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  1. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    I dont know where you're getting your stats from but

    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...sion-net-of-ot

    but the 18 Denver Broncos are 26th in TOP, only better than the Giants, Jags, Colts, Bungles, Dolphins and Cards. Denver is among one of the worst teams in the league at possessing the ball.

    Yes, Case has had more opportunities for a 3rd and 8. Who do you think got him into those situations? Also, wanna see something hilarious? Go look at his split stats for leading a game with less than 4 and 2 mins to go. (hint, all zeros except for lost yardage)


    He's not bad, not Chris Simms or Trevor Siemian bad. But hes not good either.
    Besides the penalties, the drops is another contributing factor.

    The Broncos are 4th worse in this category.
    http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders...e=NFL&rank=232

  2. #1472
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18Broncos View Post
    Cousins' fumbling problems had directly cost the Vikings a game and was a major factor in two other losses.

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.espn....3fplatform=amp

    And I'm not talking about getting blindly, not knowing that the pass rushers were there.
    He just wasn't protecting the ball carefully.
    He has fumbled 8 times to Keenum's 6. A discrepancy that small is made up for in every other facet, with Cousins being superior to Keenum.

  3. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    He has fumbled 8 times to Keenum's 6. A discrepancy that small is made up for in every other facet, with Cousins being superior to Keenum.
    Nope.
    Turnover that lead directly to a score for an opponent (like a pick-six) or field position inside the RZ or just outside of it (automatic FG) are of a different kind.

    Those are huge, not a small discrepancy.

    Had Keenum thrown a pick-six, he would have been roasted to death here.
    I

  4. #1474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Ah yes the same argument made by staunch Tebow supporters that we were no better off with Manning since we lost first round in the playoffs and won a game with Tim.

    I don't think that's s good argument to make. I'm not upset we didn't go after Cousins at all, I never wanted him, but he is still significantly better than Keenum.
    No, with all due respect the arguments for a young QB gaining more experience thus presumably getting better and an older one at the end of his career presumably trending downwards are much different.

    The thing with Smith/Cousins is that Cousins has put up impressive individual stats that have not translated into the W/L column, and that in part is the same that we saw with Kyle Orton and Jay Cutler. Alex Smith through the last 6-7 years has been much like Jake Plummer with us - never really a stat monster but hardly ever to far from victory at the end and with sky high win rates.

    Cousins comes out and goes toe to toe with top teams like Jay Cutler, and his record is still close to 50/50, like Case and Jay. Alex Smith is around 65/35 and much better in the last 6-7 years.

    In the end the different passer/QBR stats that so many seem to think matter more than actual achievements in terms of W/L, do not measure whether the QB throws a pick 6 or an interception on a hail Mary at the end of regulation, it does not measure whether you are down by 40 points and the defense only care about running out the clock.

    In the end Kirk Cousins salary would hamstring the rest of the team and he does not seem to be the positive difference maker. Lets just hope that some how we figure out how to make Keenum better, or that Elway will learn how to find a QB that will win enough games for us.

  5. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    No, with all due respect the arguments for a young QB gaining more experience thus presumably getting better and an older one at the end of his career presumably trending downwards are much different.

    The thing with Smith/Cousins is that Cousins has put up impressive individual stats that have not translated into the W/L column, and that in part is the same that we saw with Kyle Orton and Jay Cutler. Alex Smith through the last 6-7 years has been much like Jake Plummer with us - never really a stat monster but hardly ever to far from victory at the end and with sky high win rates.

    Cousins comes out and goes toe to toe with top teams like Jay Cutler, and his record is still close to 50/50, like Case and Jay. Alex Smith is around 65/35 and much better in the last 6-7 years.

    In the end the different passer/QBR stats that so many seem to think matter more than actual achievements in terms of W/L, do not measure whether the QB throws a pick 6 or an interception on a hail Mary at the end of regulation, it does not measure whether you are down by 40 points and the defense only care about running out the clock.

    In the end Kirk Cousins salary would hamstring the rest of the team and he does not seem to be the positive difference maker. Lets just hope that some how we figure out how to make Keenum better, or that Elway will learn how to find a QB that will win enough games for us.
    That's all good and great. I mean, I guess you're saying that Smith makes Washington's running game and defense better, which I guess I could entertain just for kicks. Maybe give me something like, he checks to better run plays, or takes better care of the football in the first quarter or something. That's fine. What I don't get though, is why are you comparing Kirk Cousins to Jay Cutler? 'Cause I'm allowed to compare Alex Smith to Trent Dilfer then, right?

  6. #1476
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    Are people seriously trying to say Keenum is better than Cousins??

    I know there's this thing called "orange tinted glasses", but seriously, those glasses gotta be tinted so bright orange they can be seen from the moon.

  7. #1477
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    Dec 2015
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    Keenum would look great....on the bench. Not going anywhere with him at the QB position, plain and simple. It was a mistake signing him, and a mistake keeping Joseph. Until those two errors are corrected, we will be stuck in the mud.

  8. #1478
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    In the end Kirk Cousins salary would hamstring the rest of the team and he does not seem to be the positive difference maker. Lets just hope that some how we figure out how to make Keenum better, or that Elway will learn how to find a QB that will win enough games for us.
    Keenum's cap hit next year is $21 million while Cousins is $29 million, that's an $8 million difference.

    The Broncos currently have an estamated $52 million in cap space (according to overthecap) next year with Keenum's contract. If they had Cousins instead, they would still have $44 million in cap space next year. That's not even counting possible cuts like Stewart and Marshall to free up more space if needed.

    So, how exactly would Cousins contract hamstring the rest of team?

    Keep in mind that having Cousins would mean half the INTs with more TDs, sounds like a good trade off for just $8 million more.

  9. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Keenum's cap hit next year is $21 million while Cousins is $29 million, that's an $8 million difference.

    The Broncos currently have an estamated $52 million in cap space (according to overthecap) next year with Keenum's contract. If they had Cousins instead, they would still have $44 million in cap space next year. That's not even counting possible cuts like Stewart and Marshall to free up more space if needed.

    So, how exactly would Cousins contract hamstring the rest of team?

    Keep in mind that having Cousins would mean half the INTs with more TDs, sounds like a good trade off for just $8 million more.
    In the end it boils down to whether the QB helps you win games or not!

    Keenum and Cousins are rated the same in Minnesota by Pro-Football-Reference advanced stats.
    The basis of success in the playoffs is that your team can string victories together, as it takes 3 or 4 straight wins in the playoffs to win the SB. A team that win 6, loose 6, win 6..... will win a SB in a few years. One that win 2, loose 1, win 2.... will never win anything.

    Cousins is just not that QB that consistently win strings of games, and that is the job! It is not passing stats but to do just enough to win week after week, and step up your game when it is needed. The current failure of Keenum looks exactly like the failure of Orton - most weeks we almost win. What Elway, Plummer & Tebow did was almost loose every week. Manning (and Montana) was like a race horse - get to the front and stay there. The Elway's, Rothlisberger's, Brady's are the types that if your down you shy away from nothing to attempt to get back and though we saw some awful failures from Elway, we also saw incredible highs.

    Cousins is a top dollar better than average QB - he is neither the one that takes the team to the next level nor the one that tanks it.

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