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  1. #286
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    If we are gonna draft one we better make sure we trade up high enough to get whomever we want.
    https://forums.denverbroncos.com/sho...-have-a-backup

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chop_Block View Post
    Absolutely correct. I think we are all very sour over the Lynch debacle because it was so glaring, but that mistake is in the past. It's not the last draft mistake we'll make. In the case of QB you HAVE to keep trying until you get it right.

    Cleveland Browns since they came back in the league is a team with historically bad QB play according to most, so lets look at their first round draft picks:
    1. 1999 Tim Couch - #1 overall played pretty well until he hurt his shoulder and then never really came back
    2. 2007 Brady Quinn - drafted at 22 he played quite a few games and several teams tried him as well. He never panned out.
    3. 2012 Brandon Weeden - drafted 22 and he had an arm but never seemed to get it done. He's still in the league as a backup though.
    4. 2014 Johnny Manziel - also drafted at 22. We all know the story. I guess he's playing in Canada now.
    5. 2018 Baker Mayfield - #1 overall and, so far, looks to be a very good selection in a very strong QB draft.

    So, in 19 years the Browns drafted 5 first round QBs and 2 of them were #1 overall. It may be telling that the 2 most successful ones were those #1 overall selections and all the rest were drafted at 22. And, I'd say all 5 of them had some degree of success with the exception of Manziel. This franchise has had ownership changes, chaos at coaching and GMs and presumably a pretty poor scouting dept over those 19 years. And, yet, looking at all that they really haven't done that poorly in selecting QBs. Tim Couch's injury was bad luck and Manziel was, well, a Lynch style foul up, but otherwise they continued to charge ahead trying to get that QB.
    Fortunately for the Browns they didn't let the Manziel experience keep them from drafting (or trading down) Mayfield.

    Tim Couch's career was awful, by any measure. He threw more interceptions (67) than touchdowns (64).

    The Browns' approach shouldn't be used as an example of how to do it.

  3. #288
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    1. Murray
    2. Lock
    3. Haskins

    If one of them are available at 10, I couldnt get to the podium fast enough.

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    So, what's the solution? Roll with Keenum and hope he repeats what he did in Minny? There's Flacco or Foles, but the former seems washed up to me and the latter hasn't done much outside of Philly. Should we just wait for the 2020 crop of QBs like Tua, Fromm, and Herbert? I don't know what the best option is, but I do know that our current QB situation automatically puts us at a disadvantage against the likes of Mahomes and Rivers.
    The Redskins just announced Alex Smith will miss the 2019 season. Elway should trade down for their pick at 15 and ask for their 2nd round pick in 2020. The Broncos will be in a great position to trade up in 2020. Roll with Keenum in 2019 along with drafting Finley, Rypien, Stidham or Jackson in a later round. Keenum starts poorly give the rookie a shot.

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chop_Block View Post
    The 60s called and they want their scouting dept chief back.. Sorry for the sarcasm, but good grief, the QB in today's game is NOT a typical building block. Free agency, better scouting information, and salary cap mgmt have made the QB position sooooo critical, you are unlikely to win without one. You might get lucky in a year and have such a powerful defense you can hold off teams enough to win or build a powerful running game and stay in games for long periods and win your share of games - even make it to the playoffs. But you won't keep that defense together or your RB is going to get injured, etc.. The one constant you can count on and build a team around is the QB.
    The BPA in a position of need isn't bad for all positions EXCEPT the QB. If your scouts don't think our guy is in this years' draft, then fine, draft a position player, but if the QB is there you'd better get him and, if you believe in him, there isn't a cost too high.
    Isn't that EXACTLY what I said in my Post? "Best Player Available at a position of need is the only way to go. That's a proven fact. If it happens to be a QB, then fine. If it's a Defensive player that falls into our lap like last year, then that's the way you go."

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    Isn't that EXACTLY what I said in my Post? "Best Player Available at a position of need is the only way to go. That's a proven fact. If it happens to be a QB, then fine. If it's a Defensive player that falls into our lap like last year, then that's the way you go."
    Sorry, that's not a "proven fact". It's an opinion. "Position of need" is dynamic and can change quickly due to free agency, injury, etc. WR wasn't a "position of need" for us last year with DT and Sanders, but drafting BPA gave us options to trade DT. When Sanders was injured, it became of good thing we drafted BPAs in Sutton and Hamilton.

    It also takes 50-60% of players in the draft off the board.

    IMO, draft the best players available, as you can always trade talented, good players and use FA and trades to fill positions of need.

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    "Best Player Available at a position of need is the only way to go. That's a proven fact. If it happens to be a QB, then fine. If it's a Defensive player that falls into our lap like last year, then that's the way you go."
    Yeah, NO! Broncos need a QB. With the Redskins also needing a QB, if we don't trade up to gets ours first, we may end up with our 3rd losing season in a row. And if that happens, 2020s free agency and players looking to be traded is gonna be a who's who of Broncos players.

  8. #293
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    20 million plus a year for a Flacco / Foles or take a chance on a high draft pick.

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoBreeder View Post
    20 million plus a year for a Flacco / Foles or take a chance on a high draft pick.
    No Flacco.. He is done. Trade up for the #1 pick overall.

  10. #295
    broncolee is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoBreeder View Post
    20 million plus a year for a Flacco / Foles or take a chance on a high draft pick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    No Flacco.. He is done. Trade up for the #1 pick overall.
    Flacco might be able to do something with Sutton and Sanders to throw the ball to.

    Keep the running game going and play solid defense, he might be the best way to go.

    I would stay away from Foles though. I would be too afraid that Philly is the only place where he can be good.
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I won’t Back Down.

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Yeah, NO! Broncos need a QB. With the Redskins also needing a QB, if we don't trade up to gets ours first, we may end up with our 3rd losing season in a row. And if that happens, 2020s free agency and players looking to be traded is gonna be a who's who of Broncos players.
    What makes you think it wouldn’t still be a third losing season with a rookie QB?

    The Browns got a stud and still had a losing season. Though that’s probably due to waiting too long to fire hue.

    I would say a rookie is almost a gauranteed losing season due to growing pains.

    The argument probably makes more sense to say draft a qb so we avoid 4-5 straight losing seasons.

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socnorb11 View Post
    Tim Couch's career was awful, by any measure. He threw more interceptions (67) than touchdowns (64).

    The Browns' approach shouldn't be used as an example of how to do it.
    So, a guy put into an expansion team with that weight on him to start day 1, and then he gets injured and his throwing motion is never the same again and you are critical of his TD to Int ratio? Pretty harsh.
    Guess how many TD and interception our John Elway threw his first year or two and he didn't get injured. Peyton Manning started out similar.
    Tim Couch could of had a nice career if he had not gotten hurt.

    And as far as the Browns, I think they did alright in drafting Baker Mayfield. Past mistakes do not lock you into a poor future.
    Last edited by Chop_Block; 01-28-2019 at 07:48 AM.

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWHIT97 View Post
    1. Murray
    2. Lock
    3. Haskins

    If one of them are available at 10, I couldnt get to the podium fast enough.
    If any of them are available at 10 then maybe our scouts weren't very accurate. We may have some luck this year because many of those teams picking ahead of us don't need a qb and other who do, might wait till 7 or 8 to grab their guy.

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Yeah, NO! Broncos need a QB. With the Redskins also needing a QB, if we don't trade up to gets ours first, we may end up with our 3rd losing season in a row. And if that happens, 2020s free agency and players looking to be traded is gonna be a who's who of Broncos players.
    That's not a "fact", its the draft. Good grief, do you think there are teams out there trying to NOT draft the best players they can get? Yes, and generally, they slant their board to those positions of need. So if they already have a stud center they might lean toward a LB or a guard. All of that is the way they ALL draft except when you're talking about a franchise QB there isn't any comparable BPA that can beat them out - in other words, the franchise QB is ALWAYS the BPA.
    Bradley Chubb could exceed the career of Von and he still would have been a poor draft choice as compared to Rosen or Allen if they develop as expected. I think they wimped out, but I have to believe Elway did not think Rosen and Allen were going to develop into great QBs. Further, I have to believe he felt he had a better option coming up. It doesn't seem that better option was Case, so we'll see what he does this year and next. If, by the start of the 2020 season we don't have that QB of the future on the team I will be sorely disappointed. A serendipitous opportunity like getting Peyton Manning is not likely to happen again and we have a much better chance of moving up in the draft to get a QB ala the way we got Elway.

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chop_Block View Post
    If any of them are available at 10 then maybe our scouts weren't very accurate. We may have some luck this year because many of those teams picking ahead of us don't need a qb and other who do, might wait till 7 or 8 to grab their guy.
    Not necessarily true. There are a lot of teams without a need for QB in the top 10. If someone isn't willing to trade up, it doesn't necessarily mean that the player isn't worth a top 10 pick. The asking price just might be too much for them.

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