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  1. #5941
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    What's interesting, if you want to look at the value of Peyton Manning. The Broncos record the 3 years prior to Manning's arrival in Denver (20 wins overall) is the same as the Broncos record the 3 years after he retired (20 wins overall) which suggest that their success from 2012-2015 was based entirely upon his presence..

  2. #5942
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    Quote Originally Posted by sendacash View Post
    Honest question is how do you figure? Elway clearly has no clue how to draft a QB and the coaching decisions have been horrible as well. Peyton Manning was the reason Denver was good from 2012-2015, not Elway.
    My figuring was a very simple mathematical equation.
    ( Broncos with John Elway 3~Lombardi's, The Broncos without Elway 0~Lombardi's)

    He actually hired 2 good coaches until he hired this Bum of a HC we have now.

  3. #5943
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Manning did build a great defense in 2012 and 2015. And your point falls apart when you say the coaching decisions have been horrible, he's hired 3 and the first two both went to super bowls. The third one was a horrible choice, but that doesn't nullify the first 2.

    Manning was not a reason they were great in 2015.
    Does Fox even have a coaching job right now? How was Kubiak after Peyton left?

    Manning is the biggest reason for this teams success during his time here. The success came with his arrival, and left when he departed.

  4. #5944
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    Quote Originally Posted by sendacash View Post
    What's interesting, if you want to look at the value of Peyton Manning. The Broncos record the 3 years prior to Manning's arrival in Denver (20 wins overall) is the same as the Broncos record the 3 years after he retired (20 wins overall) which suggest that their success from 2012-2015 was based entirely upon his presence..
    So, all the credit goes to Manning, huh? I guess Elway deserves none for surrounding Manning with talent on both sides of the ball. He certainly doesn't deserve credit for building one of the greatest defenses of all time, a defense that carried a broken down Manning across the finish line.

  5. #5945
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Does Fox even have a coaching job right now? How was Kubiak after Peyton left?

    Manning is the biggest reason for this teams success during his time here. The success came with his arrival, and left when he departed.
    I agree, Manning was the real deal no doubt. Folks that are wanting to take credit imo are mistaken.

  6. #5946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    The offense is tied for 8th in fewest sacks allowed through 15 games. The team was +7 - I think the offense only turned the ball over on fumbles 3 times.

    On the flip side the Broncos were 28th in 3rd down conversions. Red zone scoring ranked 14th which wasn’t terrible - the offense didn’t get to the red zone enough because they didn’t sustain drives. The other problem was McManus - ranked 25th in FGM.

    The team was also penalized too often and punt return average was horrible.

    Considering the injuries and makeshift O-line they played fairly well. We just need a better quarterback - imagine that?
    To his credit, I think Keenum deserves some kudos for his ability to escape pressure.

  7. #5947
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    So, all the credit goes to Manning, huh? I guess Elway deserves none for surrounding Manning with talent on both sides of the ball. He certainly doesn't deserve credit for building one of the greatest defenses of all time, a defense that carried a broken down Manning across the finish line.
    Yeah Wade Phillips should get that credit for the 3-4 defense, what was Del Rio thinking running a 4-3?

  8. #5948
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Does Fox even have a coaching job right now? How was Kubiak after Peyton left?

    Manning is the biggest reason for this teams success during his time here. The success came with his arrival, and left when he departed.
    Fox went to a SB and two NFC title games with Jake freaking' Delhomme. Kubiak had a good run as HC for Houston before Manning and had a winning record the year after Manning retired.

  9. #5949
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    Quote Originally Posted by sendacash View Post
    Yeah Wade Phillips should get that credit for the 3-4 defense, what was Del Rio thinking running a 4-3?
    Elway picked an unemployed Phillips off the scrap heap and gave him the best defense of his entire career.

  10. #5950
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    To his credit, I think Keenum deserves some kudos for his ability to escape pressure.
    Agree. I think it was a combination of Musgrave’s play calling and Keenum’s limitations as a playmaker that held the offense back.

  11. #5951
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Does Fox even have a coaching job right now? How was Kubiak after Peyton left?

    Manning is the biggest reason for this teams success during his time here. The success came with his arrival, and left when he departed.
    Jackson and Trevathan were why our defense was maybe one of the top defenses of all time. Trev allowed Marshall to play a role that fits him and gave us one of if not the best ILB duo that season. Jackson wreaked havoc on the interior and made Wolfe look like someone that can get pressure and is probably the only reason Sylvester Williams is still in the NFL. We’ve seen this defense without those two and while still very good, not nearly as dominant. That defense carried Peyton who had a bum foot and probably a bum throwing arm that I suspect he had began to lose a lot of feeling in given how quickly he went from elite to utter garbage.

    Did Manning help lure some of these free agents? Absolutely, especially on offense. But Von Miller probably had a lot to do with Ward, Talib, Stewart, and Ware coming here too. Elway deserves credit for drafting key players during those years as well as finding a way to manage all those star players into the cap and having the balls to fire a Super Bowl appearance and a playoff appearance after that and then convince a coach who had stepped away due to health issues to come in and handle THAT locker room and win a Super Bowl in his first season as the HC.

  12. #5952
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    Elway picked an unemployed Phillips off the scrap heap and gave him the best defense of his entire career.
    Wade has been employed 36 years out of 38 years either as a DC or HC. Pretty sure he did not need help getting a job.

    60% of those years his defense was top ten in scoring or yards.

    30% of those years his defense was top 10 in scoring and yards.

    4 times in 3 different decades (80s, 90s and 2010s) he lead a Bronco defense to top 5 in both scoring and yards

    really getting tired of some Bronco fans speaking negatively about arguably our best defensive mind in franchise history.

    The way some Bronco fans talk about Shanahan and Wade you would think they do not like

  13. #5953
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Does Fox even have a coaching job right now? How was Kubiak after Peyton left?

    Manning is the biggest reason for this teams success during his time here. The success came with his arrival, and left when he departed.
    Does he get credit for all the games he did not play in during our 2015 Super Bowl run when we earned the top seed in the AFC?

  14. #5954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Does he get credit for all the games he did not play in during our 2015 Super Bowl run when we earned the top seed in the AFC?
    Careful there, the truth can hurt sometimes.

  15. #5955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Wade has been employed 36 years out of 38 years either as a DC or HC. Pretty sure he did not need help getting a job.

    60% of those years his defense was top ten in scoring or yards.

    30% of those years his defense was top 10 in scoring and yards.

    4 times in 3 different decades (80s, 90s and 2010s) he lead a Bronco defense to top 5 in both scoring and yards

    really getting tired of some Bronco fans speaking negatively about arguably our best defensive mind in franchise history.

    The way some Bronco fans talk about Shanahan and Wade you would think they do not like
    Well, he wasn't employed in 2014. And Elway did build the best defense of Wade's entire career. I'm really getting tired of some Broncos fans who want to give all the credit to Phillips or Manning and discount Elway. As far as trophies, I've been around for all 3 of them and appreciated every one. You must have been thinking about some other fans.
    Last edited by gerontion; 12-28-2018 at 10:48 PM.

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