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  1. #5866
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    1
    Giving Bill Musgrave the keys to the offense may have been Joseph's biggest mistake, if indeed that was his decision. Lindsay is obviously the Broncos most dangerous weapon, but he's rarely even on the field on 3rd downs. Unbelievable! Does Christian McCaffrey or Alvin Kamara or Saquon Barkley get pulled off the field on 3rd downs? Of course not. Yes Lindsay is pretty short in stature and not a great blocker, but his role is not to act as a devastating blocker anyways. He can certainly chip the defensive end on his way out to run pass patterns. But Musgrave can't even design a proper pass pattern for Lindsay to run when he is in there. Running Lindsay out of the I-formation is only going to work every so often. He needs to be out in space where he only has to beat 1 or 2 defenders, instead of 6 or 7. If he's running a pass pattern, he needs to be cutting across the field in front of the linebackers as an outlet for Keenum in case the pass rush gets too close. If Lindsay gets the ball in the middle of the field with a linebacker trying to cover him, it's going to end up with big yardage almost every time.

  2. #5867
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Roskilde, Denmark
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    2,823
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    Out of the 31 selections in the 1st round in 2016, only SIX have made the Pro Bowl, and none of them are the players that were selected after Lynch.

    I can't subscribe to the notion that missing on Lynch has set this franchise back. It just doesn't add up against the known facts.
    Another perspective is that over the last 15 years only 3 QBs chosen with the 12th to 32nd pick has won one or more playoff games.

    Those 3 QBs are:

    Aaron Rogers
    Joe Flacco
    Tim Tebow

    I think the most worrisome aspect of the draft choices made at QB is that it does not seem like the FO has a solid image of what it takes to be successful at QB. When we look at SB winning QBs in the last roughly a decade a common trait is that the SBs are won by QBs on a limited budget and surrounded by solid teams in all phases.

    Tom Brady takes less than any other top QB
    Foles is on backup money and they dont pay top dollar at QB
    Manning took a 4 mill haircut that he got back
    Russell Wilson was on his rookie contract
    Joe Flacco had not gotten top dollar
    I don't remember Eli's contract in 2011
    Aaron Rogers had not gotten paid in 2010

    VJ seems lost, and it is difficult to separate poor QB play from poor coaching. The thing with VJ is that we cannot point to a single positive from going from Kubes to VJ, whereas every other HC replacement has brought at least some areas of improvement. It is really hard to see what it was the FO saw in VJ before he was chosen and it is even harder to see it using 20:20 hindsight.

  3. #5868
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    13,223
    Thread cleaned.

    Please stay on topic.

    If and when some of you get your Christmas wish, this thread may close.
    Last edited by Rastic; 12-26-2018 at 12:38 PM.

  4. #5869
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    9,190
    I fully expect by Monday morning, no, Sunday night, the news to break. If VJ is kept yet another year then Elway is truly risking his position to the team.

  5. #5870
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    608
    Some of you are pretty harsh on a guy that's going to lose his job during the holidays. I am sure he knows it coming and now wondering about supporting his family.

    It's not like he came to Denver and wanted to do bad. He did the best he could and it's elways fault for hiring an inexperienced coach.

  6. #5871
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    the gulf of mexico
    Posts
    15,511
    Quote Originally Posted by worldsoutro View Post
    Some of you are pretty harsh on a guy that's going to lose his job during the holidays. I am sure he knows it coming and now wondering about supporting his family.

    It's not like he came to Denver and wanted to do bad. He did the best he could and it's elways fault for hiring an inexperienced coach.
    I doubt hes worried about supporting his family but regardless Its already been reported that Cincy is willing to hire him as at least the DC.

  7. #5872
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    2,926
    Quote Originally Posted by worldsoutro View Post
    Some of you are pretty harsh on a guy that's going to lose his job during the holidays. I am sure he knows it coming and now wondering about supporting his family.

    It's not like he came to Denver and wanted to do bad. He did the best he could and it's elways fault for hiring an inexperienced coach.
    Sean McVay and Matt Nagy were inexperienced, too. As far as VJ, he's lucky he wasn't canned after one year.

  8. #5873
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    2,088
    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    Sean McVay and Matt Nagy were inexperienced, too. As far as VJ, he's lucky he wasn't canned after one year.
    He should've been. The writing was on the wall after he kept giving the ball to McKenzie. I'd think after like 27 muffed punts, it was fairly obvious the dude was a liability.

  9. #5874
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    14,310
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    I fully expect by Monday morning, no, Sunday night, the news to break. If VJ is kept yet another year then Elway is truly risking his position to the team.
    I think the Sunday morning shows will definitively report that it's Joseph's last game. I would guess his office will be packed up ahead of time (he knows what's coming). And then with the game ending around 530 MST, we'll hear word between 630-7 that he's officially been relieved of his duties.

    The more curious one will be if they fire the entire staff at that point, tell them they can pursue other opportunities but could be retained, or if they tell them all that they will be retained and then the new Head Coach will make decisions on them.

    The Joseph part is a done deal, there's no saving him this year.

  10. #5875
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    14,310
    Quote Originally Posted by worldsoutro View Post
    Some of you are pretty harsh on a guy that's going to lose his job during the holidays. I am sure he knows it coming and now wondering about supporting his family.

    It's not like he came to Denver and wanted to do bad. He did the best he could and it's elways fault for hiring an inexperienced coach.

    First thing, that's the nature of the business, because the season ends when it does, you're going to get fired during the holidays. They're compensated well enough where this detail shouldn't be a big one.

    Second thing, Joseph has at least 1 year left on his deal and will be paid that entire amount whether he works or not. If he's hired by another team it will offset what the Broncos owe him, but he'll will be paid at least that amount due on his contract next year.

    Third thing, he's already got another position with the Bengals lined up. So save us from the "supporting his family" thing.

    Fourth point, it's Elway's fault he didn't do well for giving him a chance? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? He was given a chance, it didn't go well, he'll be relieved of his duties. I'm sure he's disappointed but he got an opportunity and can use this in maturing as a professional HC for the next time he gets the chance.

  11. #5876
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I doubt he’s worried about supporting his family but regardless It’s already been reported that Cincy is willing to hire him as at least the DC.
    Yes, the problem with family isn't VJs. He's been well paid as have been his coordinators. But all the other coaches are not paid nearly so well, and have moved their family around and may have some difficulty finding additional work, whereas, the likes of even VJ is he will likely find a DBacks coaching job.

  12. #5877
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    14,310
    Quote Originally Posted by Chop_Block View Post
    Yes, the problem with family isn't VJs. He's been well paid as have been his coordinators. But all the other coaches are not paid nearly so well, and have moved their family around and may have some difficulty finding additional work, whereas, the likes of even VJ is he will likely find a DBacks coaching job.
    If they have years left on their contract but aren't retained they'll be paid for those years. They can start looking for a new job December 31st (assuming the Broncos allow them to) so they will have the chance to get a new job.

    Final point, coaching is a brutally cut throat business, and if you aren't good enough you'll end up looking for something else to do quickly. For many of them coaching in the NFL is probably living a dream, but all dreams must end some time. And there are opportunities in the NCAA. Some of their coaches will go to the NFL and that will open positions down there.

  13. #5878
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Ozarks
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    13,163
    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I doubt he’s worried about supporting his family but regardless It’s already been reported that Cincy is willing to hire him as at least the DC.
    I don't know how much I would count on that if I were him, I think it is very likely that the hole coaching staff in Cincy may be gone after this year.

  14. #5879
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    Dec 2008
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
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    14,310
    Quote Originally Posted by FL BRONCO View Post
    I don't know how much I would count on that if I were him, I think it is very likely that the hole coaching staff in Cincy may be gone after this year.
    Cincy is so cheap I can't see them firing an entire staff. They keep Marvin Lewis because he's willing to be fairly cheap and do whatever they want. They even brought back Hue Jackson after his disastrous run with Cleveland because they knew him.

    I've read that the coaching staff next year will be Lewis as HC, Jackson as OC and Joseph as DC. In 2020 Lewis will retire to a front office position and one of the 2 coordinators will become the new HC.

  15. #5880
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    San Antonio
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    9,190
    Quote Originally Posted by worldsoutro View Post
    Some of you are pretty harsh on a guy that's going to lose his job during the holidays. I am sure he knows it coming and now wondering about supporting his family.

    It's not like he came to Denver and wanted to do bad. He did the best he could and it's elways fault for hiring an inexperienced coach.
    He's going to be paid more than I make in half a decade, and that's with a very good job. His contract dictates that he'll still be earning money from the Broncos, even if he isn't the head coach. He's not going to starve, and neither is his family. Based on the results we've gotten out of him, he definitely got the better deal.
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