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  1. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post


    The Paxton Lynch experiment should tell us all we need to know about developing QBs on the bench.
    Or the Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes experiment shows the benefit of letting a player learn. No sense in cherry picking. Paxton Lynch didn't care to learn or be good at football. It's most important that the Broncos select the right guy this time around.

    Keenum is improving. He is not the long term answer by any means but hoping that another Free Agent will come in and save the franchise is a tired strategy.

  2. #1382
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    Quote Originally Posted by JW7 View Post
    Or the Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes experiment shows the benefit of letting a player learn.
    Do you really think Aaron Rodgers needed to sit for 3 seasons?

    Do you think Mahomes would not be playing at a high level if he were a starter since his rookie year? I think we're lucky this is his first season as a starter, or he probably would be playing even better today with more game experience.

    Those who can play just do that and get better with more experience. I doubt any QB gets better by sitting on a bench without knowing what it's like when the bullets are flying in that pocket.

    Elway himself changed his mind this year and said that, if he goes young at QB again, he'd rather let the QB play early.
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  3. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    Do you really think Aaron Rodgers needed to sit for 3 seasons?

    Do you think Mahomes would not be playing at a high level if he were a starter since his rookie year? I think we're lucky this is his first season as a starter, or he probably would be playing even better today with more game experience.

    Those who can play just do that and get better with more experience. I doubt any QB gets better by sitting on a bench without knowing what it's like when the bullets are flying in that pocket.

    Elway himself changed his mind this year and said that, if he goes young at QB again, he'd rather let the QB play early.
    There is no way to prove it either way, so I don't understand the point of debating it. I am not opposed at all by drafting a QB and letting him take over during his first year. I just think that keeping Keenum next year is in the best interest of the team. Cutting him loose and starting a rookie QB will be conceding the season from the start. Keep a familiar veteran in the QB room who can help with the development of the rookie.

  4. #1384
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    I hate to be pessimistic, but the actions of our front office has made me believe we're going down the same road with Keenum as we did with Siemian. Many of us knew Trevor wasn't the guy and wouldn't make it, but many hoped he'd progress and the defense would get us through until he developed. Only he never did, turned the ball over and caused the defense to struggle trying to make up for the offense. Eventually, they even turned on the offense. Minus the salaries, I see the same situation with Keenum. He has no competition at QB (and we shouldn't have been surprised MGK did something stupid and got cut) , and at this point in the season, we're stuck with him. I could see a bogus "QB competition" being named for next season, with Case being named the starter and we're in the same boat next year......just like with Siemian. I hope I'm wrong.

  5. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    Do you really think Aaron Rodgers needed to sit for 3 seasons?

    Do you think Mahomes would not be playing at a high level if he were a starter since his rookie year? I think we're lucky this is his first season as a starter, or he probably would be playing even better today with more game experience.

    Those who can play just do that and get better with more experience. I doubt any QB gets better by sitting on a bench without knowing what it's like when the bullets are flying in that pocket.

    Elway himself changed his mind this year and said that, if he goes young at QB again, he'd rather let the QB play early.
    I have to agree with this sentiment.

    People forget that after Rodgers’ first year as the starter, people were speculating that he was the third best quarterback on the Packers’ roster behind Brian Brohm and Matt Flynn.

    It’s the game experience that develops the true franchise quarterbacks. Even Rodgers struggled to impress people in his first year as the starter.
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I won’t Back Down.

  6. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by JW7 View Post
    Or the Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes experiment shows the benefit of letting a player learn. No sense in cherry picking. Paxton Lynch didn't care to learn or be good at football. It's most important that the Broncos select the right guy this time around.

    Keenum is improving. He is not the long term answer by any means but hoping that another Free Agent will come in and save the franchise is a tired strategy.
    Every situation is different. Some people might need more time than others. Some might not need anytime at all. There is no way to prove that a player actually benefited from one or the other. There is no way to go back and do a proper experiment by testing both methods with the same player. People like to compare scenarios, but forget that each individual is different. There are far too many variables to come to a single generality of what is right.

  7. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksubroncosfan View Post
    Every situation is different. Some people might need more time than others. Some might not need anytime at all. There is no way to prove that a player actually benefited from one or the other. There is no way to go back and do a proper experiment by testing both methods with the same player. People like to compare scenarios, but forget that each individual is different. There are far too many variables to come to a single generality of what is right.
    Yes, I agree.

  8. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    I hate to be pessimistic, but the actions of our front office has made me believe we're going down the same road with Keenum as we did with Siemian. Many of us knew Trevor wasn't the guy and wouldn't make it, but many hoped he'd progress and the defense would get us through until he developed. Only he never did, turned the ball over and caused the defense to struggle trying to make up for the offense. Eventually, they even turned on the offense. Minus the salaries, I see the same situation with Keenum. He has no competition at QB (and we shouldn't have been surprised MGK did something stupid and got cut) , and at this point in the season, we're stuck with him. I could see a bogus "QB competition" being named for next season, with Case being named the starter and we're in the same boat next year......just like with Siemian. I hope I'm wrong.
    Do you recall this time of the year last year?
    The Broncos were losing by double digits week after week.
    Some games were over by halftime.
    This team is much different with Keenum under center.

    Some people just like to harp on the Ints, but they simply disregard that the 3-Int game resulted in a win.
    If only the D had returned to top 10, top 5, the results would have been much different.

    Losing Alib was huge; not to.mention Von isn't 100% this year.

    Darnold is 11-14 in TD/Int so far.
    He would have been 8-13 without the Broncos game.
    The Broncos gave up 323 yards on the ground against an average running team at best in the Jets.

    And don't even start on the coaching.

    Those right there are the big problems.
    And you're trying to solve a minor problem?

    How about the blocking?
    It's not just the O-line.
    The TEs and the backs were giving up pressures and sacks as well.
    They need better coaching and a better blocking scheme.

  9. #1389
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18Broncos View Post
    Do you recall this time of the year last year?
    The Broncos were losing by double digits week after week.
    Some games were over by halftime.
    This team is much different with Keenum under center.

    Some people just like to harp on the Ints, but they simply disregard that the 3-Int game resulted in a win.
    If only the D had returned to top 10, top 5, the results would have been much different.

    Losing Alib was huge; not to.mention Von isn't 100% this year.

    Darnold is 11-14 in TD/Int so far.
    He would have been 8-13 without the Broncos game.
    The Broncos gave up 323 yards on the ground against an average running team at best in the Jets.

    And don't even start on the coaching.

    Those right there are the big problems.
    And you're trying to solve a minor problem?

    How about the blocking?
    It's not just the O-line.
    The TEs and the backs were giving up pressures and sacks as well.
    They need better coaching and a better blocking scheme.
    Losing by double digits and consistenly losing games late hurt about the same to me. Many are saying this year is worse. I'd be fine with the INTs, if they came with more TDs. He seems gunshy and afraid of throwing INTs sometimes. The TD to Heuerman was gutsy and taking a chance. If those were the plays he gets INTs on, it wouldn't be so bad to me. He threw a INT on 1st DOWN, on a flee flicker....I don't think I've ever seen a 10 yard pass on a flee flicker. It's either a check down in the flats or a bomb. Let's not bring up the badly overthrown pass to DT that very likely beats the Chiefs.

    I'm not saying Keenum is soley the reason we're struggling. I'm saying the OP and many others were way too optimstic on Keenum. Becuase he lit it up in college and had a great year last year didn't mean he'd work in Denver. Coaching and the O line have been horrible. I didn't expect Case to be Drew Brees or lift the team like Peyton did when he got here, but he's been very disappointing, even for a game manager that I hoped he could be. Through 9 games and he doesn't have 1 good game in my opinion. Not even a blowout vs the Cardinals. He threw 3 TDs and got the win vs Seattle, but he threw 3 INTs and 2 of them were horrible.

    With no competition and a front office that likely wont spend on another QB, we may see ourselves with Case starting again next year.
    Last edited by champ&dreallday; 11-07-2018 at 11:53 AM.

  10. #1390
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    Quote Originally Posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    Losing by double digits and consistenly losing games late hurt about the same to me. Many are saying this year is worse. I'd be fine with the INTs, if they came with more TDs. He seems gunshy and afraid of throwing INTs sometimes. The TD to Heuerman was gutsy and taking a chance. If those were the plays he gets INTs on, it wouldn't be so bad to me. He threw a INT on 1st DOWN, on a flee flicker....I don't think I've ever seen a 10 yard pass on a flee flicker. It's either a check down in the flats or a bomb. Let's not bring up the badly overthrown pass to DT that very likely beats the Chiefs.

    I'm not saying Keenum is soley the reason we're struggling. I'm saying the OP and many others were way too optimstic on Keenum. Becuase he lit it up in college and had a great year last year didn't mean he'd work in Denver. Coaching and the O line have been horrible. I didn't expect Case to be Drew Brees or lift the team like Peyton did when he got here, but he's been very disappointing, even for a game manager that I hoped he could be. Through 9 games and he doesn't have 1 good game in my opinion. Not even a blowout vs the Cardinals. He threw 3 TDs and got the win vs Seattle, but he threw 3 INTs and 2 of them were horrible.

    With no competition and a front office that likely wont spend on another QB, we may see ourselves with Case starting again next year.
    LOL, I knew the title of the thread is bad Karma.
    And Harris' "prediction" of a 30-pt scoring.average.

    Why would people want to put the cart in front.of the horse?

    It's foolish.

    In my thinking when the Broncos signed Manning, they were able to put together a complete team.
    They have a window of 3-4 years before he hang it up , along with Ware and Welker.
    It will be hard to keep all the young guys like JT and Decker while the talented offensive line was getting up there in age.

    Too many voids to fill, and the poor draft(s) and injuries didn't help. The misses on Osweiler and Lynch were big.

    It's unrealistic to think this roster has enough talent to be a real contender even just in the AFC West.

  11. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18Broncos View Post

    It's unrealistic to think this roster has enough talent to be a real contender even just in the AFC West.
    I'm gonna call bull crap on that thought...We kept the Chiefs and Rams (two of the best teams in the league) to within a single score (chiefs twice) We also were two stupid coaching decisions away from a win against a hot Texans team... We have more than enough talent on offense and defense. We are currently being held back by poor coaching and our QB situation. The QB situation isn't nearly as bad as the coaching situation and we could probably make due with the poor QB situation if we had better coaches (though as soon as an upgrade is available, we need to take it at QB)

    We could very easily be a playoff contending team with a more competent head coach.

    We're a 12-4 team with a 4-12 head coach...


  12. #1392
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    Quote Originally Posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    I hate to be pessimistic, but the actions of our front office has made me believe we're going down the same road with Keenum as we did with Siemian. Many of us knew Trevor wasn't the guy and wouldn't make it, but many hoped he'd progress and the defense would get us through until he developed. Only he never did, turned the ball over and caused the defense to struggle trying to make up for the offense. Eventually, they even turned on the offense. Minus the salaries, I see the same situation with Keenum. He has no competition at QB (and we shouldn't have been surprised MGK did something stupid and got cut) , and at this point in the season, we're stuck with him. I could see a bogus "QB competition" being named for next season, with Case being named the starter and we're in the same boat next year......just like with Siemian. I hope I'm wrong.
    You’re just being realistic.The only player of note Elway could replace Keenum with is Bridgewater and I think there is as much chance of Elway signing him as there is signing Kaepernick.

  13. #1393
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18Broncos View Post
    It's unrealistic to think this roster has enough talent to be a real contender even just in the AFC West.
    No, it's not. We are #8 in rushing yards, #1 in yards per carry, Lindsay leads all rookies in rushing. The defense is #9 against the pass, #2 in sacks, Miller and Chubb are one of the top pass-rushing duos in the league. A team that can run the ball and put pressure on QBs can go a long way. The problem is that we have mediocre QB play averaging only 1.2 passing touchdowns per game, with a passer rating comparable to Blake Bortles and C.J. Beathard, and an incompetent head coach managing games like a chicken with the head cut off.

    We are losing close games, by less than a touchdown, against some of the best teams in the league despite the poor performance at QB and head coach.
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  14. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    No, it's not. We are #8 in rushing yards, #1 in yards per carry, Lindsay leads all rookies in rushing. The defense is #9 against the pass, #2 in sacks, Miller and Chubb are one of the top pass-rushing duos in the league. A team that can run the ball and put pressure on QBs can go a long way. The problem is that we have mediocre QB play averaging only 1.2 passing touchdowns per game, with a passer rating comparable to Blake Bortles and C.J. Beathard, and an incompetent head coach managing games like a chicken with the head cut off.

    We are losing close games, by less than a touchdown, against some of the best teams in the league despite the poor performance at QB and head coach.
    The most important thing is 23.7 ppg given up.
    That's 16th in the league while this team is built on the D. The money. The draft resource.
    The D has NOT carried it's own weight.

    The Texans are a similar team, built on the D.

    The Broncos have 22 TDs and 13 FGs on offense.
    The Texans have 21 TDs and 19 FGs (but 3 of those were in OTs, so 16 FGs in regular time.)
    That's a 2 point total in difference for 9 games.

    Yet, the Texans are 6-3 while the Broncos are 3-6.

    The difference is definitely in the Defense.

  15. #1395
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18Broncos View Post
    The most important thing is 23.7 ppg given up.
    That's 16th in the league while this team is built on the D. The money. The draft resource.
    The D has NOT carried it's own weight.

    The Texans are a similar team, built on the D.

    The Broncos have 22 TDs and 13 FGs on offense.
    The Texans have 21 TDs and 19 FGs (but 3 of those were in OTs, so 16 FGs in regular time.)
    That's a 2 point total in difference for 9 games.

    Yet, the Texans are 6-3 while the Broncos are 3-6.

    The difference is definitely in the Defense.
    And the Broncos had faced teams with better point scoring allowed overall than the Texans.

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