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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sendacash View Post
    Exactly, if this organization does not invest in the o-line long term with quality draft picks then I'm sorry but any QB not named Peyton Manning is likely in for a rude awakening.
    This is a bit of a myth, it's not where you draft them, it's the quality of the player and how they're developed. Denver has been burned in recent years by several fairly high picks who turned out to be bad. Likewise their most consistent o-lineman was picked in round 6.

    The best run blocking line last year was New England. The best pass protection line was Pittsburgh.

    New England's line: LT Solder (Round 1), LG Thuney (round 3), C Andrews (undrafted), RG Mason (round 4), RT Fleming (Round 4) Marcus Cannon (5th round) played more snaps, but Fleming started the SB.

    Pittsburgh's line: LT Villanueva (undrafted), LG Foster (undrafted), C Pouncey (1st round), RG DeCastro (1st round) RT Hubbard (undrafted)

    So from the 2 best lines last year, you've got 3 first round picks, 4 undrafted players and a bunch in-between.

    Not where you get them, but how you develop them.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    This is a bit of a myth, it's not where you draft them, it's the quality of the player and how they're developed. Denver has been burned in recent years by several fairly high picks who turned out to be bad. Likewise their most consistent o-lineman was picked in round 6.

    The best run blocking line last year was New England. The best pass protection line was Pittsburgh.

    New England's line: LT Solder (Round 1), LG Thuney (round 3), C Andrews (undrafted), RG Mason (round 4), RT Fleming (Round 4) Marcus Cannon (5th round) played more snaps, but Fleming started the SB.

    Pittsburgh's line: LT Villanueva (undrafted), LG Foster (undrafted), C Pouncey (1st round), RG DeCastro (1st round) RT Hubbard (undrafted)

    So from the 2 best lines last year, you've got 3 first round picks, 4 undrafted players and a bunch in-between.

    Not where you get them, but how you develop them.
    Not so fast my friend, Tom Brady and Big Ben can mask a lot of o-line deficiencies. When we had Manning it was a different story, but stuck with a bottom tier QB purgatory, well in that case is starts to make a big difference.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by sendacash View Post
    Not so fast my friend, Tom Brady and Big Ben can mask a lot of o-line deficiencies. When we had Manning it was a different story, but stuck with a bottom tier QB purgatory, well in that case is starts to make a big difference.
    The logic of that is that getting a first rate quarterback is by far the most important thing for an offense. Of course, that's always been the case.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by sendacash View Post
    Not so fast my friend, Tom Brady and Big Ben can mask a lot of o-line deficiencies. When we had Manning it was a different story, but stuck with a bottom tier QB purgatory, well in that case is starts to make a big difference.
    True, but as RobertR points out, a top QB always masks a weaker o-line. Case Keenum faced the second most pressure in the league last year and had the highest QB rating while under pressure. If he can mask things a little bit, and the changes in personnel improve it a little bit, it should help greatly.

    It'll also help greatly not to have a QB taking a 17 step drop and undoing what the tackles have done in running an opponent up the field.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    True, but as RobertR points out, a top QB always masks a weaker o-line. Case Keenum faced the second most pressure in the league last year and had the highest QB rating while under pressure. If he can mask things a little bit, and the changes in personnel improve it a little bit, it should help greatly.

    It'll also help greatly not to have a QB taking a 17 step drop and undoing what the tackles have done in running an opponent up the field.
    I cringe a little when you compare to the Vikings as I think that is a top notch team with one of the best coaches in the NFL. Again this is apples to oranges.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by sendacash View Post
    I cringe a little when you compare to the Vikings as I think that is a top notch team with one of the best coaches in the NFL. Again this is apples to oranges.
    Their o-line is completely overrated. And their skill position players just kind of developed with him. They played a weak division (faced Green Bay without Rodgers for 7 quarters), and they played the AFC North which was 1 good team and 3 awful teams.

    The Vikings are good, but they had a lot go their way last year. I don't know that they're as good as their record indicated.

  7. #82
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    We saw the real keenum in the Philly game.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by sendacash View Post
    I cringe a little when you compare to the Vikings as I think that is a top notch team with one of the best coaches in the NFL. Again this is apples to oranges.
    How is it apples and oranges? Canít stand that saying btw. You can definitely compare fruit. But, youíre comparing Olines. Neither were good last year. Good comparison. He didnít say the broncos and Vikings were comparable.

  9. #84
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    Vikings o line is patchwork starting this year just like they finished last year. When their dbs starting going down like their o lineman, it was just a matter of time

    Their d seems top notch when healthy. We will see what their offense is like with cousins and without shurmer
    Last edited by armedequation; 08-17-2018 at 04:16 PM.
    Glen Haven Fire

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by worldsoutro View Post
    We saw the real keenum in the Philly game.
    Why that game? Why is one game the one we saw the real Keenum? Anytime a good player has a bad game, is that the ďrealĒ said player? What makes you decide which game is the real one? Why canít his play on average be the real Keenum?

  11. #86
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    Look, I'm just saying that Kelly will be the Broncos QB long term baby. I don't believe in Lynch, nor Keenum, nor Joseph.

  12. #87
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    Some players have a super 'it' factor, Keenum isn't one of them. On a Trevor Siemian scale, he's Siemian after six years in the NFL and multiple teams.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by sendacash View Post
    Look, I'm just saying that Kelly will be the Broncos QB long term baby. I don't believe in Lynch, nor Keenum, nor Joseph.
    So what does your crystal ball say about who I should bet on?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
    So what does your crystal ball say about who I should bet on?
    Yourself :thumbsup:
    Glen Haven Fire

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
    So what does your crystal ball say about who I should bet on?
    I would prob take the Broncos with Paxton getting the late TD for the cover.

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