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  1. #46
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    As all these crazy idea comes from.. I was listening to 104.3 the fan and they mentioned how there is a good chance Derek Carr isnít with the Raiders next year. Gruden poor relationship with Carr has been well documented. Next year, Carr can be released from his contract without a insanely huge dead cap hit. The pace the Raiders are going, they will most likely be able to pick the QB Gruden wants. May not be a bad thing for Denver especially if we keep Musgrave.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murph2432 View Post
    As all these crazy idea comes from.. I was listening to 104.3 the fan and they mentioned how there is a good chance Derek Carr isn’t with the Raiders next year. Gruden poor relationship with Carr has been well documented. Next year, Carr can be released from his contract without a insanely huge dead cap hit. The pace the Raiders are going, they will most likely be able to pick the QB Gruden wants. May not be a bad thing for Denver especially if we keep Musgrave.
    He seems to have regressed in the past couple of years. Still, I'd rather pay him 25 million per year instead of Keenum. And you're right about Musgrave. Carr had his two best seasons with him.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    He seems to have regressed in the past couple of years. Still, I'd rather pay him 25 million per year instead of Keenum. And you're right about Musgrave. Carr had his two best seasons with him.
    Yelp and I fully expect Denver to free up a lot of cap space next year.
    Currently $33 mill
    Cap increase: + 10 mill
    Rollover( as of now) $4 mill
    DT let go: $14 mill
    Marsh:$5 mill
    If you get Carr, Case is gone freeing $10 mill

    Total: $76 mill

    We do have some other players on our team we need to sign like Paradis but this the cap is def more than enough to get who we need.

  4. #49
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    I am personally not a fan of spending big money on a free agent quarterback, I don't think our team is ready to compete based on the talent we have. Adding a quarterback like Carr, Keenum, Cousins, Stafford, guys who are not elite and can't elevate the play of the average talent around them, I don't think they are worth having around unless the rest of your roster is really strong, and ours is not.
    I don't see the logic in spending such a large portion of the cap on these quality of guys regardless of what the movement on the quarterback market in the NFL is, you don't have to be a part of that.

    I felt it was a mistake to go down this route this past off-season, and I think right now it appears to be the case, Vikings fans do not love Kirk Cousins, and every other free agent quarterback signing has been a disappointment. I would still look for a young quarterback at this point, clean the roster out of the veteran players who are under performing their contracts, and go into a complete rebuild mode with a new coaching staff, and a youth movement on the personnel side. This delusion Elway seems to have regarding this roster being a player or two away is proving incorrect yet again, and we need to take a different approach.

    Hopefully Kelly gets to play this season so we can get a gauge on what he could potentially be, and then approach the draft with an idea of what we need at the quarterback position, or hopefully don't need. If we keep losing as well, we may be in position to grab a top prospect at quarterback come April, not that anyone should trust Elway with selecting a potential franchise quarterback again. And honestly, this class doesn't look to great at this point of the season. To me it looks like a collection of potential backups and middle round guys who will no doubt be pushed up into the 1st round out of demand.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I am personally not a fan of spending big money on a free agent quarterback, I don't think our team is ready to compete based on the talent we have. Adding a quarterback like Carr, Keenum, Cousins, Stafford, guys who are not elite and can't elevate the play of the average talent around them, I don't think they are worth having around unless the rest of your roster is really strong, and ours is not.
    I don't see the logic in spending such a large portion of the cap on these quality of guys regardless of what the movement on the quarterback market in the NFL is, you don't have to be a part of that.

    I felt it was a mistake to go down this route this past off-season, and I think right now it appears to be the case, Vikings fans do not love Kirk Cousins, and every other free agent quarterback signing has been a disappointment. I would still look for a young quarterback at this point, clean the roster out of the veteran players who are under performing their contracts, and go into a complete rebuild mode with a new coaching staff, and a youth movement on the personnel side. This delusion Elway seems to have regarding this roster being a player or two away is proving incorrect yet again, and we need to take a different approach.

    Hopefully Kelly gets to play this season so we can get a gauge on what he could potentially be, and then approach the draft with an idea of what we need at the quarterback position, or hopefully don't need. If we keep losing as well, we may be in position to grab a top prospect at quarterback come April, not that anyone should trust Elway with selecting a potential franchise quarterback again. And honestly, this class doesn't look to great at this point of the season. To me it looks like a collection of potential backups and middle round guys who will no doubt be pushed up into the 1st round out of demand.
    I disagree about Cousins. He's having a fine year. And at least Carr and Stafford have top level talent. Keenum, meanwhile, is simply a physically limited journeyman. I, too, would like to see what Kelly has. However, as Mr. Irrelevant the team has little invested in him. Also, whether it's 2019 or 2020, I would like to see Elway draft a QB high in the first round. Of course, he shouldn't do so willy nilly, but the QB situation needs to be rectified soon.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    I disagree about Cousins. He's having a fine year. And at least Carr and Stafford have top level talent. Keenum, meanwhile, is simply a physically limited journeyman. I, too, would like to see what Kelly has. However, as Mr. Irrelevant the team has little invested in him. Also, whether it's 2019 or 2020, I would like to see Elway draft a QB high in the first round. Of course, he shouldn't do so willy nilly, but the QB situation needs to be rectified soon.
    Agreed on the talent aspect, Keenum obviously isn't in the same class as Carr or Stafford. Cousins is the same guy he has always been in Minnesota though. The narrative that he seems to struggle in the biggest moments, and just doesn't appear to be the guy to put his team on his back continues to be seen. And when your as desperate for a quarterback as we are, when you haven't actually watched the games, and you just look over at the statistics, Cousins is enticing. But Vikings fans are not overly impressed from everything I have been reading, and the 2-2-1 record with a huge loss to the Bills and struggles in the clutch, the narrative has remained the same with him going to a more talented team, which was the one excuse he had in Washington that he no longer can use.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Agreed on the talent aspect, Keenum obviously isn't in the same class as Carr or Stafford. Cousins is the same guy he has always been in Minnesota though. The narrative that he seems to struggle in the biggest moments, and just doesn't appear to be the guy to put his team on his back continues to be seen. And when your as desperate for a quarterback as we are, when you haven't actually watched the games, and you just look over at the statistics, Cousins is enticing. But Vikings fans are not overly impressed from everything I have been reading, and the 2-2-1 record with a huge loss to the Bills and struggles in the clutch, the narrative has remained the same with him going to a more talented team, which was the one excuse he had in Washington that he no longer can use.
    If I were a Vikings fan I'd be much more disappointed with a defense that currently ranks 21st in the league. Last year it was #1.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    If I were a Vikings fan I'd be much more disappointed with a defense that currently ranks 21st in the league. Last year it was #1.
    Agree. But I would imagine when your paying a quarterback what, 25 million dollars a year, to throw the ball 55 times in a game to produce a measly 6 points, against the Bills, that would be a bit of a sore point too.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Agree. But I would imagine when your paying a quarterback what, 25 million dollars a year, to throw the ball 55 times in a game to produce a measly 6 points, against the Bills, that would be a bit of a sore point too.
    Everyone can have a bad game now and then. Cousins recently helped his team put 31 points on the board vs the outstanding Rams. The Vikings also just beat the defending SB champs. Not to mention Minny's run offense is 2nd worst in the league.
    Last edited by gerontion; 10-10-2018 at 09:16 PM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    Everyone can have a bad game now and then. Cousins recently helped his team put 31 points on the board vs the outstanding Rams. The Vikings also just beat the defending SB champs. Not to mention Minny's run offense is 2nd worst in the league.
    The thing is, I know you haven't watch any of these games because the 2 games you just mentioned were classic Kirk Cousins. Against the Rams he had the ball in the clutch at the end of the game but came up short, adding to the narrative that against good teams in the clutch, Kirk Cousins can't get it done, for the 2nd time already this season by the way. And the win against the Eagles a week later he looks great, speaking to the inconsistencies he has always had in his game from week to week, and it was a mediocre win. Have you watched the Eagles this season ? They look bad and in no way look like the team from a year ago, but a good win and great performance none the less by Cousins I will admit.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    The thing is, I know you haven't watch any of these games because the 2 games you just mentioned were classic Kirk Cousins. Against the Rams he had the ball in the clutch at the end of the game but came up short, adding to the narrative that against good teams in the clutch, Kirk Cousins can't get it done, for the 2nd time already this season by the way. And the win against the Eagles a week later he looks great, speaking to the inconsistencies he has always had in his game from week to week, and it was a mediocre win. Have you watched the Eagles this season ? They look bad and in no way look like the team from a year ago, but a good win and great performance none the less by Cousins I will admit.
    Well, the Vikings aren't nearly the team they were last year. A lousy defense and a lousy run game. I don't expect Cousins to carry a team the way Elway used to, but I'd certainly take him over Keenum. The Vikings would be far worse without him, and we'd be far better with him.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    Well, the Vikings aren't nearly the team they were last year. A lousy defense and a lousy run game. I don't expect Cousins to carry a team the way Elway used to, but I'd certainly take him over Keenum. The Vikings would be far worse without him, and we'd be far better with him.
    No doubt, but I'd prefer neither for the money they are making, both are underpeforming, too each their own. The writing was on the wall with Keenum though, another great foresight and move by John Elway. Anyway, back to the topic on hand, can Elway find a young quarterback to build the program around in 2019 ?

    I just realised that Nate Stanley is draft eligible this year, I like him a lot, and he fits the mould of what John Elway likes in a quarterback. Stanley is a pocket passer, is playing in a pro style offense, has a good arm, can move around, and I love how comfortable he looks in the pocket in the face of pressure. He is only in his second season as the starting quarterback, but he has improved his long ball accuracy this season and right now he is my favourite draft eligible quarterback along with Finley.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    No doubt, but I'd prefer neither for the money they are making, both are underpeforming, too each their own. The writing was on the wall with Keenum though, another great foresight and move by John Elway. Anyway, back to the topic on hand, can Elway find a young quarterback to build the program around in 2019 ?

    I just realised that Nate Stanley is draft eligible this year, I like him a lot, and he fits the mould of what John Elway likes in a quarterback. Stanley is a pocket passer, is playing in a pro style offense, has a good arm, can move around, and I love how comfortable he looks in the pocket in the face of pressure. He is only in his second season as the starting quarterback, but he has improved his long ball accuracy this season and right now he is my favourite draft eligible quarterback along with Finley.
    Herbert seems to be generating the most buzz. I've heard him compared to Wentz. A guy I have my eye on is Jarrett Stidham. From what I've read he's got a high football IQ and is a good athlete. Other interesting prospects are Lock and Grier. Truly, though, the one QB I covet most probably won't be available until 2020, and that's Tua Tagovailoa. Trent Dilfer raves about him. Todd Blackledge said his vision for the game reminded him of Drew Brees.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    I disagree about Cousins. He's having a fine year. And at least Carr and Stafford have top level talent. Keenum, meanwhile, is simply a physically limited journeyman. I, too, would like to see what Kelly has. However, as Mr. Irrelevant the team has little invested in him. Also, whether it's 2019 or 2020, I would like to see Elway draft a QB high in the first round. Of course, he shouldn't do so willy nilly, but the QB situation needs to be rectified soon.
    What good is talent, if it doesn't win when it matters most? Between Carr, Stafford, and Cousins, they have 0 playoff wins. Keenum actually has won a playoff game. Hard work beats talent
    Rod Smith for the HOF. TEBOW RULES!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUMCALC View Post
    What good is talent, if it doesn't win when it matters most? Between Carr, Stafford, and Cousins, they have 0 playoff wins. Keenum actually has won a playoff game. Hard work beats talent
    Tim Tebow won a playoff game, too. And he worked harder than anyone else. That didn't change the fact that he was a terrible NFL QB. Case Keenum is what he is, a thoroughly mediocre journeyman.

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