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  1. #1426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spice 1 View Post
    This is how I feel about it. I think all Kelly did was give Elway an excuse to get rid of Keenum's competition. I could be partly wrong about that, but Idt I'm completely off track there. I'm not saying what Kelly did wasn't a fireable offense either. That's where the excuse part comes in. I expect Keenum to be our QB next season, regardless of any bargain bin FA or rookie they bring in. They'll sell a coaching staff change to the fans.

    I do wonder how they'll proceed with scouting next years quarterbacks. Elway tried the big QB twice. One was groomed under Manning, and the other was given three offseasons to convince them that he was a starter. I hope they remove "tall" as a qualifier, and "long term project" from the equation for at least the first 3 rounds. I don't want to see us draft a quarterback for the sake of doing so, but I really don't want to see us making the same scouting mistakes we've made in the past. I've never been an advocate of trading up for a quarterback, but the success rate seems to have gone up recently. I guess I wouldn't be against it if the quarterback they really like is there, whether that be at the top of the first or later. On the subject of scouting, I think it will be important to look at the similarities between Osweiler and Lynch, and remove any emphasis on those measurements. Not saying write a guy off just because he has things in common with them, just make sure you aren't giving him bonus points for it. Unless you just think you have back luck, and you're willing to stake your job on it working next time. Kind of hard to explain doing the same things with a low success rate to your boss, though.
    Elway got his teams to the big dance twice recently...

    VJ is a dud as it turns out, who's to say a new coach and scheme doesn't turn CK into a TD machine. We have talent, the bye week may be just what the passing game needed and with Royce and hopefully Stewart back we might be surprised.
    [

  2. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    You're cherry picking. Denver ranks 23rd in the league in converting 3rd downs, 26th in time of possession, 17th in first downs per game, 18th in TDS, 22nd in RZ attempts per game, 19th in PPG, 25th in passing first downs per game, 19th in YPA, 25th in average QB rating.

    By comparison, the running game ranks 20th in rush attemps (bad bad bad coaching and heres why), yet ranks 8th in the league in yards per game, TDs per game, rushing first downs per game.

    You rank 20th in the league for attempts but still are in the top 10 in most critical stats running the ball.

    My point is this. This offense does not stay on the field and does not score in the passing game. We throw nearly 62% of the time, rush a little over 38%.

    TWENTY SIXTH IN TIME OF POSSESSION.

    26.

    Even the year after the SB when most of the defense was still intact, still ended up 28th in the league in rushing yards a game from the opponent. You can have an amazing D but if your offense cant stay on the field and move the ball your defense is going to be dead in the water.
    I'll find some time to find some meaningful stats for you.

    3rd and long [8 and longer], which is a difficult situation for a QB.

    http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/l...e=NFL&rank=047

    Keenum had 36 situations; only 4 QBs had had more.

    And still, Keenum ranks 10th in efficiency.

    ............

    TOP at 29.19 vs 30.41 is negligible.

    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...sion-net-of-ot

    Especially when considering the Defense had allowed some long drive to start a game or the second half.
    (Meaning they were hardly gassed by the ineptitude of the offense.)

    ......

    Some of the other stats are not very meaningful.
    The offensive points scoring stats is.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/247spor...121722415/Amp/

    And the Broncos are at 17th, but without any overtime.
    As I had said, without OT, the Broncos and the Texans are basically tied in that regard, which would bump it up a notch for Denver.

    The Niners also had 2 OT games.
    Without those, they are below the Broncos.

    So 15th, which is just below average.

    However, as I had stated, the Broncos had faced better defensive teams than the average of the league.
    I haven't looked deep into it, and it's not a simple thing to do.
    But surely, it would make the Broncos better than average in that regard (offensive points scored).

    Then, if you take into account that the Broncos also have fewer problems with fumbles returned for a TD, pick-sixes, and safeties allowed, it becomes even better.

    Maybe not top ten, but not that far off.

    And that's totally within expectation before the season started, under the premise of a mediocre offense, and that the D would carry the team more this year.

  3. #1428
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
    There is reason why the Texans and Rams and Vikings moved on from Case just saying!
    It's because he does not throw many touchdowns and has a weak arm. In other words, he's a very limited QB, which makes him a backup. Even in his magic season with the Vikings, Keenum threw 22 touchdowns. Kirk Cousins already has 17 in 9 games, on pace to throw 30 touchdowns and rewrite the team records. The Vikings knew what they were doing. On the other hand, our season is over and we'll need a new starting QB next year. Keenum is especially bad for a team like the Broncos that don't have a comfortable dome to help a QB with deficient arm talent.
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=349348&dateline=13355  71607

  4. #1429
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18Broncos View Post
    I'll find some time to find some meaningful stats for you.

    3rd and long [8 and longer], which is a difficult situation for a QB.

    http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/l...e=NFL&rank=047

    Keenum had 36 situations; only 4 QBs had had more.

    And still, Keenum ranks 10th in efficiency.

    ............

    TOP at 29.19 vs 30.41 is negligible.

    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...sion-net-of-ot

    Especially when considering the Defense had allowed some long drive to start a game or the second half.
    (Meaning they were hardly gassed by the ineptitude of the offense.)

    ......

    Some of the other stats are not very meaningful.
    The offensive points scoring stats is.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/247spor...121722415/Amp/

    And the Broncos are at 17th, but without any overtime.
    As I had said, without OT, the Broncos and the Texans are basically tied in that regard, which would bump it up a notch for Denver.

    The Niners also had 2 OT games.
    Without those, they are below the Broncos.

    So 15th, which is just below average.

    However, as I had stated, the Broncos had faced better defensive teams than the average of the league.
    I haven't looked deep into it, and it's not a simple thing to do.
    But surely, it would make the Broncos better than average in that regard (offensive points scored).

    Then, if you take into account that the Broncos also have fewer problems with fumbles returned for a TD, pick-sixes, and safeties allowed, it becomes even better.

    Maybe not top ten, but not that far off.

    And that's totally within expectation before the season started, under the premise of a mediocre offense, and that the D would carry the team more this year.
    I dont know where you're getting your stats from but

    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...sion-net-of-ot

    but the 18 Denver Broncos are 26th in TOP, only better than the Giants, Jags, Colts, Bungles, Dolphins and Cards. Denver is among one of the worst teams in the league at possessing the ball.

    Yes, Case has had more opportunities for a 3rd and 8. Who do you think got him into those situations? Also, wanna see something hilarious? Go look at his split stats for leading a game with less than 4 and 2 mins to go. (hint, all zeros except for lost yardage)


    He's not bad, not Chris Simms or Trevor Siemian bad. But hes not good either.

    Hooray, beer!

  5. #1430
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    I dont know where you're getting your stats from but

    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...sion-net-of-ot

    but the 18 Denver Broncos are 26th in TOP, only better than the Giants, Jags, Colts, Bungles, Dolphins and Cards. Denver is among one of the worst teams in the league at possessing the ball.

    Yes, Case has had more opportunities for a 3rd and 8. Who do you think got him into those situations? Also, wanna see something hilarious? Go look at his split stats for leading a game with less than 4 and 2 mins to go. (hint, all zeros except for lost yardage)


    He's not bad, not Chris Simms or Trevor Siemian bad. But hes not good either.
    And, should not be anywhere near a starting job in the NFL. Arena league or CFL...sure but not the big leagues


    Andy Jano 2017 adopted Bronco

  6. #1431
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    I gotta give him some credit, he is pretty smart!
    He got a 2 year, 36 million dollar deal, with 25 mill. guaranteed!!!!
    (He is totally Rich)

  7. #1432
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    I dont know where you're getting your stats from but

    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...sion-net-of-ot

    but the 18 Denver Broncos are 26th in TOP, only better than the Giants, Jags, Colts, Bungles, Dolphins and Cards. Denver is among one of the worst teams in the league at possessing the ball.

    Yes, Case has had more opportunities for a 3rd and 8. Who do you think got him into those situations? Also, wanna see something hilarious? Go look at his split stats for leading a game with less than 4 and 2 mins to go. (hint, all zeros except for lost yardage)


    He's not bad, not Chris Simms or Trevor Siemian bad. But hes not good either.
    Same place you got the stats.

    The Broncos average 29 minutes and 19 seconds in TOP.
    Yes, it's 26th.
    But as I had said, 29:19 compared to 30.41 for the opponents.
    That's only a 41-second difference.

    ................

    Here are the real kickers:
    Spending dollar on the offense: $51.5M (32nd) - the lowest in the league. (Granted, DT's number was taken off the book
    Spending dollar on the defense: $85.5 (4th most).

    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offense/#

    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/defense/

    Even if you add back the $14M for DT, that would be just $65M total, or 21st in the league.

    Do the Broncos have a 4th ranked defense? That is the key question.

  8. #1433
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post

    Yes, Case has had more opportunities for a 3rd and 8. Who do you think got him into those situations?
    .
    No. 1 in the league in Offensive Holding Penalties.
    http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/...ding?year=2018

  9. #1434
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    It's because he does not throw many touchdowns and has a weak arm. In other words, he's a very limited QB, which makes him a backup. Even in his magic season with the Vikings, Keenum threw 22 touchdowns. Kirk Cousins already has 17 in 9 games, on pace to throw 30 touchdowns and rewrite the team records. The Vikings knew what they were doing. On the other hand, our season is over and we'll need a new starting QB next year. Keenum is especially bad for a team like the Broncos that don't have a comfortable dome to help a QB with deficient arm talent.
    It is easy to fantasize about what Kirk Cousins might have been able to do if he had signed here, if we were even on the radar. We lead the league in production lost to offensive penalties,there would have been less money to pay for talent, Washington does not seem to miss him, and Vikings win less than they did with Keenum. We have also had to play the 2 strongest teams in the NFL a total of 3 times, so from a strength of schedule aspects, I am not sure that Case deserves all the blame, because there are a lot of holes in our team performance - both effort and skill.

    Keenum's arm strength is superior to what Manning had while in Denver. It is easy to single out Keenum, but there is significant blame to go around.

    What I keep circling back to is that Keenum does not seem to short easy options to get out of pressure, and neither did Trevor last year. It just seems like out offensive play calling does not seem to make any QB efficient.

  10. #1435
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    It is easy to fantasize about what Kirk Cousins might have been able to do if he had signed here, if we were even on the radar. We lead the league in production lost to offensive penalties,there would have been less money to pay for talent, Washington does not seem to miss him, and Vikings win less than they did with Keenum. We have also had to play the 2 strongest teams in the NFL a total of 3 times, so from a strength of schedule aspects, I am not sure that Case deserves all the blame, because there are a lot of holes in our team performance - both effort and skill.

    Keenum's arm strength is superior to what Manning had while in Denver. It is easy to single out Keenum, but there is significant blame to go around.

    What I keep circling back to is that Keenum does not seem to short easy options to get out of pressure, and neither did Trevor last year. It just seems like out offensive play calling does not seem to make any QB efficient.
    Manning had a brilliant mind to overcome physical limitations, Keenum...not so much.


  11. #1436
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    Mar 2017
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    Lets Just Face The Facts Case is just a Good Back QB not a Franchise QB.

  12. #1437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Manning had a brilliant mind to overcome physical limitations, Keenum...not so much.
    C'mon Freyaka, I agree Musgrave is horrible, but I find it hard to believe a NFL QB doesn't have "hot" reads. I see RBs swinging out to the flats all the time and don't get the pass, while Case holds onto the ball making the wrong read. Except for the this past week when he went to Lindsay late in the flats and got him destroyed. Case is just no more than a back up QB, slightly better than Trevor. 9 games into the season, he has not one signature game in my opinion. We destroyed Arizona and he threw for for 161 and 1 TD????? Elway and these backup QBs must be stopped.

  13. #1438
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    Quote Originally Posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    C'mon Freyaka, I agree Musgrave is horrible, but I find it hard to believe a NFL QB doesn't have "hot" reads. I see RBs swinging out to the flats all the time and don't get the pass, while Case holds onto the ball making the wrong read. Except for the this past week when he went to Lindsay late in the flats and got him destroyed. Case is just no more than a back up QB, slightly better than Trevor. 9 games into the season, he has not one signature game in my opinion. We destroyed Arizona and he threw for for 161 and 1 TD????? Elway and these backup QBs must be stopped.
    Don't forget in that blowout win against the Cardinals, of those 161 yards, 60 plus of them came on a touchdown pass to a wide open as can be Emmanuel Sanders. Even in our one dominant win this year, Case had very little to do with it, it was more just a matter of him not hurting the team with his poor play. Imagine putting up 45 points and your quarterback throws for 161 yards, with 60 plus of them coming on 1 play, talk about along for the ride.

  14. #1439
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    Nov 2006
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    could we really win now with Aaron Rodgers? ReaLLY?

  15. #1440
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    Quote Originally Posted by rst08tierney View Post
    could we really win now with Aaron Rodgers? ReaLLY?
    We be undefeated or darn close to it with Rodgers.


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