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  1. #3691
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    Dec 2016
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    Can't stop laughing at what Bill O'Brien said at the end of the 1st half. VJ is a laughing stock among NFL coaches. Sad for the Broncos that we're stuck with this guy for the rest of the year but maybe we'll end up with a top ten draft pick. I'll just be giving my tickets away to friends who never get to go to games for the remainder of the season. See ya next year at Mile High, with a new coach!

  2. #3692
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    There is simply no benefit to firing Joseph at this point in the season. None. There is nothing gained for the players, the assistants, or the organization as a whole.
    I might just disagree, but with a condition. If he is causing players to lose confidence, or making them challenge the play calling, coaching or whatever, then there is a benefit. You never want a losing culture, nor do you want to create confusion within, so if VJ is responsible for any negativity....he should be let go.

  3. #3693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid View Post
    I kind of think had McManus made the field goal this might be a different conversation?

    I saw an improved team. I also saw some really dumb offensive play calling. I don't think VJ is calling for repeated runs up the middle with a 170-pound running back. I did not see Janovich carry it up the middle once-- which makes a lot more sense. Instead, I saw Janovich out in space while the 5'-7" RB pounded it between the tackles. I just don't see how that is on VJ-- particularly with his extensive one-year experience as a DC.
    Interesting.....I created a thread after the loss to KC. It was not specifically aimed at DT, but if you remember, he was wide open had Keenum thrown the ball accurately, And if he caught it, we likely a score and win.

    But there was no joy on this board that day, nor a few days after. Essentially it was the same conversation as you propose......a win cures all.

  4. #3694
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    Feb 2007
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    This makes me mad! Either VJ is lying and telling DT crap, or VJ is purposely left in the dark and doesn't seem to think that he shouldn't give DT false hopes. When you get lied to right to your face, that would piss me off! I SUpported VJ, but after this, I'm done! Fire him tomorrow!!

    BCMB Div 1 - Rollin' with Mahomies

  5. #3695
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid View Post
    I kind of think had McManus made the field goal this might be a different conversation?

    I saw an improved team. I also saw some really dumb offensive play calling. I don't think VJ is calling for repeated runs up the middle with a 170-pound running back. I did not see Janovich carry it up the middle once-- which makes a lot more sense. Instead, I saw Janovich out in space while the 5'-7" RB pounded it between the tackles. I just don't see how that is on VJ-- particularly with his extensive one-year experience as a DC.
    Lindsay has ran well between the tackles all season. The reason he struggled yesterday was the absurd amount of counter runs that were called. Defenses are too fast to run a counter successfully with any kind of consistency especially if it isn’t set up

  6. #3696
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    Dec 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by haciendadad View Post
    This makes me mad! Either VJ is lying and telling DT crap, or VJ is purposely left in the dark and doesn't seem to think that he shouldn't give DT false hopes. When you get lied to right to your face, that would piss me off! I SUpported VJ, but after this, I'm done! Fire him tomorrow!!

    And there's so much more when you listen to the interview. He was a complete selfless Bronco and to hear how Rod Smith loves him, you know what he meant to the organization as a man, b4 a player. It's tough to hear how things are being run into the ground.
    #swapping

  7. #3697
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Lindsay has ran well between the tackles all season. The reason he struggled yesterday was the absurd amount of counter runs that were called. Defenses are too fast to run a counter successfully with any kind of consistency especially if it isn’t set up
    Look I don't want to get into counter runs and whether or not Lindsay has run the ball well or not-- no argument from me there. All I am pointing out is if McManus makes the field goal-- 'a comfortable range' effort according to Beurelein, then the decision to not pick up extra yards and try a 62-yarder at the half are irrelevant-- well maybe not to Bill O'Brien (anyone could read those lips ).

    VJ is in such a hole right now that everything that goes against the team is seemingly his fault (and I am not stating otherwise). But like CanDB points out, a couple of plays go differently this season and the discussion is different. But, I agree with most on here, VJ is in way over his head and Musgrave calls an offense like it is from the 1970's. I think the team is just deflated right now.
    https://media.giphy.com/media/cAgxSFqbyaQgeyY3VA/giphy.gif

  8. #3698
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    Quote Originally Posted by flosstein View Post
    And there's so much more when you listen to the interview. He was a complete selfless Bronco and to hear how Rod Smith loves him, you know what he meant to the organization as a man, b4 a player. It's tough to hear how things are being run into the ground.
    ......but.....but.....but.....Joseph was hired to save the locker room........smh

  9. #3699
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    Aug 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos65 View Post
    Can't stop laughing at what Bill O'Brien said at the end of the 1st half. VJ is a laughing stock among NFL coaches. Sad for the Broncos that we're stuck with this guy for the rest of the year but maybe we'll end up with a top ten draft pick. I'll just be giving my tickets away to friends who never get to go to games for the remainder of the season. See ya next year at Mile High, with a new coach!
    Just googled “what did bill obrian say at half” someone on Twitter posted a zoomed in video of him...u can clearly read what he said...gotta watch it a few times..hahahaha, that’s so bad....he really is hot garbage....just like dangerfield said... “no respect”
    I really believe that’s what others think of him smh...

  10. #3700
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    Aug 2009
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    It would not benefit the team to fire VJ mid season. any other to step in would be just interim and nothing would be expected. Keeping VJ is the logical choice at this point in time, Maybe he can learn from all this and put it together. My guess is, Vance has until seasons end to have it together. If at the end of the season, we still want to fire him, then more choices open up as for as his replacement.

  11. #3701
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    Mar 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by flosstein View Post
    And there's so much more when you listen to the interview. He was a complete selfless Bronco and to hear how Rod Smith loves him, you know what he meant to the organization as a man, b4 a player. It's tough to hear how things are being run into the ground.
    Yes at one point DT mentions how the coaches are not listening to the players. He also mentions that there is no finger pointing in Houston's locke room and that should serve them well Doesn't sound very good for our Locker room and players.
    My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter

  12. #3702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid View Post
    Look I don't want to get into counter runs and whether or not Lindsay has run the ball well or not-- no argument from me there. All I am pointing out is if McManus makes the field goal-- 'a comfortable range' effort according to Beurelein, then the decision to not pick up extra yards and try a 62-yarder at the half are irrelevant-- well maybe not to Bill O'Brien (anyone could read those lips ).

    VJ is in such a hole right now that everything that goes against the team is seemingly his fault (and I am not stating otherwise). But like CanDB points out, a couple of plays go differently this season and the discussion is different. But, I agree with most on here, VJ is in way over his head and Musgrave calls an offense like it is from the 1970's. I think the team is just deflated right now.
    This is my thing though, this team is losing close games to some of the best teams right now with some of the worst coaching and decision making I’ve ever seen. Sure 51 yards may be in McManus range but with 40 seconds and a time-out you can get 3-4 more plays in to make it even easier.

    With a competent coach this team could at the very least be 6-3, more likely 7-2

  13. #3703
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    Sep 2014
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    Is Elway truly oblivious to all this criticism? Does he really think VJ is a good coach?


  14. #3704
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    Oct 2004
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    This is not what Bowlen would have wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by FL BRONCO View Post
    Yes at one point DT mentions how the coaches are not listening to the players. He also mentions that there is no finger pointing in Houston's locke room and that should serve them well Doesn't sound very good for our Locker room and players.
    It's disgraceful that VJ is safe in his job for now. Ask what would Pat Bowlen do in this situation? Well, we don't have to speculate, he had a similar situation a little while ago and took action.

    Compare and contrast this current situation to when Josh McDaniels got fired midseason:

    1) He didn't respect the players
    2) They didn't respect him
    3) He established a culture of unprofessionalism and dishonesty
    4) He lost games, a lot of them, in a row

    This all matches up with Joseph pretty well. The only other thing, which was a big one, was that McDaniels got caught cheating with the filming thing. Other than that, it sounds like we should take the same course here. Pat Bowlen at the time said this:

    "In the end, I was not satisfied with the results and the direction this team was headed. The decision to make a change was extremely difficult but one that needed to be made for this organization and our fans," Bowlen added. "Everyone, myself included, is accountable for our disappointing season and is now responsible for restoring the culture of winning that has been established by this franchise. Our entire organization is completely focused on returning to the level of prosperity that our fans expect and deserve from the Denver Broncos."
    So let's see, it seems Bowlen felt compelled to make a change as things got out of hand. He had established a tradition of Bronco teams that, even in down years, would be competitive well into December. This was our culture, our heritage. And then it changed with a bad coach and there was no denying that the coach didn't fit in with the winning culture ways. So the owner did what he had to do to right the ship.

    After winning his first six games his rookie season, McDaniels lost 17 of his last 22 with the Broncos in his first NFL head coaching job and was fired in midseason. Vance Joseph has lost 17 of the last 25 games.

    And taking this a step further, everyone knows VJ is gone by season's end. There is no reason to stick with this losing situation and you are missing out on taking the team in a new direction. This isn't the Broncos.

    I think this delay in making this decision is more of a commentary on the poor job John Elway is doing and the lack of accountability at the very top of this organization. If Pat Bowlen were here heads would be rolling. Elway's inability to take action, to hold people accountable, his unwillingness to make the tough decisions even though we all know his gut told him to this offseason and it's telling him to now, it's dishonoring the legacy that Bowlen established here.

    John Elway is ruining this organization by sticking with VJ. If Bowlen were here now past precedent would argue that VJ would be gone. Now is a good time to do it. He probably would put someone like Musgrave in place as interim coach to give him a try out and see if that's a viable option moving forward. If not you go elsewhere in the off-season (mind you, I'm not advocating for Musgrave as our HC, but I think his name is in the mix and this would give him a chance to sink or swim).

    And why is Elway allowed to do this? Because the organization has nobody to hold him accountable. The ownership is a mess. This organization is a mess. The ship could be righted by Elway charting the correct path here, but he's not going to. Sad. The Bowlen family, Broncos Country and everyone associated or rooting for this team should be upset, dismayed and sad right now.
    Last edited by Humberg; 11-05-2018 at 09:12 PM.
    To permit irresponsible authority is to sell disaster. (Heinlein)...like Broncos season tickets!

  15. #3705
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humberg View Post
    It's disgraceful that VJ is safe in his job for now. Ask what would Pat Bowlen do in this situation? Well, we don't have to speculate, he had a similar situation a little while ago and took action.

    Compare and contrast this current situation to when Josh McDaniels got fired midseason:

    1) He didn't respect the players
    2) They didn't respect him
    3) He established a culture of unprofessionalism and dishonesty
    4) He lost games, a lot of them, in a row

    This all matches up with Joseph pretty well. The only other thing, which was a big one, was that McDaniels got caught cheating with the filming thing. Other than that, it sounds like we should take the same course here. Pat Bowlen at the time said this:



    So let's see, it seems Bowlen felt compelled to make a change as things got out of hand. He had established a tradition of Bronco teams that, even in down years, would be competitive well into December. This was our culture, our heritage. And then it changed with a bad coach and there was no denying that the coach didn't fit in with the winning culture ways. So the owner did what he had to do to right the ship.

    After winning his first six games his rookie season, McDaniels lost 17 of his last 22 with the Broncos in his first NFL head coaching job and was fired in midseason. Vance Joseph has lost 17 of the last 25 games.

    And taking this a step further, everyone knows VJ is gone by season's end. There is no reason to stick with this losing situation and you are missing out on taking the team in a new direction. This isn't the Broncos.

    I think this delay in making this decision is more of a commentary on the poor job John Elway is doing and the lack of accountability at the very top of this organization. If Pat Bowlen were here heads would be rolling. Elway's inability to take action, to hold people accountable, his unwillingness to make the tough decisions even though we all know his gut told him to this offseason and it's telling him to now, it's dishonoring the legacy that Bowlen established here.

    John Elway is ruining this organization by sticking with VJ. If Bowlen were here now past precedent would argue that VJ would be gone. Now is a good time to do it. He probably would put someone like Musgrave in place as interim coach to give him a try out and see if that's a viable option moving forward. If not you go elsewhere in the off-season (mind you, I'm not advocating for Musgrave as our HC, but I think his name is in the mix and this would give him a chance to sink or swim).

    And why is Elway allowed to do this? Because the organization has nobody to hold him accountable. The ownership is a mess. This organization is a mess. The ship could be righted by Elway charting the correct path here, but he's not going to. Sad. The Bowlen family, Broncos Country and everyone associated or rooting for this team should be upset, dismayed and sad right now.
    You also ignored that fact that Josh had more control on the team than VJ. Josh trades away promising ( at the time) players like Marshall, Hillis, TonySchefter?( TE), and Jay Cutler. We had the number two offense before he came and only really needed help on defense and he descided to blow it up instead. He also made some horrible trades like trading a first round pick to get a 2nd rounder from Pitt to get Alphonso Smith. Imagine the boards today if something like that happened. We all know how that turned out. Then what you mentioned above about the losing and the cheating. Losing the team and losing games is all they really have in common.

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