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Thread: We need speed

  1. #16
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    Wasn't Alexander Johnson pretty fast? We just sent jim to the PS or released him I think.

    It seems like fast ILBs in today's NFL is a necessity. I'm not sure our coaching staff thinks that way, though.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houshmazode View Post
    Wasn't Alexander Johnson pretty fast? We just sent jim to the PS or released him I think.

    It seems like fast ILBs in today's NFL is a necessity. I'm not sure our coaching staff thinks that way, though.
    I think it has more to do with John Elway, and the way he values the middle linebacker position. Since he has been here he has shown zero commitment to the position, at least in the early rounds. He drafted Nate Irving in the 3rd round and that didn't work out, and since he has just thrown later round picks at numerous guys seemingly in the hope of finding a long-term starter.

    The one guy he drafted who turned into a great player was Danny Trevathan, and Elway allowed him to walk choosing to re-sign Marshall instead. Elway has also ignored the position in free agency and opted for bringing in ageing guys like Keith Brooking and Paris Lenon, guys who were once great, but weren't any longer when they were brought here.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I don't know if I would double dip at linebacker within the top 120 or so picks. We have holes all along the offensive line, we have no depth at cornerback, quarterback is an issue, and I wouldn't be opposed to moving up to go after Haskins potentially. Inside linebacker is a big need but we have a lot of holes. Also, I will be disappointed if we don't leave the draft with a defensive lineman, this class is deep into the 4th and 5th rounds at that position.
    i kinda depends what happens. i think both williams and baker will be gone by the time we pick. so the 2 CB i feel that could come and instantly contribute as starters will be gone. i feel white will be to. i feel white would be worth trading into the 10-15. he is so fast has good size. he may be the best athlete in the college game. White is list as 6'1 and 240, but probably runs a 4.4 forty, and is explosive and rangy. he is for sure something we are missing. and speed that we haven't had at that position in long time. MAck Wilson is gonna return to school more then likely. if he does next year he is for sure a name to keep an eye on.

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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I think it has more to do with John Elway, and the way he values the middle linebacker position. Since he has been here he has shown zero commitment to the position, at least in the early rounds. He drafted Nate Irving in the 3rd round and that didn't work out, and since he has just thrown later round picks at numerous guys seemingly in the hope of finding a long-term starter.

    The one guy he drafted who turned into a great player was Danny Trevathan, and Elway allowed him to walk choosing to re-sign Marshall instead. Elway has also ignored the position in free agency and opted for bringing in ageing guys like Keith Brooking and Paris Lenon, guys who were once great, but weren't any longer when they were brought here.
    He seems to project what the league was like when he played onto how he approaches certain positions. ILB / MLB seems to be one of the worst positions for it.
    Last edited by Houshmazode; 12-06-2018 at 03:20 AM.

  5. #20
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    Danny pulled up injured on his 40 run at the combine. His official number was much slower than his actual speed. He was a legit 4.5-4.6 guy. Jewell is legitimately slow but has excellent technique. Since we drafted him, I have been pessimistic about his ability to cover a RB or run sideline to sideline. We have seen that with most of our LBs. that being said, I would rather spend our first 5 picks on QB, OL, CB, DT, and WR before I would pick a LB. I would also be happy to double up at OL before a LB. The only way I want a LB would be if a top 10 guy (white, Bush, or Allen) fall to us.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    Danny pulled up injured on his 40 run at the combine. His official number was much slower than his actual speed. He was a legit 4.5-4.6 guy. Jewell is legitimately slow but has excellent technique. Since we drafted him, I have been pessimistic about his ability to cover a RB or run sideline to sideline. We have seen that with most of our LBs. that being said, I would rather spend our first 5 picks on QB, OL, CB, DT, and WR before I would pick a LB. I would also be happy to double up at OL before a LB. The only way I want a LB would be if a top 10 guy (white, Bush, or Allen) fall to us.
    drafting for need never works, you always have to go BPA. i think Devin bush is not a top ten guy he tends to be falling and open late first. and allen seems more like a pass rusher then a ilb.

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    drafting for need never works, you always have to go BPA. i think Devin bush is not a top ten guy he tends to be falling and open late first. and allen seems more like a pass rusher then a ilb.
    Supposedly he has talent, build athleticism to move to the middle. I cant say as i haven't had time to watch film of him. Anyone know much about vosean joseph?
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    drafting for need never works, you always have to go BPA. i think Devin bush is not a top ten guy he tends to be falling and open late first. and allen seems more like a pass rusher then a ilb.
    There is a lot of time between now and the draft and guys will move up and down. Some analysts have Bush as a top 10. I realize that Bush and/or Allen will be OLB. Which goes to your point about BPA.

    While I generally agree in BPA I think you have to evaluate position and needs to some degree. For instance, if the first QB available is someone you like but is rated as the 30th best player, would you ever consider taking a ILB over a QB?

    My point is that I would take a top 5-10 player if they dropped to us (even if it is a LB), but if a ILB, OT, QB, and CB are all in the 15-20 range I would not take the ILB

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    There is a lot of time between now and the draft and guys will move up and down. Some analysts have Bush as a top 10. I realize that Bush and/or Allen will be OLB. Which goes to your point about BPA.

    While I generally agree in BPA I think you have to evaluate position and needs to some degree. For instance, if the first QB available is someone you like but is rated as the 30th best player, would you ever consider taking a ILB over a QB?

    My point is that I would take a top 5-10 player if they dropped to us (even if it is a LB), but if a ILB, OT, QB, and CB are all in the 15-20 range I would not take the ILB
    devin white is legit though. he is a really strong prospect. he is really fast and explosive. he looks like the fast person on the field when you watch lsu games.i think he may be a once in a generation line backer with his speed and size.

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  10. #25
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    Okay Al Davis... speed kills

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    devin white is legit though. he is a really strong prospect. he is really fast and explosive. he looks like the fast person on the field when you watch lsu games.i think he may be a once in a generation line backer with his speed and size.
    I agree with you. I think he looks like a great player. If he was to drop to us I would be happy to pick him, although I doubt he will last.

    I am just not a big fan of investing big at ILB. If we had a top 5 pick I would probably lean towards Herbert, Allen, Jonah Williams, greedy Williams over White primarily because of the importance of the positions. Same reason I wouldn’t draft a RB or TE that early.

    Of course my opinion could easily change after workouts and more reviews. If he is CLEARLY a better prospect I would not hesitate picking him. I am never a fan of passing on a premium player and take someone worse because of need

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houshmazode View Post
    Wasn't Alexander Johnson pretty fast? We just sent jim to the PS or released him I think.

    It seems like fast ILBs in today's NFL is a necessity. I'm not sure our coaching staff thinks that way, though.
    He didn't play football for 3 years. The Broncos gave him a long time to prove he belongs and he could only crack the game day roster once, and that amounted to 13 special teams plays.

    You need to actually be able to play at speed, not to just be fast.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I think it has more to do with John Elway, and the way he values the middle linebacker position. Since he has been here he has shown zero commitment to the position, at least in the early rounds. He drafted Nate Irving in the 3rd round and that didn't work out, and since he has just thrown later round picks at numerous guys seemingly in the hope of finding a long-term starter.

    The one guy he drafted who turned into a great player was Danny Trevathan, and Elway allowed him to walk choosing to re-sign Marshall instead. Elway has also ignored the position in free agency and opted for bringing in ageing guys like Keith Brooking and Paris Lenon, guys who were once great, but weren't any longer when they were brought here.
    I think it had more to do with the coaching staff believing that they could use that roster spot in a better way. Johnson was active for 1 of the first 11 games, and got on the field for 13 special teams plays. It probably has a lot less to do with what Elway values and a lot more to do with a player just not being at a point where he's ready to play in the NFL.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    I agree with you. I think he looks like a great player. If he was to drop to us I would be happy to pick him, although I doubt he will last.

    I am just not a big fan of investing big at ILB. If we had a top 5 pick I would probably lean towards Herbert, Allen, Jonah Williams, greedy Williams over White primarily because of the importance of the positions. Same reason I wouldn’t draft a RB or TE that early.

    Of course my opinion could easily change after workouts and more reviews. If he is CLEARLY a better prospect I would not hesitate picking him. I am never a fan of passing on a premium player and take someone worse because of need
    i am not sure i would have allen as a top ten. i just really like white. and some times ILB have huge impacts on the defense. you can't say they are not overly important. go ask the panther how important keuchley is to them. r the cowboys how important jaylon smith and vander-esche has been to them. they still impact the game alot. expecially ones with good coverage skills and ones with the speed to do anything on the football field. plus you can't argue getting an lber that could cover a guy like kelse would be great for the defense. cause our lbers in coverages vs backs and tight ends is still one of the weakest spot.

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I think it had more to do with the coaching staff believing that they could use that roster spot in a better way. Johnson was active for 1 of the first 11 games, and got on the field for 13 special teams plays. It probably has a lot less to do with what Elway values and a lot more to do with a player just not being at a point where he's ready to play in the NFL.
    My comment was a response to someone saying the coaching staff doesn't really value the position in today's NFL, and I was pointing out the lack of commitment to the position which has existed for years, and how it has extended beyond just this coaching staff. I didn't say a single word about Johnson, I have zero issue with him being cut. But the facts are John Elway has not been committed early in the draft to trying to find a linebacker to play in the middle of the field.

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