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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Yikes, that's pathetic. It's the play making ability that we all loved to watch and counted on - probably a little too much. But it's the identity of our team, and now we don't even have that. It's painful.

    And not everyone deserves a second chance when there's so much evidence to the contrary that they've pretty much wrecked your team. Why give them another chance to wreck it further?
    When you get into a car accident are you allowed to get back into another vehicle and drive again? Or is your license stripped and never allowed to drive again? You proved you are not a capable driver so why should you be given a 2nd chance?

  2. #212
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    Nov 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEN4EVER View Post
    With pretty much the same roster.
    You could argue better, with more talent. Our run D improved. ( thanks peko ) that's about it.

    Thanks for the numbers btw.
    I looked it up since you mentioned it

    2016 Run Def 28th

    2017 Run Def 5th

    Peko was a pretty good bright spot for the Broncos this year and VJ was part of his success.

    We are still reaching at finding success stories and only finding a handful from a Defense that was historically good under another DC
    A good plan put into motion today is better than the ideal plan that is always coming sometime in the future.

  3. #213
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    Aug 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    When you get into a car accident are you allowed to get back into another vehicle and drive again? Or is your license stripped and never allowed to drive again? You proved you are not a capable driver so why should you be given a 2nd chance?
    what if you get in an accident every time you get behind the wheel?

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    When you get into a car accident are you allowed to get back into another vehicle and drive again? Or is your license stripped and never allowed to drive again? You proved you are not a capable driver so why should you be given a 2nd chance?
    One could argue a football season....specially the Broncos 2017 season....was more then one accident.

    Pretty sure an insurance company would jack my insurance way up if I drove my car from Sept - Dec how VJ ran the Broncos every week during that time frame. But hey it looked good at practice
    A good plan put into motion today is better than the ideal plan that is always coming sometime in the future.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEN4EVER View Post
    He can go prove it elsewhere.
    He had 17 games to improve.
    All we did was go backwards.

    Let him go coach the browns or NYG/J
    ( our equivalents this season. )
    ( cringes*ouch )
    *pukes*

    He can prove himself there, we ain't much better then those teams, so it'll be the perfect landong spot for his sorry butt
    All I can say is I hope that he proves all you negative naysayers wrong. I will be the 1st in line to eat a plate of crow if he screws it up again but I have faith next season will be a winning 1, we'll see.....

  6. #216
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Good decision, no panic and not giving in to the kneejerk reaction fans.

    Continuity is good and I am sure VJ will learn from any rookie mistakes going forward. The players and Kubiak seem high on him, lets improve the talent level on offense and find a QB and move forward next season.
    Continuity. What are we continuing though except bad coaching.
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Maybe I'm crazy but I think it's premature to say next season is a write off before this season is even finished. A lot can change based on free agency, the draft and players maturing and getting better.

    Reality on January 1, 2018 is different than it will be in late July 2018 when the team reports to camp.
    Your right.
    Least in my eyes.

    There's just nothing he's shown ( so far ) thst gives (me) ANY hope at all.

    FA? Well just attract low effort, money hungry guys who want to get paid > winning.

    Draft? He cant develop the players we have ( with experience ) Now we gotta place our hope that he'll groom rookies up to NFL starter levels?

    I just don't see it man.
    God I hope I'm wrong, about everything.

    To me, this is Elway patting VJ on the back and whiping his tears and saying.
    " Its ok Vance, we can try again next season "

    Sorry, but that doesn't cut It for me.
    Dude would have his bags packed for em, and shown the door by the end of the KC game. ( prolly after the 8 game losing streak ) If I was the GM.
    ( thankfully I'm not )

  8. #218
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Btw for comparison

    2016

    3rd sacks
    12th Ints
    13th Forcing Fumbles
    4th in Scoring

    So in Defense...which is supposed to VJ's thing...he made the team much worse.
    It's easy to cherry pick stats and not look at the whole picture.

    What's lost in your post is that the defense in 2016 allowed teams to score at will on opening drives, couldn't get off the field on third down (including many third and long situations), and allowed teams to run all over them. Further, many of the points given up this season came off the 30+ giveaways by the offense.

    Again, I'm not trying to sit here and tell you Vance is going to be an elite head coach but let's not sit here and act like the team wasn't in decline at the end of the 2016 season or that our quarterback situation at the beginning of this season was anything other than a mess.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    All I can say is I hope that he proves all you negative naysayers wrong. I will be the 1st in line to eat a plate of crow if he screws it up again but I have faith next season will be a winning 1, we'll see.....
    After the draft maybe there will be reason for hope. After we bring in some new coaches, new free agents and a top 5 draft pick there will be reasons for hope.

    Right now....there is nothing but an utterly failure of a 2017 season when a rookie head coach looked way over his head and his team put some seriously questionable effort into the games.

    The only reason to keep VJ is because of his contract and Elway's man crush....which if Elway had things his was we would have gotten VJ with Kubiak....no Wade....and very easy to argue no SB50 win.
    A good plan put into motion today is better than the ideal plan that is always coming sometime in the future.

  10. #220
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    Dec 2008
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    Calgary, Alberta
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEN4EVER View Post
    Your right.
    Least in my eyes.

    There's just nothing he's shown ( so far ) thst gives (me) ANY hope at all.

    FA? Well just attract low effort, money hungry guys who want to get paid > winning.

    Draft? He cant develop the players we have ( with experience ) Now we gotta place our hope that he'll groom rookies up to NFL starter levels?

    I just don't see it man.
    God I hope I'm wrong, about everything.

    To me, this is Elway patting VJ on the back and whiping his tears and saying.
    " Its ok Vance, we can try again next season "

    Sorry, but that doesn't cut It for me.
    Dude would have his bags packed for em, and shown the door by the end of the KC game. ( prolly after the 8 game losing streak ) If I was the GM.
    ( thankfully I'm not )
    Until it actually plays out we'll never know. This was a bad season no doubt, but things can change quickly from one year to the next.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I looked it up since you mentioned it

    2016 Run Def 28th

    2017 Run Def 5th

    Peko was a pretty good bright spot for the Broncos this year and VJ was part of his success.

    We are still reaching at finding success stories and only finding a handful from a Defense that was historically good under another DC
    Think its time to get off mobile so I can +1 ya.
    Killing it with the stats bro.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    All I can say is I hope that he proves all you negative naysayers wrong. I will be the 1st in line to eat a plate of crow if he screws it up again but I have faith next season will be a winning 1, we'll see.....
    I'd be the first to say I'm wrong because that would be great.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    It's easy to cherry pick stats and not look at the whole picture.

    What's lost in your post is that the defense in 2016 allowed teams to score at will on opening drives, couldn't get off the field on third down (including many third and long situations), and allowed teams to run all over them. Further, many of the points given up this season came off the 30+ giveaways by the offense.

    Again, I'm not trying to sit here and tell you Vance is going to be an elite head coach but let's not sit here and act like the team wasn't in decline at the end of the 2016 season or that our quarterback situation at the beginning of this season was anything other than a mess.
    Like how you are Cherry picking posts? We discussed 2 stats that favor VJ

    Those stats reflect play making. Sacks and turnovers. Pretty much all former players and coaches say points allowed is a better measurement then yards allowed. Those stats were picked for a reason.

    Are you trying to say turnovers and scoring are not important in the NFL?

    It still seems a pretty good argument the defense does not make the same amount of plays under VJ as it did with Wade as DC....and defense is supposed to be VJ's thing. If he is failing to make the team better there then why would anyone think he would make the team better anywhere? Specially on offense where we need help the most?
    A good plan put into motion today is better than the ideal plan that is always coming sometime in the future.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Like how you are Cherry picking posts? We discussed 2 stats that favor VJ

    Those stats reflect play making. Sacks and turnovers. Pretty much all former players and coaches say points allowed is a better measurement then yards allowed. Those stats were picked for a reason.

    Are you trying to say turnovers and scoring are not important in the NFL?

    It still seems a pretty good argument the defense does not make the same amount of plays under VJ as it did with Wade as DC....and defense is supposed to be VJ's thing. If he is failing to make the team better there then why would anyone think he would make the team better anywhere? Specially on offense where we need help the most?
    The head coach shouldn't be doing a lot with either unit. He'd ultimately okay the schemes, and he would be presented and have final say over game plans, but it's unlikely unless it's something completely off the wall that he would give anything but a rubber stamp approval for the offense.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    The head coach shouldn't be doing a lot with either unit. He'd ultimately okay the schemes, and he would be presented and have final say over game plans, but it's unlikely unless it's something completely off the wall that he would give anything but a rubber stamp approval for the offense.
    But even then,
    Every last coach showed next to nothing this year, and got fired. Didnt he pick his staff, or was that handed to him as well?

    Either way. Cleaning house is the only logical option. (Imo)

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