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  1. #1
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    Complete Draft Classes fro 2011-17

    So here are Joe Elis and John Elways Draft picks from 2011-17 lets evaluate and discuss. Of course we really can't evaluate the 2017 or 16 draft selections however I've listed them anyway.

    2017
    1 Garett Bolles 20 T
    2 DeMarcus Walker 51 DE
    3 Carlos Henderson 82 WR
    3 Brendan Langley 101 CB
    5 Jake Butt 145 TE
    5 Isaiah McKenzie 172 WR
    6 De'Angelo Henderson 203 RB
    7 Chad Kelly 253 QB


    2016
    1 Paxton Lynch 26 QB=So far a miss
    2 Adam Gotsis 63 DT=Showing consistent progress
    3 Justin Simmons 98 FS=Starter
    4 Devontae Booker 136 RB=solid nothing spectacular
    5 Connor McGovern 144 G=Jury still out
    6 Andy Janovich 176 FB=showed progress when on field
    6 Will Parks 219 S=solid on defense
    7 Riley Dixon 228 P=solid

    2015
    1 Shane Ray 23 DE=Hit
    2 Ty Sambrailo 59 T=Miss
    3 Jeff Heuerman 92 TE=Miss
    4 Max Garcia 133 C=Miss
    5 Lorenzo Doss 164 CB=Jury still out
    6 Darius Kilgo 203 NT=Miss
    7 Trevor Siemian 250 QB=Nothing Special
    7 Taurean Nixon 251 CB=Miss

    2014
    1 Bradley Roby 31 DB=Hit
    2 Cody Latimer 56 WR=Miss (he was drafted to play offense not special teams)
    3 Michael Schofield 95 OL=Miss
    5 Lamin Barrow 156 LB=Miss
    6 Matt Paradis 207 OL=Big Time Hit
    7 Corey Nelson 242 LB=So far a miss

    2013
    1 Sylvester Williams 28 DT=Miss
    2 Montee Ball 58 RB=Big Time Miss
    3 Kayvon Webster 90 DB=Hit
    5 Quanterus Smith 146 DE=Miss
    5 Tavarres King 161 WR=Miss
    6 Vinston Painter 173 G=Miss
    7 Zac Dysert 234 QB=Miss

    2012
    2 Derek Wolfe 36 DT=Hit
    2 Brock Osweiler 57 QB=Miss
    3 Ronnie Hillman 67 RB=Miss
    4 Omar Bolden 101 DB=Miss
    4 Philip Blake 108 OL=Miss
    5 Malik Jackson 137 DT=Hit
    6 Danny Trevathan 188 LB=Hit

    2011
    1 Von Miller OLB=Hit of course
    2 Rahim Moore S=Biggest Miss
    2 Orlando Franklin RT=Dissapointment
    3 Nate Irving LB=Miss
    4 Quinton Carter CB=Miss
    4 Julius Thomas TE=Hit however a Jay Cutler type attitude
    6 Mike Mohamed LB=Miss
    7 Virgil Green TE=Dissapointment
    7Jeremy Beal DE=Miss

    Rookie Free Agents Chris Harris Jr. CB and Shaquil Barrett OLB=Big Time Hits!

    Not counting the 2017-16 draft selections I have 25 Missed prospect compared to 10 hits from 2011-15. We cant lie to ourselves here folks, the fish rots from the head down.

    These are not Vance Josephs, Mike McCoys or Billy Musgraves selections, this is what they were given. However I do hold VJ accountable for refusing to play such players like Andy Janovich and DeAngelo Henderson or for placing Jake Butt and Chad Kelly but aside from that, this debacle is more of the FOs fault than anyone elses.

    These failed draft picks have finally caught up to management (cant say we didn't see it coming) and there is no more denying the fact and that these guys starting with Elway and Elis need to stand up and assume responsibility and be held accountable.

    We cannot have 25 failed draft prospects in just 5 draft classes, guys like Omar Bolden and Rahm Moore... It is only going to get worse unless the FO wakes up and gets the proper scouts and talent evaluators in here. Not only that but the earlier successful selections could have been credited to Ted Sundquist rather than Elis or Elway which is a scarey thought.
    Bradley Chubb has an Aaron Donald type ability to disrupt and wreck games!

  2. #2
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    Orlando Franklin was a hit, when he was here
    Rod Smith for the HOF. TEBOW RULES!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUMCALC View Post
    Orlando Franklin was a hit, when he was here
    He was a part of the great 2013 offense but he struggled consistently, I wouldn't say he was a hit but he was solid for a time. IMO hes a miss otherwise hed be on the team now other than sitting his couch on sundays now that Washington cut him.
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 11-06-2017 at 09:02 PM.
    Bradley Chubb has an Aaron Donald type ability to disrupt and wreck games!

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    2 Rahim Moore S=Biggest Miss

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    So here are Joe Elis and John Elways Draft picks from 2011-17 lets evaluate and discuss. Of course we really can't evaluate the 2017 or 16 draft selections however I've listed them anyway.

    2017
    1 Garett Bolles 20 T
    2 DeMarcus Walker 51 DE
    3 Carlos Henderson 82 WR
    3 Brendan Langley 101 CB
    5 Jake Butt 145 TE
    5 Isaiah McKenzie 172 WR
    6 De'Angelo Henderson 203 RB
    7 Chad Kelly 253 QB


    2016
    1 Paxton Lynch 26 QB=So far a miss
    2 Adam Gotsis 63 DT=Showing consistent progress
    3 Justin Simmons 98 FS=Starter
    4 Devontae Booker 136 RB=solid nothing spectacular
    5 Connor McGovern 144 G=Jury still out
    6 Andy Janovich 176 FB=showed progress when on field
    6 Will Parks 219 S=solid on defense
    7 Riley Dixon 228 P=solid

    2015
    1 Shane Ray 23 DE=Hit
    2 Ty Sambrailo 59 T=Miss
    3 Jeff Heuerman 92 TE=Miss
    4 Max Garcia 133 C=Miss
    5 Lorenzo Doss 164 CB=Jury still out
    6 Darius Kilgo 203 NT=Miss
    7 Trevor Siemian 250 QB=Nothing Special
    7 Taurean Nixon 251 CB=Miss

    2014
    1 Bradley Roby 31 DB=Hit
    2 Cody Latimer 56 WR=Miss (he was drafted to play offense not special teams)
    3 Michael Schofield 95 OL=Miss
    5 Lamin Barrow 156 LB=Miss
    6 Matt Paradis 207 OL=Big Time Hit
    7 Corey Nelson 242 LB=So far a miss

    2013
    1 Sylvester Williams 28 DT=Miss
    2 Montee Ball 58 RB=Big Time Miss
    3 Kayvon Webster 90 DB=Hit
    5 Quanterus Smith 146 DE=Miss
    5 Tavarres King 161 WR=Miss
    6 Vinston Painter 173 G=Miss
    7 Zac Dysert 234 QB=Miss

    2012
    2 Derek Wolfe 36 DT=Hit
    2 Brock Osweiler 57 QB=Miss
    3 Ronnie Hillman 67 RB=Miss
    4 Omar Bolden 101 DB=Miss
    4 Philip Blake 108 OL=Miss
    5 Malik Jackson 137 DT=Hit
    6 Danny Trevathan 188 LB=Hit

    2011
    1 Von Miller OLB=Hit of course
    2 Rahim Moore S=Biggest Miss
    2 Orlando Franklin RT=Dissapointment
    3 Nate Irving LB=Miss
    4 Quinton Carter CB=Miss
    4 Julius Thomas TE=Hit however a Jay Cutler type attitude
    6 Mike Mohamed LB=Miss
    7 Virgil Green TE=Dissapointment
    7Jeremy Beal DE=Miss

    Rookie Free Agents Chris Harris Jr. CB and Shaquil Barrett OLB=Big Time Hits!

    Not counting the 2017-16 draft selections I have 25 Missed prospect compared to 10 hits from 2011-15. We cant lie to ourselves here folks, the fish rots from the head down.

    These are not Vance Josephs, Mike McCoys or Billy Musgraves selections, this is what they were given. However I do hold VJ accountable for refusing to play such players like Andy Janovich and DeAngelo Henderson or for placing Jake Butt and Chad Kelly but aside from that, this debacle is more of the FOs fault than anyone elses.

    These failed draft picks have finally caught up to management (cant say we didn't see it coming) and there is no more denying the fact and that these guys starting with Elway and Elis need to stand up and assume responsibility and be held accountable.

    We cannot have 25 failed draft prospects in just 5 draft classes, guys like Omar Bolden and Rahm Moore... It is only going to get worse unless the FO wakes up and gets the proper scouts and talent evaluators in here. Not only that but the earlier successful selections could have been credited to Ted Sundquist rather than Elis or Elway which is a scarey thought.
    I think your grading is too harsh, but that's besides the point. The bigger flaw is you're not painting a complete picture. You also need to evaluate all the free agents and rookie free agents Elway has signed. You also need to evaluate the players Elway let go, and the players he re-signed. You then need to compare all his actions to all the actions taken by every other GM in the league. The fact is John Elway took the flaming wreckage of the McDummy era and built one of the most successful teams in the NFL over the last 5 or 6 years. Only the Patriots and Seahawks have done as well or better. Now, you can give all the credit to Manning or Wade Phillips, or whoever you want. Even then, it was Elway, as a former great QB, who coaxed Manning into signing with Denver. Manning could have picked a number of spots, but it was Elway who skillfully reeled him in. It was Elway who picked Phillips off the scrap heap when no one else wanted him.

    He's been far from perfect. No doubt. I also have no doubt he'll do whatever he can to make things better.

  6. #6
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    Some harsh truth coming...

    Two drafted pro bowlers during this whole time...Von and Julius Thomas.

    Very little value in second round...Moore, Ty Sambrailo, Latimer, Montee Ball, Brock, probably Damarcus Walker. Gotsis might pan out.

    The late round picks have been better for value...Siemian, Trevathan, Malik, Paradis, Parks. Some of them still on the team...

    Virtually no blue chip players on this list. Instead we acquired them via FA....Manning, Ware, Ward, Welker, Talib. But now just one of those names is still on the team (but old) and there won't be a second wave of players that good, nor a Manning-like incentive for them to come.

    Two coaching hires didn't work out and no culture of winning or accountability was developed after Peyton. We won a single SB on Manning's last stand and at the peak of an aging defense, led by a coordinator who was let go, and now doing well elsewhere.

    So what are we left with?

    Something fairly hollow. The remnants of a legacy defense that cannot be sustained indefinitely, no drafted elite players to carry on the legacy, enough mediocre starters to have a coherent roster but no elite guys to build a team around or develop an identity.

    It will be hard to be a powerhouse franchise for some time due to this management.
    Last edited by cmc0605; 11-06-2017 at 09:20 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc0605 View Post
    Some harsh truth coming...

    Two drafted pro bowlers during this whole time...Von and Julius Thomas.

    Very little value in second round...Moore, Ty Sambrailo, Latimer, Montee Ball, Brock, probably Damarcus Walker. Gotsis might pan out.

    The late round picks have been better for value...Siemian, Trevathan, Malik, Paradis, Parks. Some of them still on the team...

    Virtually no blue chip players on this list. Instead we acquired them via FA....Manning, Ware, Ward, Welker, Talib. But now just one of those names is still on the team (but old) and there won't be a second wave of players that good, nor a Manning-like incentive for them to come.

    Two coaching hires didn't work out and no culture of winning or accountability was developed after Peyton. We won a single SB on Manning's last stand and at the peak of an aging defense, led by a coordinator who was let go, and now leads the league in turnovers somewhere else.

    So what are we left with?

    Something fairly hollow. The remnants of a legacy defense that cannot be sustained indefinitely, no drafted elite players to carry on the legacy, enough mediocre starters to have a coherent roster but no elite guys to build a team around or develop an identity.

    It eill be hard to be a powerhouse franchise for some time due to this management.
    Derek Wolfe and Adam Gotsis two second rd starters currently.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    I think your grading is too harsh, but that's besides the point. The bigger flaw is you're not painting a complete picture. You also need to evaluate all the free agents and rookie free agents Elway has signed. You also need to evaluate the players Elway let go, and the players he re-signed. You then need to compare all his actions to all the actions taken by every other GM in the league. The fact is John Elway took the flaming wreckage of the McDummy era and built one of the most successful teams in the NFL over the last 5 or 6 years. Only the Patriots and Seahawks have done as well or better. Now, you can give all the credit to Manning or Wade Phillips, or whoever you want. Even then, it was Elway, as a former great QB, who coaxed Manning into signing with Denver. Manning could have picked a number of spots, but it was Elway who skillfully reeled him in. It was Elway who picked Phillips off the scrap heap when no one else wanted him.

    He's been far from perfect. No doubt. I also have no doubt he'll do whatever he can to make things better.
    Elway has received plenty of praise for what he did for this team in the past but fair is fair and he needs to be held accountable for the now. He doesn't get a free pass just because of his past success. We've already given him praise for that moment in time back in 2015 but that time is over and this is what is happening now.

    Whats harsh about my grading? As far as evaluating everything you mentioned, I am only grading out his actual draft picks because in the end that is what is most important for the success of any franchise.

    Now if want to evaluate all that you've mentioned then you should have at it, the floor is yours. Give us your assessment based on your own demands. That is why I posted the thread...

  9. #9
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    The scout department deserves a lot of the blame Thatís why Kubes leads it now

  10. #10
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    I disagree on the players below and gave my reasoning. I guess it just depends on what you expect to get out of each round of the draft.


    2015
    7 Trevor Siemian 250 QB= Solid backup QB- Worth a late 7th rounder.

    2014
    4 Omar Bolden 101 DB - solid rotational player who was great on special teams

    2011
    2 Rahim Moore S=I would consider him solid. Was a solid starter for 4 years.
    2 Orlando Franklin RT=Same as above
    4 Quinton Carter CB=Wouldnt consider him a miss... he showed a lot of promise just had injury problems
    7 Virgil Green TE=Hit - got a great blocking TE late in the draft. Only reason people consider him a miss is they keep expecting him to be Julius Thomas that can block. He is a great blocker and teams need that on the roster
    "I'm scared if I stop all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHOC View Post
    The scout department deserves a lot of the blame Thatís why Kubes leads it now
    Oh believe, I haven't forgotten about them and I'm happy that Kubiak is here.

    By hiring him on perhaps John already has accepted this being a huge offense against himself. If that is the case than the drafting should get better however it's a shame it's taken this long.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc0605 View Post
    Some harsh truth coming...

    Two drafted pro bowlers during this whole time...Von and Julius Thomas.

    Very little value in second round...Moore, Ty Sambrailo, Latimer, Montee Ball, Brock, probably Damarcus Walker. Gotsis might pan out.

    The late round picks have been better for value...Siemian, Trevathan, Malik, Paradis, Parks. Some of them still on the team...

    Virtually no blue chip players on this list. Instead we acquired them via FA....Manning, Ware, Ward, Welker, Talib. But now just one of those names is still on the team (but old) and there won't be a second wave of players that good, nor a Manning-like incentive for them to come.

    Two coaching hires didn't work out and no culture of winning or accountability was developed after Peyton. We won a single SB on Manning's last stand and at the peak of an aging defense, led by a coordinator who was let go, and now doing well elsewhere.

    So what are we left with?

    Something fairly hollow. The remnants of a legacy defense that cannot be sustained indefinitely, no drafted elite players to carry on the legacy, enough mediocre starters to have a coherent roster but no elite guys to build a team around or develop an identity.

    It will be hard to be a powerhouse franchise for some time due to this management.
    So, only drafted pro bowlers count? In any event, a number of teams who have drafted more pro bowlers haven't been nearly as successful as Denver.

    Which two coaching hires didn't work? John Fox led us back to respectability and even an AFC title. Kubiak helped us win a title. By the way, this team has had a culture of winning since about the mid 80s. It didn't end with Manning.

    Oh, but now we're hollow. The "remnants" of a legacy defense are still good enough to be ranked as one of the best in the NFL, despite what happened in Philly. We still have two very good WRs and a good RB corps. We have three solid OL pieces in Bolles, Paradis, and Leary. Hollow is what McD left us.

  13. #13
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    Sandy Clough said yesterday Elway's drafts have produced the fewest Pro Bowlers in the NFL, tied with Cleveland and NO for the fewest. They've been very poor by any measure.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acedude View Post
    Sandy Clough said yesterday Elway's drafts have produced the fewest Pro Bowlers in the NFL, tied with Cleveland and NO for the fewest. They've been very poor by any measure.
    Looking at Elway's draft picks, I think Malik Jackson deserved Pro Bowl consideration when he helped us win the Super Bowl. I see Derek Wolfe as a borderline Pro Bowler when he is healthy. Danny Trevathan played like a Pro Bowl LB for the Broncos. Janovich can easily become a Pro Bowl fullback like Kuhn and Juszczyk with his running and receiving skills, but he must be in a different system with a plan for the fullback.
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=349348&dateline=13355  71607

  15. #15
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    This makes me sick. If John Elway actually is making this picks then someone needs to tell him to stop. If its the scouting team then they need to go. Something needs to be done.

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