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  1. #4006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Which is why any coach that comes here will demand a QB early in the draft.
    Depends on close or far they think this team is. I could see a coach bypassing QB early to build the rest of the team and in the process buy himself some extra time for when he does get his QB which would likely be next year.

  2. #4007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Given how Pat McAfee absolutely raves about Tom McMahon, I'm not sure I trust this story fully. McAfee had a great career under McMahon, so I have to think there was a reason they'd ask King to change (if they did).
    I donít see how there could be a valid reason to ask one of the best punters in the league to change his technique.

    If they wanted a particular technique, they should have signed a punter that is familiar with that technique.
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  3. #4008
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    I don’t see how there could be a valid reason to ask one of the best punters in the league to change his technique.

    If they wanted a particular technique, they should have signed a punter that is familiar with that technique.
    I'd like to hear both sides of the story, because there's no way I can comprehend wanting a punter to swing his leg wildly across his body like that. I'm curious if he misunderstood what they were asking of him? Swinging your leg wildly across your body is something you usually try to coach out of new punters.

  4. #4009
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Depends on close or far they think this team is. I could see a coach bypassing QB early to build the rest of the team and in the process buy himself some extra time for when he does get his QB which would likely be next year.
    Whethere the team is near or far, the biggest need for any team, especially Denver going forward, is a young QB.

    No coach will want to sign his name to Keenum as his guy without the promise of a first round QB. If we are far off, the rookie QB will struggle like most do and we can draft around him with another high pick the draft following.

  5. #4010
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    Quote Originally Posted by rst08tierney View Post
    I truly believe that the Broncos will find success. I'm a John homer. I love him for everything on and off the field but lets not over do it with his f/a choices and last two superbowl runs....draft picks super questionable as of now...

    I give John 100percent credit for landing manning but all the other moves weren't because of John's excellent management. It all had to do with players wanting to play with a legendary qb who gave them a chance at winning a ring and boosted their potential future value playing on primetime with the sheriff.
    That's interesting. Because the 2012 defense was built almost fully before Manning was acquired. That defense was statistically equal to the 2015 team.

    The 2012 draft was the bedrock of the 2015 championship, thankfully Manning found all of those players....

    And let's also not give Manning too much credit, the Broncos got to the Super Bowl after 2013 with the greatest O in NFL history (which GM assembled that?) and then after that was decimated which GM changed things up and built one of the greatest defenses in NFL history.

    Elway hired 3 coaches, 2 of them took Denver to the Super Bowl.

    It's funny cause people cry about 2 losing seasons in a row, but how many teams have been to the Super Bowl twice in the last 5 years? How many NFL franchises would swap Denver's last 5 years for their own last 5 years? People need perspective. Look at the Eagles this year. It's hard to win every year, Denver had a good run, and were due for a downturn, which happens.

  6. #4011
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    As of the last 3 years he has made bad decisions. He's done good, but he's also the reason for 5-11 and a likely losing season again.
    He should at least be given a chance to fix the mess he created.

    You have to remember this all started when Kubiak suddenly retired. He wasn't perfect, but he's 1000x better than VJ, and likely better than anybody we're going to be able to hire after VJ is fired.

    If Kubiak was still here, this team probably at least floats by the last 2 years, instead of crashing hard with VJ

  7. #4012
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    As of the last 3 years he has made bad decisions. He's done good, but he's also the reason for 5-11 and a likely losing season again.
    Sure. But you have to look at the entire picture, not just taking a narrow scope of 2 years to suit purposes. He built two historically great teams, both within the last 5 years. They've had a downturn, it happens, especially for teams who lose a legendary QB. San Fran has never replaced Steve Young. Buffalo has never replaced Jim Kelly. Miami is still looking to replace Marino. It took Denver 13 years to replace John Elway. It's very very rare that a team goes from one legend to even another franchise QB.

    He can mitigate the pain by hiring a better coach, he's 2/3 so far, hopefully he can make that 3/4.

  8. #4013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Sure. But you have to look at the entire picture, not just taking a narrow scope of 2 years to suit purposes. He built two historically great teams, both within the last 5 years. They've had a downturn, it happens, especially for teams who lose a legendary QB. San Fran has never replaced Steve Young. Buffalo has never replaced Jim Kelly. Miami is still looking to replace Marino. It took Denver 13 years to replace John Elway. It's very very rare that a team goes from one legend to even another franchise QB.

    He can mitigate the pain by hiring a better coach, he's 2/3 so far, hopefully he can make that 3/4.
    What's disturbing to me is that Elway sounds like he doesn't think there's anything to mitigate. He seems content with the status quo.

  9. #4014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Whethere the team is near or far, the biggest need for any team, especially Denver going forward, is a young QB.

    No coach will want to sign his name to Keenum as his guy without the promise of a first round QB. If we are far off, the rookie QB will struggle like most do and we can draft around him with another high pick the draft following.
    Iím not saying we donít need a young QB, just that I donít think this is the year to draft one and if Iím a coach I donít want to tie my future to any of these QBs aside from two and if they arenít there Iím not forcing the pick just because we need it. I could easily see a coach thinking they can get by with Keenum and take an impact player elsewhere in this draft and then get a guy they like next season in whatís considered a better QB class.

  10. #4015
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
    What's disturbing to me is that Elway sounds like he doesn't think there's anything to mitigate. He seems content with the status quo.
    Elway fires Fox after he went 12-4.... Elway is pissed, and while he has made mistakes I still feel he hates losing.

    He also canít come out and say ďthe season is lost .... we are going to keep Vance since we have to pay him anyways and will help us get a better pick for the next coachĒ

    To quote Patrick Swayze... ďbe nice until it is time to not be niceĒ.... that time will he on Black Monday.

  11. #4016
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHS View Post
    Elway fires Fox after he went 12-4.... Elway is pissed, and while he has made mistakes I still feel he hates losing.

    He also can’t come out and say “the season is lost .... we are going to keep Vance since we have to pay him anyways and will help us get a better pick for the next coach”

    To quote Patrick Swayze... “be nice until it is time to not be nice”.... that time will he on Black Monday.
    I'm not even sure it'll be on Black Monday. If I had to guess I would say Joseph has his office cleaned out prior to the game on December 30th. And I think we hear that he's been let go not long after that game ends. Assuming there's no miracle turnaround.

  12. #4017
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    IOW, Elway's public statements are just diplomatic window dressing.

  13. #4018
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    VJ is gone, no way he is being kept after the DT debacle. No free agent will sign to a coach they canít trust and John Elway generally tries to lowball players as it is.

  14. #4019
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    VJ is gone, no way he is being kept after the DT debacle. No free agent will sign to a coach they canít trust and John Elway generally tries to lowball players as it is.
    What DT debacle?

    Just because DT said it, doesnít mean itís true.

    Free agents will go where the money is.

    I think VJ is gone after the season unless thereís a miracle turnaround that at least gets them into the playoff conversation.

    I donít think it will have anything to do with DTís comments.
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  15. #4020
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHS View Post
    Elway fires Fox after he went 12-4.... Elway is pissed, and while he has made mistakes I still feel he hates losing.

    He also can’t come out and say “the season is lost .... we are going to keep Vance since we have to pay him anyways and will help us get a better pick for the next coach”

    To quote Patrick Swayze... “be nice until it is time to not be nice”.... that time will he on Black Monday.
    That is exactly right!

    Firstly, VJ's status has to be that he is on the way out - maybe not fired but like Foxey mutually agreeing to end the cooperation. In the end the way McDaniels was treated and how short of a leash he had, was likely part of the reason that Jim Harbaugh did not even visit with the Broncos for the 2011 season, and a short on patience HC rotation system like the one Raiders and the Browns have run for over a decade, does not bode well for attracting good HC's, who do not have a special tie to the Broncos.

    If we hit streaks of excellence (not likely) VJ might not be fired, but I just don't see where those things should come from

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