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  1. #31
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    Jul 2013
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    I am seeing some making assumptions on the context of the issue and the issues actually going on in the locker room.

    IMO a big difference between ignoring contradictory info (where did this come from?) . A vet telling a rookie to ignore a coach seems pretty egregious to me. Not what I have read.

    In the story I am seeing coddled rookies resistant to accepting criticism or help. I am seeing terms from established vets like "entitlement" and "respect to vets" . Even Joseph mentioning how he needs to be more proactive in "dragging the rookies along".

    Also the concept of "constructive criticism" being used. Many might have very different ideas of what that is or should be. Some players work best with a pat on the back , others with a kick in the backside. One player might have a problem with an expletive filled criticism just as much as a vet would take it personal if a rookie dismissed him offhand. Communication is critical. The reality is that not every one of these players has the abilities to communicate effectively.

    Misunderstandings and bruised egos are expected as any roster of players with a wide disparity of age range, educational, economic and racial backgrounds all get thrown onto a field to compete at the highest level in a cut throat business with millions of dollars on the line every day. No stress there! Add a disappointing losing season and it gets even more complicated. I would have preferred the dirty laundry not out there for all to see. But can be addressed along with other issues in preparation for next year.

  2. #32
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    Aug 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    I am seeing some making assumptions on the context of the issue and the issues actually going on in the locker room.

    IMO a big difference between ignoring contradictory info (where did this come from?) . A vet telling a rookie to ignore a coach seems pretty egregious to me. Not what I have read.

    In the story I am seeing coddled rookies resistant to accepting criticism or help. I am seeing terms from established vets like "entitlement" and "respect to vets" . Even Joseph mentioning how he needs to be more proactive in "dragging the rookies along".

    Also the concept of "constructive criticism" being used. Many might have very different ideas of what that is or should be. Some players work best with a pat on the back , others with a kick in the backside. One player might have a problem with an expletive filled criticism just as much as a vet would take it personal if a rookie dismissed him offhand. Communication is critical. The reality is that not every one of these players has the abilities to communicate effectively.

    Misunderstandings and bruised egos are expected as any roster of players with a wide disparity of age range, educational, economic and racial backgrounds all get thrown onto a field to compete at the highest level in a cut throat business with millions of dollars on the line every day. No stress there! Add a disappointing losing season and it gets even more complicated. I would have preferred the dirty laundry not out there for all to see. But can be addressed along with other issues in preparation for next year.
    I was simply providing plausible option for the reasoning behind WHY some of these issues may be bubbling up to the surface. I agree with the vast majority of what you've written here as well. That is also why I think that the coaches (starting with the HC) needs to take a more disciplinary role on the team. Especially if the team was not playing well. Letting egos, feuds and scuffles impact the team for a prolonged period is frankly unacceptable. The young players on this team need to either step up or step out. It is up to the coaches to implement a system by which ALL players can speak up and provide suggestions to all players in a positive way. The message needs to be improving yourself is the same as improving the team as a whole.

  3. #33
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    Oct 2007
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    5,201
    As a shift supervisor in a factory I am baffled when I get a new hire between 18-22 years old. They donít listen, donít follow instructions, act like the job is beneath them, and donít treat their elders with respect. Seems like a nation wide epidemic. It literally seems like 90% of kids in that age group are straight up entitled punks. Parents let them do whatever the heck they want, liberal arts colleges teach a sense of entitlement and how everyone should be treated equally, and kids are given participation trophies even if they didnít put forth the effort the winner did. Not trying to be political, but we are raising a nation full of whining, thin-skinned, entitled punks. When I played in high school my coach would grab me by the face mask and tell me Iím a piece of cow dung who couldnít fight my way out of a wet paper bag. He routinely called me a few vulgar words and would push me and degrade me every chance he got. I didnít pout about it, I didnít go tell my mommy, and I darn sure didnít show him any disrespect. It made me try harder and get better. Kids today are complete punks, offended by everything, and it seems like itís starting to show in professional sports as well. Harris is top 5 at his position in the NFL, McKenzie canít even field a darn punt and thatís what he did in college and what he was brought here to do. Shut your pie hole rook and start putting in applications at McDonalds, cause youíll be out of the league by 2019.
    Last edited by KWHIT97; 01-26-2018 at 01:23 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWHIT97 View Post
    As a shift supervisor in a factory I am baffled when I get a new hire between 18-22 years old. They donít listen, donít follow instructions, act like the job is beneath them, and donít treat their elders with respect. Seems like a nation wide epidemic. It literally seems like 90% of kids in that age group are straight up entitled punks. Parents let them do whatever the heck they want, liberal arts colleges teach a sense of entitlement and how everyone should be treated equally, and kids are given participation trophies even if they didnít put forth the effort the winner did. Not trying to be political, but we are raising a nation full of whining, thin-skinned, entitled punks. When I played in high school my coach would grab me by the face mask and tell me Iím a piece of cow dung who couldnít fight my way out of a wet paper bag. He routinely called me a few vulgar words and would push me and degrade me every chance he got. I didnít pout about it, I didnít go tell my mommy, and I darn sure didnít show him any disrespect. It made me try harder and get better. Kids today are complete punks, offended by everything, and it seems like itís starting to show in professional sports as well. Harris is top 5 at his position in the NFL, McKenzie canít even field a darn punt and thatís what he did in college and what he was brought here to do. Shut your pie hole rook and start putting in applications at McDonalds, cause youíll be out of the league by 2019.
    Making callous overgeneralizations never did much good.

  5. #35
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWHIT97 View Post
    As a shift supervisor in a factory I am baffled when I get a new hire between 18-22 years old. They don’t listen, don’t follow instructions, act like the job is beneath them, and don’t treat their elders with respect. Seems like a nation wide epidemic. It literally seems like 90% of kids in that age group are straight up entitled punks. Parents let them do whatever the heck they want, liberal arts colleges teach a sense of entitlement and how everyone should be treated equally, and kids are given participation trophies even if they didn’t put forth the effort the winner did. Not trying to be political, but we are raising a nation full of whining, thin-skinned, entitled punks. When I played in high school my coach would grab me by the face mask and tell me I’m a piece of cow dung who couldn’t fight my way out of a wet paper bag. He routinely called me a few vulgar words and would push me and degrade me every chance he got. I didn’t pout about it, I didn’t go tell my mommy, and I darn sure didn’t show him any disrespect. It made me try harder and get better. Kids today are complete punks, offended by everything, and it seems like it’s starting to show in professional sports as well. Harris is top 5 at his position in the NFL, McKenzie can’t even field a darn punt and that’s what he did in college and what he was brought here to do. Shut your pie hole rook and start putting in applications at McDonalds, cause you’ll be out of the league by 2019.
    I worked under a high school head coach who wouldn't let us cuss at or personally berate players or grab their facemasks and scream in their face. At a school with no prior winning tradition in football, we won four district championships in five years including one against the team on which Alan Branch played. We advanced to the state semi-finals twice.

    Our head coach fined us for using profanity, and we weren't allowed to yell at or criticize the officials from the sideline during a game. It was a disciplined environment in which everyone was required to take responsibility for themselves and support their teammates regardless of whether they were starters or not.

    The emphasis was on coaching and teaching and reinforcing positive behavior in a school/academic environment. We had a number of players go to college teams. So, I guess there are different ways of achieving success. When working with teenagers, some balance must be struck without being abusive.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    324
    You may not have shown the man any disrespect, but there is a massive difference between being scared of someone, and respecting them, for example, Josh McDaniels. I believe he had the locker room scared of him, scared to be cut, traded, or embarrassed on national TV by having the little man cuss you out, but as soon as he was gone, you could tell no one respected him, there is a difference.

    Wild generalisations as such aimed at any group of people only lead to a slanted view of that whole group of people, and it affects the interactions and relationships you build in the future. I really don't see what is wrong with a generation that believes everybody should be treated equally, you can be above someone in seniority or position, and still go about performing your job while being respectful.

    Obviously there is a difference between being openly disrespectful when entering a new workplace, and not taking crap and unfair treatment for a boss just because he is older, and has a little bit of power. That is a really quick way to create an unmotivated and non-committed worker, plenty of young people want to work, need to work, and are committed to their jobs, and there are bad eggs from all generations and backgrounds, entitlement is taken on by all generations in different ways.

  7. #37
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecondsAway131 View Post
    I agree with what you're saying. My thoughts are that these are professional players. If you received different types of advice, discuss it. Talk about it with the players, bring it up with the coaches. Hear the why's and the how's of what someone is trying to say, and get clarity if it's needed. There doesn't need to be a "X player is better, so I'm going to listen to him instead of you."

    Furthermore, in your example about Garcia contradicting coaches and other teammates, the right move is to talk to Garcia about it and discuss why you think differently. Maybe Garcia is missing something and needs some help as well. Just choosing to ignore doesn't help anyone, and it isn't particularly what a good teammate would do.

    There are many nuances to the game. What works for one player might not be as helpful to another. Keeping up the discussion between players and coaches is healthy. Dismissing someone because of ego or perceived talent level not only stalls the discussion, but it isolates and divides players. That's not a healthy team dynamic.
    But at the same time say the younger player is telling the vet that this other pro bowl guy told him to do this, now that vet could perceive that is this young guy is mouthing off to him and thinks heís entitled.

    Relationships are important, particularly checking your egos, not just for young players but for everybody. At the end of the day this is a team game and the team must come first to these guys. Everybody is different and itís the leaders/coaches jobs to know everyoneís personality so you know what approach works best. Iím not gonna come screaming at my young emotional junior troop, that isnít going to make that person want to be a better worker. Theyíll likely shut down for awhile and make it harder on everyone.

    This really seems like a new spin on the offfense vs defense bickering that was reported last season.
    Last edited by beastlyskronk; 01-26-2018 at 05:13 PM.

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