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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    He should have been in on the first ballot. He sure as doodoo should have gotten in before Marvin Harrison.

    Voters are only supposed to consider on field performance. They clearly went beyond their scope in delaying his entry.

    You can’t blame T.O. for being who he is. His reaction to being inducted in his third year of eligibility is not a surprise. He should have been in sooner and he knows it and he’s going to be petty about it. Does anyone hate Michael Jordan for his petty Hall of Fame speech?
    In the league history there have been only 5 WR's who've been 1st ballot HOFers: Steve Largent, Lance Alworth, Paul Warfield, Raynmond Berry & Jerry Rice. From a stats perspective the ONLY WR T.O does not beat out is Jerry Rice. So I can see how T.O. should have expected and should feel slighted when he was not included in the elite class of WRs with the likes of Jerry Rice and was not voted in on the 1st Ballot.

    T.O. is human and after just re-watching his A Football Life documentary film a lot of what he did and how he did it has become much clearer to me. Rightly or wrongly it seems that the way he was brought up had A LOT to do with his approach to everything. Things are either Black or White, Right or Wrong, you're either telling the truth or your lying. For example. I bet if you were a teammate and you didn't play well he'd tell you flat out that you didn't play well if you asked him. There would be no 'softening' of the verbiage. Now someone who perhaps was raised 'differently' may have stated "You did alright man but we've got to work hard to correct a few things this week in practice. We all do.". See the latter comment is softer and less direct. It is what most of the fans and the media expect from our "standard" professional athletes. Overtime the average person learns those nuances as they interact with different people in different social situations and in different social settings. Everything I've read so far about T.O. indicates that growing up his socialization with others outside of a school setting were SEVERELY limited or non-existent. Not an excuse but definitely an explanation.

    So yes- T.O. should have been a 1st ballot HOFer. I distinctly remember there being reports that in advance of the 2015/2016 class that character and on and off the field "issues" were to be heavily factored into the voting process. This was rather convenient timing as T.O. was just about to come up and be eligible for the HOF. So I see so many here critique T.O. for what he did and plans to do. How is it that the Hall doesn't have any control over what the criteria is for the voting process? Why and what was the reason for 2016 to suddenly become the year that the HOF wanted to mention character being a criteria? If character is such a huge concern for the hall why not go back and label those players who were problematic and had character issues who are already in the hall?

    If I am T.O. I see what was done as nothing more than a public slight. Also if we can go back and think with level heads here how many of these voters know T.O? Did they know ALL of the facts in the issues he had on multiple teams? - I am nearly 100% confident that the answer to that question is no.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    Peter King once said he would vote a rapist like Darren Sharper into the HoF because he was taught to consider only what the player achieved on the field. However, I disgree with that notion.

    If you go to the HoF website, it says the Hall has:

    1) Mission: Honor the Heroes of the Game; Preserve its History; Promote its Values; Celebrate Excellence everywhere.

    2) Values: Commitment; Integrity; Courage; Respect; Excellence.

    So, I don't see why a player should go into the HoF if he does not carry himself with the necessary respect, integrity and excellence on and off the field.

    I would never put a player like Terrell Owens in the HoF. He was always very confrontational towards his teammates, divided multiple locker rooms. Despite his incredible talent, the 49ers could not stand him anymore. He brought the same bad attitude to the Eagles, taking shots at McNabb. Jeremiah Trotter said he felt like "Dr. Phil" at one point, trying to keep peace between Owens and McNabb. Andy Reid sent Owens home for a week after a flareup.

    Radio host Howard Eskin said he had never seen one player divide a locker room like Terrell Owens. Then, Owens fought teammate Hugh Douglas in the locker room, trading blows. Then, Owens said the Eagles would win more games if they had Brett Favre. Andy Reid, one of the most beloved coaches in the game, suspended Owens for 4 games for conduct detrimental to the team. Despite his incredible talent, the Eagles could not stand him anymore after 2 seasons.

    In Dallas, he started to complain about Romo and Witten's relationship, calling Witten "Romo's BFF". Dale Hansen, who covered the Cowboys, said "whenever Owens was not catching 13 balls for 181 yards, it was someone else's fault. I understand that he had issues in San Francisco and they might not have been his, and I understand that he had issues in Philadelphia and they might not have been his, and I understand he had issues with the Cowboys and they might not have been his. But in my world, if every time you go some place, there is a problem, maybe you're the problem". Despite his incredible talent, after 3 seasons, Jerry Jones could not stand Owens anymore.

    I don't think a notoriously selfish player that divided locker rooms and hurt team chemistry should be in the HoF, simply because he showed no respect and excellence off the field. As much as he helped his teams with catches, he hurt his teams with distractions and drama. McNabb was a 6x Pro Bowler, 37,276 passing yards, helped the Eagles win 5 division titles and played in 5 NFC championship games. Imagine dealing with Terrell Owens if his QBs were Orton and Siemian.
    You brought forward a fair number of the "issues" which have often been referenced throughout Owens career.

    1. T.O vs McNabb- Clearly there was bad blood there but was it really all on T.O? Did we ever see McNabb take the higher road? What franchise QB have you ever heard who never mentioned his WR1 by name in an interview? Do we know if Mcnabb ever tried to smooth things over with his WR1 in T.O?

    2. With regards to Witten & Romo etc. T.O. (and in some respect rightfully so) in 2007 was coming off of a 15 TD 1300+yard season. So if you have a WR who can do that then why would you not continue to scheme for a player who is capable of being THAT productive. T.O. in his last year with DAL still have 10 TDs and just over 1000 yards receiving. SO it is not like he was not productive. To put his 2008 production in perspective T.O scored 24% (10 total) of the teams TD's that year compared to Witten's 4. So I can in some respect understand why T.O was confused why Witten was being coddled and worked with and he wasn't.


    I also think that the word heroes of the game for some (not all) is being interpreted literally. Generally speaking I look at the HOF as being for various eras. If in that era that player needs to be mentioned then they should be in the HOF. in T.O.'s era he was THE BEST statistical WR in the NFL. All-time he is only behind Jerry Rice.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUMCALC View Post
    There are a TON of HOFers who don't fit this criteria, do you want to be the one to remove them?
    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    Peter King once said he would vote a rapist like Darren Sharper into the HoF because he was taught to consider only what the player achieved on the field. However, I disgree with that notion.

    If you go to the HoF website, it says the Hall has:

    1) Mission: Honor the Heroes of the Game; Preserve its History; Promote its Values; Celebrate Excellence everywhere.

    2) Values: Commitment; Integrity; Courage; Respect; Excellence.
    The problem with these values is they are very subjective based on a person's point of view.

    Charles Haley is a great example. He flipped out many times after losing a game. Probably went way overboard and even beyond what TO did more often that once. He threw something in the direction of the owner after one loss because of a holdout/contract dispute. One game he went nuts after a loss and they had to bring someone from the other team's locker room to Haley to settle him down.

    Media members had a lot of horrible things to say about Charles Haley and his attitude.

    Ronnie Lott said Charles Haley just cares a LOT about winning football games and from everything I have seen Ronnie Lott seems to have the utmost respect for Charles Haley.

    The problem with the HoF is too many people vote who are not coaches and not players.
    Chubb was a great pick imo!

  3. #18
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    As I am sure many here have now seen T.O. will NOT be mentioned by the hall due to his decision to no show up. While I complete understand WHY the hall came forward with this I think they made a very large mistake. IMO - they should have shown his highlights and stats and then simply moved on to the next. Rightly or wrongly I believe this decision by the hall lessens their brand and brings themselves down a peg from an optics perspective.


    just saw this video on NFL.com:

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...-recognize-T-O
    Last edited by Rich_C; 07-13-2018 at 11:15 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    As I am sure many here have now seen T.O. will NOT be mentioned by the hall due to his decision to no show up. While I complete understand WHY the hall came forward with this I think they made a very large mistake. IMO - they should have shown his highlights and stats and then simply moved on to the next. Rightly or wrongly I believe this decision by the hall lessens their brand and brings themselves down a peg from an optics perspective.


    just saw this video on NFL.com:

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...-recognize-T-O
    Just listening to Lee Hacksaw Hamilton, and he thinks that what TO and the league are doing is terrible for the game. Yes, TO should be there. Be the bigger man. Take the honour and go with it, no matter what ballot. But Hacksaw says that the "hall" has gone too far, by not even mentioning TO. They too should be the bigger people. This should be a good news story not a standoff.
    Last edited by CanDB; 07-13-2018 at 04:28 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    As I am sure many here have now seen T.O. will NOT be mentioned by the hall due to his decision to no show up. While I complete understand WHY the hall came forward with this I think they made a very large mistake. IMO - they should have shown his highlights and stats and then simply moved on to the next. Rightly or wrongly I believe this decision by the hall lessens their brand and brings themselves down a peg from an optics perspective.


    just saw this video on NFL.com:

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...-recognize-T-O

    I agree... mention he is in the hall this year, show the video highlights they usually do and move on to the next candidate.....
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  6. #21
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    Michael Irvin was a drug user, Ray Lewis was connected to a murder, Randy Moss was a cancer, Brett Favre was addicted to pain killers, Joe Namath and Kenny Stabler were alcoholics, etc. Where do you draw the line?
    Rod Smith for the HOF. TEBOW RULES!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUMCALC View Post
    Michael Irvin was a drug user, Ray Lewis was connected to a murder, Randy Moss was a cancer, Brett Favre was addicted to pain killers, Joe Namath and Kenny Stabler were alcoholics, etc. Where do you draw the line?
    I don't know, but to me, T.O. is on the other side of the line. And you raise a good point in that there should be 'a line'. I think character should play a role in getting into the HoF in addition to on field merits. I would walk across the street to avoid T.O. instead of seeking his autograph.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUMCALC View Post
    Michael Irvin was a drug user, Ray Lewis was connected to a murder, Randy Moss was a cancer, Brett Favre was addicted to pain killers, Joe Namath and Kenny Stabler were alcoholics, etc. Where do you draw the line?
    I will not state that I know that all of this be true, but I find it extremely hard to separate TO from some members. How can you? Unless they are starting new rules as we speak, then this is nice discussion and nothing else. Do I think the rules pertaining to character / values needs to be more adhered to? No doubt. But I also strongly doubt that TO is the worst cat to every enter The Hall.

    Again, I am very tired of his antics, especially the way he is spoiling a wonderful opportunity to showcase his loved ones at the ceremony...and I am equally disappointed in The Hall, for choosing to take the lower path....with zero evidence that he made it. Show a flippin video for heaven sake!!!

  9. #24
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    I don't think that there should be a line. Athletes should be judged by their performance on the field/court, and their off-the-field issues shouldn't count against them. We're all human, right?
    Rod Smith for the HOF. TEBOW RULES!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I will not state that I know that all of this be true, but I find it extremely hard to separate TO from some members. How can you? Unless they are starting new rules as we speak, then this is nice discussion and nothing else. Do I think the rules pertaining to character / values needs to be more adhered to? No doubt. But I also strongly doubt that TO is the worst cat to every enter The Hall.

    Again, I am very tired of his antics, especially the way he is spoiling a wonderful opportunity to showcase his loved ones at the ceremony...and I am equally disappointed in The Hall, for choosing to take the lower path....with zero evidence that he made it. Show a flippin video for heaven sake!!!
    See 8 have to disagree with you. T.O. is having his friends loved ones etc. And will be giving a speech...just not at Canton. So your entitled to your personal opinion on him but if we are going to be critical I believe we need to be balanced and fair about it.

    Also Randy Moss to me is the biggest issue in all of this. He tried to use his car and ran into a parking enforcement officer....yet he sits at #4 all time and ended up a 1s5 ballot HOFer... stupid.

  11. #26
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    I would say randy moss was a better player.... and this whole backlash by TO for not being a first ballot is silly... like really so... it’s a kid having a tantrum because he want picked firsts.... we could come up with a huge list of people that should be and aren’t and are that shouldn’t be in canton..

    TO, be happy you were selected as one of PRo footballs best players and celebrate with your peers...
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    See 8 have to disagree with you. T.O. is having his friends loved ones etc. And will be giving a speech...just not at Canton. So your entitled to your personal opinion on him but if we are going to be critical I believe we need to be balanced and fair about it.

    Also Randy Moss to me is the biggest issue in all of this. He tried to use his car and ran into a parking enforcement officer....yet he sits at #4 all time and ended up a 1s5 ballot HOFer... stupid.
    Balanced and fair....about what? Having a private ceremony is not even close to having a wonderful opportunity in Canton, to be honoured with the very best, and to share that with your loved ones. And why? Because you got into The Hall, but not when you thought you should????

    Very childish. And sad to say, very TO.

    BTW...if you took a poll of the general public, you would probably find that I am not nearly as tough on TO as many others. I merely stated that he and The Hall mishandled this. And "this" should be a big deal for all those in his life. The ceremony is so special, and by turning away from it, is selfish and silly if you ask me.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Balanced and fair....about what? Having a private ceremony is not even close to having a wonderful opportunity in Canton, to be honoured with the very best, and to share that with your loved ones. And why? Because you got into The Hall, but not when you thought you should????

    Very childish. And sad to say, very TO.

    BTW...if you took a poll of the general public, you would probably find that I am not nearly as tough on TO as many others. I merely stated that he and The Hall mishandled this. And "this" should be a big deal for all those in his life. The ceremony is so special, and by turning away from it, is selfish and silly if you ask me.
    Idk I think having it at his college is kind of like coming full circle, ending it all where it began and all that jazz. Granted, that isnít his reasoning behind the decision.

    But I donít think either side is really handling this with much class. I think itíd be cool to have cameras there and basically livestream his speech at the school. But thatís just me

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Balanced and fair....about what? Having a private ceremony is not even close to having a wonderful opportunity in Canton, to be honoured with the very best, and to share that with your loved ones. And why? Because you got into The Hall, but not when you thought you should????

    Very childish. And sad to say, very TO.

    BTW...if you took a poll of the general public, you would probably find that I am not nearly as tough on TO as many others. I merely stated that he and The Hall mishandled this. And "this" should be a big deal for all those in his life. The ceremony is so special, and by turning away from it, is selfish and silly if you ask me.
    It's TO...


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  15. #30
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    I think too much is being made about TO's decision not to go. Why is he obligated to do anything? This is a free country right?

    If I was HoF people I would be like...Oh you do not want to go...ok that is sad. We will make a short clip for you. Then I would not put another moment of thought about this. I would prepare for all the activities of the people showing up and not put another single thought into TO not going...specially not give it any negative thought or any negative attention. Focus on the positives.

    Same thing as a fan...most fans are not sure if they want TO there in the first place...why put a single negative thought behind his decision not to go? Just move on and focus on the people who will be there.


    Really looking forward to what Ray Lewis and Brian Dawkins will say in their moment!!
    Chubb was a great pick imo!

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