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  1. #4546
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    I just want to win football games! I hope we can go 9-7 this year or better? I am not sold on VJ, but he is in charge for now, and I hope he can win some games for us.

  2. #4547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    For whatever reason Elway has been locked onto VJ before Kubiak coached one game as a head coach for us. Elway was going to give him a shot for reasons I do not think have been made public.

    VJ went 8-17 his first 25 games as Head Coach.

    He goes 3-0 and all the sudden people want to pretend the first 25 games did not happen

    If VJ stays...someone will be eating crow in 2019. I am ready for mine...is everyone else ready for theirs?
    People around here havenít had much to cheer about prior to the last three weeks so you canít blame them for the orange glasses when it comes to finally winning.

    As far as VJ goes, I think ppl just want continuity. Iíd rather bring in Harbaugh and Kubiak because Keenum knows the system but if not then whatís the point of starting from scratch with a new regime thatís going to take another few years to build chemistry!

  3. #4548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    People around here havenít had much to cheer about prior to the last three weeks so you canít blame them for the orange glasses when it comes to finally winning.

    As far as VJ goes, I think ppl just want continuity. Iíd rather bring in Harbaugh and Kubiak because Keenum knows the system but if not then whatís the point of starting from scratch with a new regime thatís going to take another few years to build chemistry!
    I for one do not wear orange glasses. Yes I am happy we have won 3 in a row but the fact remains, VJ is a piss poor coach, Woods and Musgrave are just as bad and Keenam... Well he just sucks. No, I do not have a solution to the coaching staff issues nor the QB issue. But something has got to change and soon. At this point in the season we could not win the division.
    Last edited by Saddletramp; 12-07-2018 at 07:39 AM.

  4. #4549
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    Feb 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.M. View Post
    Agreed, EM. I'm not a "believer" yet but as long as we keep winning, hey it doesn't matter to me who's coaching! The bottom line is the results, so it could be the Dove Valley janitor for all I care!

    But if we lose more games, and lose them in an embarrassing manner again, then....

    Love that pic... need to dig out my old LEGO and try to make that.
    http://s7.postimg.org/hjr8fcmaz/EM2.jpg

    Adopted Broncos: Garett Bolles

  5. #4550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    I for one do not wear orange glasses. Yes I am happy we have won 3 in a row but the fact remains, VJ is a piss poor coach, Woods and Musgrave are just as bad and Keenam... Well he just sucks. No, I do not have a solution to the coaching staff issues nor the QB issue. But something has got to change and soon. At this point in the season we could not win the division.
    How are we in a playoff race if the starting QB, Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator and Defensive Coordinator are "piss poor" in your eyes? I understand not looking through orange glasses but your view is the exact extreme opposite and not fair or accurate.

  6. #4551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    For whatever reason Elway has been locked onto VJ before Kubiak coached one game as a head coach for us. Elway was going to give him a shot for reasons I do not think have been made public.

    VJ went 8-17 his first 25 games as Head Coach.

    He goes 3-0 and all the sudden people want to pretend the first 25 games did not happen

    If VJ stays...someone will be eating crow in 2019. I am ready for mine...is everyone else ready for theirs?
    Lets hope you get to eat a lot of crow next season, but why exactly should anyone else? No-one here have expressed anything other than a wait and see attitude. You are one of the very few that are hell bend on negativity towards VJ.

    We don't know why Elway chose VJ and looked at him in 2015. We don't know why he liked Osweiler and Lynch, but in the end the situation is the same as it was with Lynch - if you are found lacking and you improve you get a chance and if you don't improve you will be gone.

  7. #4552
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    Smolan, Kansas, United States
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    For whatever reason Elway has been locked onto VJ before Kubiak coached one game as a head coach for us. Elway was going to give him a shot for reasons I do not think have been made public.

    VJ went 8-17 his first 25 games as Head Coach.

    He goes 3-0 and all the sudden people want to pretend the first 25 games did not happen

    If VJ stays...someone will be eating crow in 2019. I am ready for mine...is everyone else ready for theirs?
    No one needs to be ready for crow and if anyone tries to call out another poster for an opinion that ended up being wrong, that's against the CoC and I know our mods will handle it accordingly.

    He's done enough to earn his job. I don't think i've seen a single person saying he's going to be a great coach, but he's done what he needs to do to put us in a position to make the playoffs. If we make he playoffs, he'll be the coach next year, no one has to like that, but it is a likely reality.

    No one is acting like the first 25 games didn't happen, we simply recognize that Elway isn't likely to fire him if we make the playoffs. He's made improvements, it's obvious to anyone not hellbent on him being gone that the improvements are there.

    Me personally, I am going to give him a clean slate if we make the playoffs this year. 2019 will be a fresh start. He'll still be on a short leash in my book, but i'm not going to write him off if he survives this season, I'm going to give him a fair shake to prove that he deserves to be here past 2019, if he doesn't have it all put together next year, then we'll start worrying about that then, but for 2018, he's coaching smarter and the team is playing hard for him. I'm going to cut him some slack.

    I want this team to be successful. Who the coach, QB, RB, WR, ect... are don't matter if the team is being successful. Big picture man...
    Last edited by Freyaka; 12-07-2018 at 10:25 AM.


  8. #4553
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    where the hills touch heaven
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    I wanted him gone

    but if VJ actually makes the post or to me even get to 9-7...considering our qb, our offensive scheme at times, the fact he had to take over the defense to correct its flaws speaks volumes

    yes he has made multiple coaching errors but inexperience is the reason, he can learn from those and improve

    but if we at least go 9-7 he should stay

  9. #4554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    For whatever reason Elway has been locked onto VJ before Kubiak coached one game as a head coach for us. Elway was going to give him a shot for reasons I do not think have been made public.
    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    We don't know why Elway chose VJ and looked at him in 2015. We don't know why he liked Osweiler and Lynch, but in the end the situation is the same as it was with Lynch - if you are found lacking and you improve you get a chance and if you don't improve you will be gone.
    Guys, it's almost certainly because of Elway's chief advisor since he arrived, Matt Russell, Broncos director of player personnel (behind some of the poor choices in that department as well). Russell and VJ were teammates at CU in the early '90s, assistants together there as well years after that, and so there's an old friendship. That's the main connection.

    Aside from that, VJ apparently has the charisma and leadership intangibles and was given strong endorsements concerning such by a number of figures starting with his former head coach in Houston Gary Kubiak who first coined the moniker "leader of men". Additionally, props came from Wade Phillips, Adam Gase, Miami CB Byron Maxwell, and even Bill Belichick! You can read that here:

    https://www.denverbroncos.com/news/b...coach-18429631
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  10. #4555
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    Nov 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    People around here havenít had much to cheer about prior to the last three weeks so you canít blame them for the orange glasses when it comes to finally winning.

    As far as VJ goes, I think ppl just want continuity. Iíd rather bring in Harbaugh and Kubiak because Keenum knows the system but if not then whatís the point of starting from scratch with a new regime thatís going to take another few years to build chemistry!
    I enjoy winning as much as the next fan.

    Just hope our goal is to win the division...maybe secure some home playoff games...maybe win a couple playoff games.

    I do not know what coach would be the answer. Shoot the most hated coach to me is McD but if someone laid a good case that he would win the Super Bowl for us next year I would welcome him to Denver.

    It really does not matter to me who the Denver HC is as long as they winning games....winning the division...getting home playoff games and winning in the playoffs.

    Things teams VJ has coached on have had a history of not doing before he became our HC and started losing a lot of games.

  11. #4556
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    Dec 2008
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    Calgary, Alberta
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    For whatever reason Elway has been locked onto VJ before Kubiak coached one game as a head coach for us. Elway was going to give him a shot for reasons I do not think have been made public.

    VJ went 8-17 his first 25 games as Head Coach.

    He goes 3-0 and all the sudden people want to pretend the first 25 games did not happen

    If VJ stays...someone will be eating crow in 2019. I am ready for mine...is everyone else ready for theirs?
    Bill Belichick was 13-19 after his first 32 games, 20-28 after his first 48.
    Bill Parcells was 12-19-1 (first season 3-12-1 and then he turned it around in year 2)
    Bill Walsh was 8-24
    Mike Shanahan was 8-12 in his first 20 games with the Raiders, 16-20 including his first Broncos season

    Now this isn't to say Joseph will turn into a Hall of Fame head coach, or even a good head coach, but if 4 of the all-time great coaches struggled during their first couple of years, doesn't that show that maybe starting off like Sean McVay is the exception not the norm?

    And it's not about ignoring the first 25 games, but it's acknowledging that maybe things change and improve as time goes on. Maybe they lose all 4 remaining and he gets fired. But right now he's 11-17, and if he gets to 15-17 or even 14-18 that shows a turnaround.

  12. #4557
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I enjoy winning as much as the next fan.

    Just hope our goal is to win the division...maybe secure some home playoff games...maybe win a couple playoff games.

    I do not know what coach would be the answer. Shoot the most hated coach to me is McD but if someone laid a good case that he would win the Super Bowl for us next year I would welcome him to Denver.

    It really does not matter to me who the Denver HC is as long as they winning games....winning the division...getting home playoff games and winning in the playoffs.

    Things teams VJ has coached on have had a history of not doing before he became our HC and started losing a lot of games.
    And now they seem to be winning. Do we ignore that because of what happened on teams he coached before Denver? Sean McVay's teams didn't do much before he became a HC, does that still matter? Or does it only matter with Joseph?

  13. #4558
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Bill Belichick was 13-19 after his first 32 games, 20-28 after his first 48.
    Bill Parcells was 12-19-1 (first season 3-12-1 and then he turned it around in year 2)
    Bill Walsh was 8-24
    Mike Shanahan was 8-12 in his first 20 games with the Raiders, 16-20 including his first Broncos season

    Now this isn't to say Joseph will turn into a Hall of Fame head coach, or even a good head coach, but if 4 of the all-time great coaches struggled during their first couple of years, doesn't that show that maybe starting off like Sean McVay is the exception not the norm?

    And it's not about ignoring the first 25 games, but it's acknowledging that maybe things change and improve as time goes on. Maybe they lose all 4 remaining and he gets fired. But right now he's 11-17, and if he gets to 15-17 or even 14-18 that shows a turnaround.
    If we're going to draw a comparison to HOF coaches then I think we also need to draw the contrast. I'm fairly sure this has been brought up here before (or I'm having incredible deja vu) and IIRC the response to it was that those coaches had considerable experience and success at the coordinator position first --which won them their HC jobs. Not so with VJ which is why he was quite a bit more in over his head to begin this HC stint. Some of those HOFers also took over bad teams which needed roster overhauls, while the Broncos still had most of the SB roster intact.

    But sure, potentially any young coach can turn it around and eventually become great. The odds are against that I believe, in part because this is generally a win now League with a low tolerance for long learning curves. And that is also part of the frustration here amongst our fanbase. We were (and still are) fairly close to our SB50 victory, and years of playoff contention with Manning before that, so the standards and expectations from the fans is very high and largely unmet these past two years. The epic losing streaks (that set multiple historical records of badness) didn't exactly instill a lot of confidence in VJ from us, and that bad aftertaste still lingers --though some have managed to wash it away with ample orange kool-aid.
    Last edited by L.M.; 12-07-2018 at 03:14 PM.
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  14. #4559
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    Mar 2008
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    Winnipeg
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    Just a distant take....seems like every year there's a topic or two that suck up a load of responses. Often it's QB related, and yes, HCs are not immune either.

    This is one of them.

    I may be repetitive, but then again, many of us are. My stance is this....

    1) I am still not convinced that VJ is the right HC for us.
    2) But when your team goes from 3 and 6 to 6 and 6, and therefore back in the playoff picture, I believe the HC is worthy of some of the praise.....again, whether or not he is the right person for the job.
    3) When I critique others, I too critique myself. I believe that there are always at least 2 sides to every story, and if I am true to myself, even if I have a strong position on something/someone, I MUST try to be open to other information.....in this case, an HC that had something to do with his team making positive strides.
    4) Does it mean he should keep his job in '19.....well, as I stated, he's not quite the right one for my liking, but it depends on how we proceed this season and of course, what Elway and the players feel about him. If The GM wants to put his own job (and possibly even his legacy) in VJ's hands to some degree, and the players are motivated by him....who am I to say!
    Last edited by CanDB; 12-07-2018 at 05:28 PM.

  15. #4560
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    Dec 2003
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    NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by JW7 View Post
    How are we in a playoff race if the starting QB, Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator and Defensive Coordinator are "piss poor" in your eyes? I understand not looking through orange glasses but your view is the exact extreme opposite and not fair or accurate.
    Let's be honest, we're still in this race by sheer luck, and nothing more. Both the Chargers game and the Steelers game were won but Tebow-esq miracles in the waning seconds of the game. We lose either one, and it's curtains. So now we have to win out against teams that are in worse shape than us, and the red hot Chargers. The amount of luck needed could possibly happen, but I agree with the poster u were responding to, you just can't chalk these wins up to some miraculous coaching epiphany had by VJ and his staff.

    I believe at the end of the day, the decision to move on will still be made
    #swapping

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