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  1. #1
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    At some point we have to start questioning Elway

    Preface this by saying: we have to see how this season plays out, maybe John knows more than I do.

    That being said this has been a very disappointing couple off seasons. He has particularly mismanaged the QB position since Manning left.

    First he failed to get Brock a contract extension before the off season, then got outbid by Houston leaving us with the choices of a 7th round 2nd year QB, a proven failure of a veteran, and a rookie.

    This year it got worse. He was so enamored with trying to attract Romo it seems the rest of the team was ignored. The offensive line was clearly the biggest need of the team and Elway was sitting on the sidelines trying to get Romo while the rest of the league was eating up the good free agent options. The defensive line was clearly the second biggest need and Elway was once again so caught up in trying to attract Romo he failed to give Calais Campbell the extra $2 million to come here (as it turns out we are well under the cap, could easily have spent that $2 million, and in desperate need of d-line help). This then forced him to not pick best player available in the draft and instead use the first round pick on Bolles. This is after his Schofield and Sambraillo picks failed.

    Then we get to camp and Paxton is awful. So we're left with Siemian (who I actually think could be our long term starter). Everyone can see this within the first 2 weeks but we have to drag it out all the way past the end of camp because Lynch is a first round pick. Their so enamored with Lynch that they say he has the backup spot and nobody can possibly beat him out no matter how good they play. No one but Siemian and Lynch even have a chance to compete (even for the backup job), they don't care about who the best player is. (Though I'm pretty sure if Lynch had won the starting job and Siemian looked poor this preseason we might be seeing Sloter as the backup).

    Then they waive Ward for no reason other than to save a few dollars. They don't care about the leadership in the locker room or the chemistry in the secondary, we don't need the cap space. It's just jettisoning a pro-bowl player for kicks and giggles (do you think Elway gets a bonus for the saving the Bowlens a few million $?)

    More and more I'm seeing problems with the way VJ runs the team, and it looks to me like he was hired because he was Elway's buddy. He says he doesn't care who the best player is or what they show on the field, he just plays who has more pull with the front office. There is no discipline on the sidelines during the game. He failed to stand up for an important member of our famed secondary. He couldn't make a decision about the QB because of front office pressure, costing us valuable practice time. It's not a good look, hopefully just mistakes by a rookie coach.

    I really hope these are nothing but the rantings of a paranoid fan. I really hope I'm wrong on all of this. This season will tell us.

    But if I'm not wrong, if these are the symptoms of a bigger disease then it's going to be a long decade of mediocrity for this team.

  2. #2
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    Ward was cut for reasons other than to just save a few dollars.

    In terms of the quarterback position I would agree this continues to be a challenge for the Broncos, as it remains to be for all but maybe 10 teams in the NFL. The Broncos were fortunate in that they were able to snag the greatest free agent quarterback in history. Outside of that happening again you have to draft one, and that's always a crap shoot.

    Further, Brock leaving was likely more Kubiak's doing than Elway's.

  3. #3
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    First he failed to get Brock a contract extension before the off season,
    Couldn't read past that. Denver offered Osweiler a very large contract, way more than he deserved and we're lucky he chose to leave. He just got cut from the Browns after getting traded from the Texans. Nobody wants him any more, we dodged a bullet with that one.
    2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorFriend View Post
    Preface this by saying: we have to see how this season plays out, maybe John knows more than I do.

    That being said this has been a very disappointing couple off seasons. He has particularly mismanaged the QB position since Manning left.

    First he failed to get Brock a contract extension before the off season, then got outbid by Houston leaving us with the choices of a 7th round 2nd year QB, a proven failure of a veteran, and a rookie.

    This year it got worse. He was so enamored with trying to attract Romo it seems the rest of the team was ignored. The offensive line was clearly the biggest need of the team and Elway was sitting on the sidelines trying to get Romo while the rest of the league was eating up the good free agent options. The defensive line was clearly the second biggest need and Elway was once again so caught up in trying to attract Romo he failed to give Calais Campbell the extra $2 million to come here (as it turns out we are well under the cap, could easily have spent that $2 million, and in desperate need of d-line help). This then forced him to not pick best player available in the draft and instead use the first round pick on Bolles. This is after his Schofield and Sambraillo picks failed.

    Then we get to camp and Paxton is awful. So we're left with Siemian (who I actually think could be our long term starter). Everyone can see this within the first 2 weeks but we have to drag it out all the way past the end of camp because Lynch is a first round pick. Their so enamored with Lynch that they say he has the backup spot and nobody can possibly beat him out no matter how good they play. No one but Siemian and Lynch even have a chance to compete (even for the backup job), they don't care about who the best player is. (Though I'm pretty sure if Lynch had won the starting job and Siemian looked poor this preseason we might be seeing Sloter as the backup).

    Then they waive Ward for no reason other than to save a few dollars. They don't care about the leadership in the locker room or the chemistry in the secondary, we don't need the cap space. It's just jettisoning a pro-bowl player for kicks and giggles (do you think Elway gets a bonus for the saving the Bowlens a few million $?)

    More and more I'm seeing problems with the way VJ runs the team, and it looks to me like he was hired because he was Elway's buddy. He says he doesn't care who the best player is or what they show on the field, he just plays who has more pull with the front office. There is no discipline on the sidelines during the game. He failed to stand up for an important member of our famed secondary. He couldn't make a decision about the QB because of front office pressure, costing us valuable practice time. It's not a good look, hopefully just mistakes by a rookie coach.

    I really hope these are nothing but the rantings of a paranoid fan. I really hope I'm wrong on all of this. This season will tell us.

    But if I'm not wrong, if these are the symptoms of a bigger disease then it's going to be a long decade of mediocrity for this team.
    Do not think Elway can hear you with his Super Bowl Ring and AFC Championship game ring plugging his ears.

    I do not like the TJ or Sloter moves either. Also do not like how the OL has been addressed.

    Really like how we went from a team that no other team has lost more games than us (was it a 2 year streak? forgot) to a team that won the Div Elway's first year. To a real good team the following year. Even than we still had some weak tendencies and would get exposed by good teams. Once again we got turned into a tough team with a defense that imposed its will on opposing teams like very few defenses ever seen. We won a Ring.

    We went from laughed at bottom NFL team to two Super Bowls including one Ring.

    That happened less than two years ago fyi.

    Not happy about everything done but Elway has earned some trust.
    Last edited by Hadez; 09-02-2017 at 01:19 PM.
    All I want for Christmas is a Bronco QB controversy

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    Ward was cut for reasons other than to just save a few dollars.

    In terms of the quarterback position I would agree this continues to be a challenge for the Broncos, as it remains to be for all but maybe 10 teams in the NFL. The Broncos were fortunate in that they were able to snag the greatest free agent quarterback in history. Outside of that happening again you have to draft one, and that's always a crap shoot.

    Further, Brock leaving was likely more Kubiak's doing than Elway's.
    Sure the other teams struggle, but that shouldn't excuse missteps by our front office.

    And I agree about Kubiak, when he pulled Brock after halftime I said Brock is gone at that point. However if the front office was doing their job he would have been locked down to a contract before that point.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houshmazode View Post
    Couldn't read past that. Denver offered Osweiler a very large contract, way more than he deserved and we're lucky he chose to leave. He just got cut from the Browns after getting traded from the Texans. Nobody wants him any more, we dodged a bullet with that one.
    They offered him a very large contract, more than he deserved after the season. Offering that contract was a mistake.

    Not signing him to an extension during the season for a fair price was a mistake.

    They got lucky in that their 7th round pick turned out to be a decent starter, but how often does that happen? They certainly didn't see it happening at the time, they just flat out failed and got lucky.

    Ignoring other mistakes because of the first mistake doesn't make much sense.

  7. #7
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    So you're questioning the following:

    Trying to replace Manning, probably not so easy.

    Not overpaying for Oz, 2 teams in less than a year now unemployed.....

    Drafting Bolles, obviously drafting O lineman is an easy task. Correct?

    V Joseph already sucks , yet hasn't coached a meaningful game yet

    Cut Ward, unfortunately football is now a business. Simmons looks legit and Ward has hammy issues going on.

    Outside the perfect bible you live in

    Hall of fame Qbs grow on trees, o lineman easy to come by , 1st year coaches do unreal things in preseason and teams stay together forever!!!

    Kinda feel like Elway might have something to due with the limited success we'be had the last couple years

    GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Do not think Elway can hear you with his Super Bowl Ring and AFC Championship game ring plugging his ears.

    I do not like the TJ or Sloter moves either. Also do not like how the OL has been addressed.

    Really like how we went from a team that no other team has lost more games than us (was it a 2 year streak? forgot) to a team that won the Div Elway's first year. To a real good team the following year. Even than we still had some weak tendencies and would get exposed by good teams. Once again we got turned into a tough team with a defense that imposed its will on opposing teams like very few defenses ever seen. We won a Ring.
    Elway couldn't hear me if Belichick, Lombardi, Landry, and Walsh were all behind me agreeing with me. His ego is too big. I don't think he can win a ring without Manning. I hope I'm wrong.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorFriend View Post
    Preface this by saying: we have to see how this season plays out, maybe John knows more than I do.

    That being said this has been a very disappointing couple off seasons. He has particularly mismanaged the QB position since Manning left.

    First he failed to get Brock a contract extension before the off season, then got outbid by Houston leaving us with the choices of a 7th round 2nd year QB, a proven failure of a veteran, and a rookie.

    This year it got worse. He was so enamored with trying to attract Romo it seems the rest of the team was ignored. The offensive line was clearly the biggest need of the team and Elway was sitting on the sidelines trying to get Romo while the rest of the league was eating up the good free agent options. The defensive line was clearly the second biggest need and Elway was once again so caught up in trying to attract Romo he failed to give Calais Campbell the extra $2 million to come here (as it turns out we are well under the cap, could easily have spent that $2 million, and in desperate need of d-line help). This then forced him to not pick best player available in the draft and instead use the first round pick on Bolles. This is after his Schofield and Sambraillo picks failed.

    Then we get to camp and Paxton is awful. So we're left with Siemian (who I actually think could be our long term starter). Everyone can see this within the first 2 weeks but we have to drag it out all the way past the end of camp because Lynch is a first round pick. Their so enamored with Lynch that they say he has the backup spot and nobody can possibly beat him out no matter how good they play. No one but Siemian and Lynch even have a chance to compete (even for the backup job), they don't care about who the best player is. (Though I'm pretty sure if Lynch had won the starting job and Siemian looked poor this preseason we might be seeing Sloter as the backup).

    Then they waive Ward for no reason other than to save a few dollars. They don't care about the leadership in the locker room or the chemistry in the secondary, we don't need the cap space. It's just jettisoning a pro-bowl player for kicks and giggles (do you think Elway gets a bonus for the saving the Bowlens a few million $?)

    More and more I'm seeing problems with the way VJ runs the team, and it looks to me like he was hired because he was Elway's buddy. He says he doesn't care who the best player is or what they show on the field, he just plays who has more pull with the front office. There is no discipline on the sidelines during the game. He failed to stand up for an important member of our famed secondary. He couldn't make a decision about the QB because of front office pressure, costing us valuable practice time. It's not a good look, hopefully just mistakes by a rookie coach.

    I really hope these are nothing but the rantings of a paranoid fan. I really hope I'm wrong on all of this. This season will tell us.

    But if I'm not wrong, if these are the symptoms of a bigger disease then it's going to be a long decade of mediocrity for this team.
    I agree with almost everything you wrote except for the TJ Ward situation. I can understand why they went that way to keep an extra roster spot and save some money on a guy they know they won't be paying out for next season.

    That said, I think he's terribly mismanaged the QB situation. That extra roster spot should have belonged to Sloter, who was lightyears ahead of Lynch in the ability to play the position. Vance said the best people would play, but I continually see politics and personal egos win out over the better player; especially on the offensive side of the ball. I'm afraid Vance doesn't have the control over this team that a coach should have, and if that's the truth then we are in deep trouble.

    I pray that Elway/Vance hasn't hurt the growth of our offense by trying to force Lynch as a starter this year and taken so many 1st team reps away from Trevor as well. If that happens though, and Siemian does poorly this year; do we have faith that this team in it's current state can stay focused and put their own feelings aside to create a decent offense that can actually compete? Or will we bring in yet another smorgasboard of lower level offensive talent that will do nothing but to dilute 1st team reps for those that are obviously the better players? Can we only succeed with this current system if the GM his a homerun with a massive trade acquisition for a future HOF QB? That's not the way a team should be run. We need to be developing those who have shown that they have the ability to improve and learn, and showing the door to those that have proven over and over that they are incapable.

    I still want to say I have hope, and I do; but it is quickly dwindling. Now instead of having a roster spot taken care of (2nd string QB) for the first couple games; we will have to pay an entire vet minimum salary to some bum vet just to be backup and hold a clipboard all year while they steal reps away from our young guys in practice. Just not a recipe for long-term success, or for building a cohesive locker-room.


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  10. #10
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    Let's see after this season. Elway rode the Peyton Manning train for a long time, and got the FA bounties that came with that.

    Now, it's finally "his" team, with his young coach, DC, and QBs (Lynch, Siemian, maybe Brock) and the post-Manning wave of FAs. We need to see if he's truly a great GM now or the beneficiary of a once-in-a-lifetime free agent signing. We know his five-year draft record, by many accounts, is 2nd worse in the league. But I think his choice of coaches and QBs will speak louder than that.

  11. #11
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    Bubble not bible (Auto correct stinks)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorFriend View Post
    They offered him a very large contract, more than he deserved after the season. Offering that contract was a mistake.

    Not signing him to an extension during the season for a fair price was a mistake.

    They got lucky in that their 7th round pick turned out to be a decent starter, but how often does that happen? They certainly didn't see it happening at the time, they just flat out failed and got lucky.

    Ignoring other mistakes because of the first mistake doesn't make much sense.
    I am glad he turned down our contract offer...which from what I read was just 500K a year less than Houston.

    Elway would be getting crushed right now if that went through.

    Os is a big baby and I am glad he went down the path he traveled. He was an idiot to leave here and get hurt by being benched for a future HoFer on a team trying to win it all....that did end up winning it all.
    All I want for Christmas is a Bronco QB controversy

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimelway View Post
    So you're questioning the following:

    Trying to replace Manning, probably not so easy.

    Not overpaying for Oz, 2 teams in less than a year now unemployed.....

    Drafting Bolles, obviously drafting O lineman is an easy task. Correct?

    V Joseph already sucks , yet hasn't coached a meaningful game yet

    Cut Ward, unfortunately football is now a business. Simmons looks legit and Ward has hammy issues going on.

    Outside the perfect bible you live in

    Hall of fame Qbs grow on trees, o lineman easy to come by , 1st year coaches do unreal things in preseason and teams stay together forever!!!

    Kinda feel like Elway might have something to due with the limited success we'be had the last couple years

    GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Wrong on all accounts.

    I'm not questioning replacing Manning, actually Siemian has done a great job and has the potential to be a franchise QB.

    I'm not questioning overpaying Oz, I'm questioning trying to overpay Oz because you failed to lock him down during the season. (They failed into luck on this one).

    I'm not questioning drafting Bolles, I'm questioning forcing yourself into drafting Bolles because of your Romo failure.

    I never said VJ sucks.

    There is no logical business reason for cutting Ward.

    Please read the post again before replying.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houshmazode View Post
    Couldn't read past that. Denver offered Osweiler a very large contract, way more than he deserved and we're lucky he chose to leave. He just got cut from the Browns after getting traded from the Texans. Nobody wants him any more, we dodged a bullet with that one.
    So you didn't even get to the part where he is claiming Elway was enamored and ultra focused on obtaining tony romo all off-season... so much so that he forgot he was managing and entire team.

    I am glad to get a good mid day chuckle out of the broncos country message boards today...

  15. #15
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    http://www.9news.com/sports/sources-...oter/470314723

    Seems like Elway is always 2 steps ahead of the OP. Now Brock can come back for a dirt cheap contract, and we can use all that money we saved to pay the defense!
    2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones

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