discussion at this point.
    I think itís the alarming amount of bad decisions since winning the Super Bowl. This is gonna be a make or break off season for him. The effort is there you can clearly see what his plan A B C was but none of it has been working for him.

    But I agree with you I donít think it has anything to do with actual ownership.

  15. #705
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    Jul 2011
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    7,406
    I think the problem is that we always fall into the trap of giving one man too much power in this franchise. We have shanahan too much power we gave McD too much power and now we have given elway too much power. I think the team was at its best when elway first got here we still had Xanders and fox was brought in and it seemed like there wasnít a sole decision maker. A solid chunk of our super bowl team was built off the guys those 3 brought in.

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