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  1. #4396
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    It could also be considered the opposite. Joseph had to call McManus for a desperate 50+ FG attempt because the poor game management did not put the team in position to win. Clock management failed, situational football failed, so the coach just washes his hands and transfers the pressure to a difficult FG kick. That's not putting the team in position to win.
    McManus FGM of +50 yards is right around 50% if I recall correctly. His FGM of 40-49 yards is around 75% if I recall correctly. Running another play in that situation could have increased the odds by 25%.

    Iíll take 75% chance over 50% any day. Not VJ.....

  2. #4397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    McManus FGM of +50 yards is right around 50% if I recall correctly. His FGM of 40-49 yards is around 75% if I recall correctly. Running another play in that situation could have increased the odds by 25%.

    I’ll take 75% chance over 50% any day. Not VJ.....
    The key mistake made on that final drive was rushing a play before the 2-minute warning when there was no reason for such a thing. For a head coach to watch his team hurrying up to run a play in that situation and then do nothing about it, just standing there... That was another "deer in headlights" moment, which is really bad for a second-year head coach.
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=349348&dateline=13355  71607

  3. #4398
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    The key mistake made on that final drive was rushing a play before the 2-minute warning when there was no reason for such a thing. For a head coach to watch his team hurrying up to run a play in that situation and then do nothing about it, just standing there... That was another "deer in headlights" moment, which is really bad for a second-year head coach.
    Which is why the last two wins donít erase those decisions and loses. As you said the wins are positive steps. At the same time we need to see continuous improvement. I think the Bengals game is somewhat of a test for this team - shouldnít be but I have a hunch it will.

  4. #4399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Which is why the last two wins don’t erase those decisions and loses. As you said the wins are positive steps. At the same time we need to see continuous improvement. I think the Bengals game is somewhat of a test for this team - shouldn’t be but I have a hunch it will.
    We can just as easily say he had them in position to win the 1st KC game (Keenum missed a wide open DT for a TD), the 2nd KC game and the Ram game. I'm sure there were some poorly executed plays by the players that cost those games.

  5. #4400
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    I don't know why you acting surprised Frey, that is what fans do, they are fickle, they run on pure emotion, one week their team is a playoff competitor, and the next they are picking in the top 5. One week they are blaming the coaches for 150 yards after missed tackles, and the next they are attacking people who don't agree with them on how much credit a coach deserves for back to back wins. I think we are somewhere in the middle honestly, a mediocre team with some serious issues at some key positions, including at head coach. And although back to back late season wins are nice, this happened last year too, it's now a matter of seeing if there is some consistency displayed by this football team to finish the season, against as easy as a schedule as you can probably get. It will be interesting if we can get back to .500 this weekend.

  6. #4401
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirehawk View Post
    We can just as easily say he had them in position to win the 1st KC game (Keenum missed a wide open DT for a TD), the 2nd KC game and the Ram game. I'm sure there were some poorly executed plays by the players that cost those games.
    The first game vs KC didnít just come down to the missed pass to DT. There were coaching decisions that contributed to the loss.

    Mahomes consistently broke contain to the right side of the defense to complete passes throughout the game. I donít recall any adjustments to keep him contained on the right side.

    When KC mounted a comeback the Broncos defense had KC at 2nd and 30 yards. What happened? Mahomes moved to the right to complete a pass. The Broncos setup a blitz on 3rd down and where did they overload? They loaded to the left side which allowed Mahomes once again to move to the right to make a 1st down.

    The Broncos coaches allowed Andy Reid and Mahomes to continue exploiting the right side of the field. The play calling by Reid went unchallenged by VJ and Woods.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 11-29-2018 at 08:14 PM.

  7. #4402
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    VJ is still having major coaching gaffes.

    Im excited as hell that we won the last two...


    ...but this team is literally 2 or 3 plays away from being a 3 win team still.

    Did VJ make Rivers beach a ball on a screen when taking a knee would have won the game?

    Did VJ deliver a hit at the one inch line that happened to force a fumble and squirt out of the endzone?

    HECK, take it a step further. Todd Davis blows an assignment and Ben misses the receiver for a sure TD. Ben throws an INT on a ball that should have never been let go.

    Better lucky than good, as its said. Like Marion Barber running out of bounds when all he had to do was stay in and its game over.

    Hooray, beer!

  8. #4403
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    VJ is still having major coaching gaffes.

    Im excited as hell that we won the last two...


    ...but this team is literally 2 or 3 plays away from being a 3 win team still.

    Did VJ make Rivers beach a ball on a screen when taking a knee would have won the game?

    Did VJ deliver a hit at the one inch line that happened to force a fumble and squirt out of the endzone?

    HECK, take it a step further. Todd Davis blows an assignment and Ben misses the receiver for a sure TD. Ben throws an INT on a ball that should have never been let go.

    Better lucky than good, as its said. Like Marion Barber running out of bounds when all he had to do was stay in and its game over.
    And on the exact flip side of that, the team is literally two plays from being 7-4. Most NFL football games come down to 2 or 3 plays making the difference.

    Those plays happened, just like Keenum missed a wide open Thomas for the winning touchdown v KC. And McManus missed the kick for the win against the Texans.

    So many games in the NFL could be flipped if we analyze one or two plays and say "if this happened then this team wins" but it didn't happen so there's really no point in playing revising it and adding asterisks that don't exist.

  9. #4404
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
    Coaches stay is they win and Get Fired if they Lose. Last Years 8 Game losing Streak was almost unbearable and this Season started out that way as well. Just like a General what happens ultimately falls on the coach. Getting Blown Out by the Jets inexcusable and losing at Home to the Texans not good for VJ truth be told Denver was getting waxed by Pittsburgh offense however we just got lucky with the fumble near the goal line the fumble by Conner and the Int in the End Zone however Denver was outplayed by Pittsburgh now I did not watch the San Diego game however a 1 point win as a Fan I will take it however I am sure that there was luck involved in that 1 as well. However I will give credit where it is due and right now I have a little bit hope unlike last year so I think both of these wins save VJ. I was on board about the firing of VJ now I am just at a wait and see approach.
    I am puzzled with these responses!

    VJ generally has been a poor coach! Every QB that has played under VJ in Denver has had near career low performances and results. He has been the definition of slightly below mediocre, and as opposed to the McDaniels situation, Josh came with a vision and plan for how he would build the team and like Shanahan could not handle the workload and all the responsibilities he was given.

    VJ has basically just been there and while JMD did a lot of good and bad, VJ has really not done anything bad other than show ineptitude.

    The thing with VJ is that he seems to be learning on the job and seem to put things more together. There is nothing that scream that VJ will ever be elite, but as long as he has the team playing hard, disciplined and well prepared - as long as he is a young John Fox type and it works in terms of the team improving you stay the course until it becomes evident that you have reached the ceiling of his coaching skills.

    I don't think anyone defending VJ at the moment does so because we think he is a shining star. Like Butler mentions it is almost always limited things that determine W/L. Orton and Manning pretty much played the same and if you wanted to list their strengths and weaknesses they were alike, except for Peyton making 5 plays more per game, and if you are in doubt VJ is Orton in this scenario!

  10. #4405
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    VJ is still having major coaching gaffes.

    Im excited as hell that we won the last two...


    ...but this team is literally 2 or 3 plays away from being a 3 win team still.

    Did VJ make Rivers beach a ball on a screen when taking a knee would have won the game?

    Did VJ deliver a hit at the one inch line that happened to force a fumble and squirt out of the endzone?

    HECK, take it a step further. Todd Davis blows an assignment and Ben misses the receiver for a sure TD. Ben throws an INT on a ball that should have never been let go.

    Better lucky than good, as its said. Like Marion Barber running out of bounds when all he had to do was stay in and its game over.
    You can't play that game without acknowledging that we are also 2-3 plays away from being a 7-8 win team. Case Keenum hits a wide open DT in KC and suddenly we're right in the thick of not only a playoff hunt, but the division. It goes both ways. You can't negate the last few weeks because of 2-3 plays without recognizing how close we are to being far better record wise than we are.


  11. #4406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    And on the exact flip side of that, the team is literally two plays from being 7-4. Most NFL football games come down to 2 or 3 plays making the difference.

    Those plays happened, just like Keenum missed a wide open Thomas for the winning touchdown v KC. And McManus missed the kick for the win against the Texans.

    So many games in the NFL could be flipped if we analyze one or two plays and say "if this happened then this team wins" but it didn't happen so there's really no point in playing revising it and adding asterisks that don't exist.
    Should have just read your post first, you basically made my point for me without me taking time to type it.


  12. #4407
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    I am puzzled with these responses!

    VJ generally has been a poor coach! Every QB that has played under VJ in Denver has had near career low performances and results.
    He's not an offensive coordinator? How is that on him as a defensive minded coach? Could that possibly be because our o-line has been hot nasty garbage since he's been here and Elway has done very little in two years to address it??

    Not to take away from other points you've made, this line just stood out to me specifically.


  13. #4408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    And on the exact flip side of that, the team is literally two plays from being 7-4. Most NFL football games come down to 2 or 3 plays making the difference.

    Those plays happened, just like Keenum missed a wide open Thomas for the winning touchdown v KC. And McManus missed the kick for the win against the Texans.

    So many games in the NFL could be flipped if we analyze one or two plays and say "if this happened then this team wins" but it didn't happen so there's really no point in playing revising it and adding asterisks that don't exist.
    Exactly. People point out specific plays/situations to support their assertion of VJ being to blame for certain losses yet they conveniently ignore specific plays/situations where VJ had did good things to put us in position to win, or worse they just refuse to give him credit and say the players won (or hung in the game) in spite of VJ. But at this point, it is what it is.

  14. #4409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    The first game vs KC didn’t just come down to the missed pass to DT. There were coaching decisions that contributed to the loss.

    Mahomes consistently broke contain to the right side of the defense to complete passes throughout the game. I don’t recall any adjustments to keep him contained on the right side.

    When KC mounted a comeback the Broncos defense had KC at 2nd and 30 yards. What happened? Mahomes moved to the right to complete a pass. The Broncos setup a blitz on 3rd down and where did they overload? They loaded to the left side which allowed Mahomes once again to move to the right to make a 1st down.

    The Broncos coaches allowed Andy Reid and Mahomes to continue exploiting the right side of the field. The play calling by Reid went unchallenged by VJ and Woods.
    As has been stated elsewhere, most games come down to 2 or 3 plays. Are you really going to knock VJ because we didn't completely contain Mahommes? Show me the team that has contained him. Of KC's 3 lowest scoring games this year, 2 of them were against us. So did every other team fail to make adjustments against Mahommes, or could it be that he is just that good? Spin it however you want, but all Case had to do was hit a wide open DT and we win that KC game. Other games have been pointed out as well where if the PLAYERS just make a play, we win the game.

  15. #4410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    He's not an offensive coordinator? How is that on him as a defensive minded coach? Could that possibly be because our o-line has been hot nasty garbage since he's been here and Elway has done very little in two years to address it??

    Not to take away from other points you've made, this line just stood out to me specifically.
    You are right that he is not an OC, but the HC, whom is responsible for the other coaches and players doing their job. While HCs can get away with using scape goats, and you can have lucky/unlucky breaks, it still washes out and comes down to wins and losses, and you rarely see teams being that different in real talent level. There is a good reason that some teams play in a sea of yellow flags and others don't. You see o-line men move from one coach/club to another and have jumps in their performance.

    Siemian is the best example for QB here - in Kubiak's offense in 2016 he looked like he was learning from mistakes and was worth fans supporting him. I - for one - liked what I saw, outside of a few horrendous games. With VJ it started hot, but as a difference from 2016, Siemian kept making the same mistakes every time he had pressure up the middle. They did not seem able to work anything out! That has been the same picture with Case until the last few games - it was the same crucial/bad decision sacks he took week after week.

    It could be an OC problem, but it was VJs responsibility! I believed that Tebow had a huge upside, so I am happy with a narrative that I actually believe that McCoy was not really that good of a coach, and was largely responsible for Siemian's/Osweiler's failures last year, but in the end everything comes back to VJ. If your coaches are not doing a good job, get them to pick up their game.

    I hope we are seeing a new more competent VJ, but Colorado has abundant amounts of fools gold, but the shine from VJ is better than it has been any time since week 3 last year!

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