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  1. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Jarrett Stidham has the potential. He was ascending as a potential 1sf round pick after the 2017 season. He took a step back in 2018 with issues surrounding play calling control between the OC and HC. There will be a team that sees his value, probably by the 3rd round.
    Noooo. Iím an Auburn fan. Stay away from Stidham at all cost.

    He was decently accurate in 2017 but in 2018 he couldnít hit a wide open receiver downfield if the defense wasnít on the field. I couldnít tell you how many times guys were 10+ yards wide open and he would over throw them. I donít know what happened but he lost all confidence.

    Plus he hates getting hit more than anyone Iíve ever seen. Tons of games he will start well and once he takes that first sack he gets massively skidish and gets happy feet all over the pocket. Even when there is no pressure.

    I canít imagine how scared he would play behind our oline.

  2. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Noooo. Iím an Auburn fan. Stay away from Stidham at all cost.

    He was decently accurate in 2017 but in 2018 he couldnít hit a wide open receiver downfield if the defense wasnít on the field. I couldnít tell you how many times guys were 10+ yards wide open and he would over throw them. I donít know what happened but he lost all confidence.

    Plus he hates getting hit more than anyone Iíve ever seen. Tons of games he will start well and once he takes that first sack he gets massively skidish and gets happy feet all over the pocket. Even when there is no pressure.

    I canít imagine how scared he would play behind our oline.
    Decently accurate is understating 66.5% completion rate in 2017. Saying he couldnít hit a wide open receiver is patently false. Iíve watched a lot of his tape and that statement is pure hyperbole. At 60.7% completion rate in 2018 there was a regression in accuracy. Even last season he made some very good throws. Did he miss some, sure.

    In 2018 Auburn did not have a dominant running back. The line lacked the ability to consistently protect Stidham. Not having consistent protection led to dropping his eyes taking focus off receivers. That will be an area he needs to work on. There were questions about control of play calling between Lindsey and Malzahn. They werenít able to replicate the mix of the two offensive schemes like they did in 2017.

    There is a lot of value in drafting a guy like Stidham in a later round.

  3. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    At least that washed up SB MVP can get the the ball to his receivers on time when he sees them open. A huge problem for Keenum is that he free receiver he throws to is covered by the time the ball gets there. The week 3 battle this year was not stellar QB performance on either side, but Denver would definitely have won if we had swapped QBs


    Defenses cannot stack the box with Joe Flacco unless they have two elite cover corners, and Joe can easily be the difference between a 6 win and a 10 win season, and he still has the quality required to go all the way
    statistically, he has performed the same as Keenum over the last two years. And the Flacco that won a SB MVP award was over 5 years ago. That's not relevant for a QB who has had injuries every single year since 2015. His ACL and MCL tear, shoulder injuries, and hip problems that got him benched in 2018 along with a poor offensive line lead me to believe that he won't be worth the 18 million we paid.
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  4. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    statistically, he has performed the same as Keenum over the last two years. And the Flacco that won a SB MVP award was over 5 years ago. That's not relevant for a QB who has had injuries every single year since 2015. His ACL and MCL tear, shoulder injuries, and hip problems that got him benched in 2018 along with a poor offensive line lead me to believe that he won't be worth the 18 million we paid.
    When we see comments about Flacco playing behind a poor line and without talented receivers, doesnít that sound familiar? If the Broncos improve the line via free agency/draft
    and with Munchakís coaching, maybe that will help. Until we actually see the improvement itís a question. Sanders may not be back and if he returns will he be the same? If not that leaves Sutton and Hamilton. The Broncos still donít have a viable TE (Flacco had solid TEs over the years). Maybe the Broncos will get more weapons for Flacco. Most importantly Flacco will need to be healthy and the odds of that happening are lower based on injury history. Iím not opposed to the signing - despite the stats I think he has better playmaking potential than Keenum. Hopefully Elway will draft a quarterback this year or next. Despite the usual growing pains with a young quarterback, at some point the Broncos need to more than a bridge veteran.

  5. #470
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    Chad Kelly physically had what it took to be a franchise QB. I'd find someone like him but with his head screwed on right.

  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    statistically, he has performed the same as Keenum over the last two years. And the Flacco that won a SB MVP award was over 5 years ago. That's not relevant for a QB who has had injuries every single year since 2015. His ACL and MCL tear, shoulder injuries, and hip problems that got him benched in 2018 along with a poor offensive line lead me to believe that he won't be worth the 18 million we paid.
    As with any other QB you have to ask what accounts for the differences year to year. If we just take recent Broncos history at QB, both Siemian and Osweiler looked promising with Kubiak coaching the team, and and inept with Vance Josephs crew. The only season since he was paid top dollar and the Ravens defense fell off where Flacco looked great was 2014 under Kubiak.
    Keenum did great with the Vikings - why was he a dud with Vance Joseph?

    We see this time after time, that coaching matters.

    What I see is in Flacco a QB that has physical tools that are better than the QB's that have won the last 5 SBs, and has shown that he does well when the lights shine brightest. To some extent I hope that Keenum stays our backup if the money pan out, because that would give a lot more brain power in the QB room than having some scrub.

  7. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    statistically, he has performed the same as Keenum over the last two years. And the Flacco that won a SB MVP award was over 5 years ago. That's not relevant for a QB who has had injuries every single year since 2015. His ACL and MCL tear, shoulder injuries, and hip problems that got him benched in 2018 along with a poor offensive line lead me to believe that he won't be worth the 18 million we paid.
    Even if Keenum and Flacco are similar middling QB's of average talent. There's one very big reason that in our system Flacco is an improvement over Keenum.

    Even when Keenum was at his best with Minnesota, he had zero deep ball. Last year, towards the end of the year, it was obvious that teams recognized that and absolutely didn't respect his ability to go deep. This led to stacked boxes and our running game tapered off a lot down the stretch.

    Even when Keenum is playing well by Keenum standards, if you take the run game away and put the ball in his hands, we lose the game. We saw it all year last year, when Keenum's pass total went over a specific number, we lost.

    Flacco has a strong arm and can with velocity lob it down the field. This forces teams to respect our ability to make plays deep and will limit the number of stacked boxes Lindsay, Freeman and Booker will face. This will lead to a stronger run game in 2019 and will limit how heavily we'll have to lean on Flacco.

    Even if they are statistically similar, Flacco's deep ball is what puts him head and shoulders above Keenum and makes him a better fit in Denver.

    That doesn't mean that Flacco's the answer at QB or that he needs to stick around for long, but that is why he's an improvement until Elway can find something better.


  8. #473
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    The thing I'm not on board with is the 18 million required to get a stronger arm. I don't think we have the O-line to protect a non-mobile QB, nor do we have the receivers that make the greatest use of his arm. For an injury-prone QB to be behind a line that's going to get even weaker without Paradis, I don't have high hopes. Yes we can make cap space, but without Flacco we would have 18 million more than we would without going through the hoops of having him here.

    Now from what I understand, this was Scangarello and Fangio's decision. They must believe that the West coast offense they are going to be employ will not be readily absorbed by a rookie QB and need a vet to run it properly. If that's the case, then okay, I understand. From what I've seen though, is that we are repeating the same exact steps that haven't worked before in signing a vet. I believe we need to draft a franchise QB, and soon.

    If Flacco isn't the answer at franchise QB, then why is he here? It's just wasting time in my opinion.
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  9. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Even if Keenum and Flacco are similar middling QB's of average talent. There's one very big reason that in our system Flacco is an improvement over Keenum.

    Even when Keenum was at his best with Minnesota, he had zero deep ball. Last year, towards the end of the year, it was obvious that teams recognized that and absolutely didn't respect his ability to go deep. This led to stacked boxes and our running game tapered off a lot down the stretch.

    Even when Keenum is playing well by Keenum standards, if you take the run game away and put the ball in his hands, we lose the game. We saw it all year last year, when Keenum's pass total went over a specific number, we lost.

    Flacco has a strong arm and can with velocity lob it down the field. This forces teams to respect our ability to make plays deep and will limit the number of stacked boxes Lindsay, Freeman and Booker will face. This will lead to a stronger run game in 2019 and will limit how heavily we'll have to lean on Flacco.

    Even if they are statistically similar, Flacco's deep ball is what puts him head and shoulders above Keenum and makes him a better fit in Denver.

    That doesn't mean that Flacco's the answer at QB or that he needs to stick around for long, but that is why he's an improvement until Elway can find something better.
    Agreed, well said. That is why Lock is the pick @ 10 { if he's there } and he sits the bench for a year, possibly 2 until he reads defenses better and develops better feet. The end.

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Even if Keenum and Flacco are similar middling QB's of average talent. There's one very big reason that in our system Flacco is an improvement over Keenum.

    Even when Keenum was at his best with Minnesota, he had zero deep ball. Last year, towards the end of the year, it was obvious that teams recognized that and absolutely didn't respect his ability to go deep. This led to stacked boxes and our running game tapered off a lot down the stretch.

    Even when Keenum is playing well by Keenum standards, if you take the run game away and put the ball in his hands, we lose the game. We saw it all year last year, when Keenum's pass total went over a specific number, we lost.

    Flacco has a strong arm and can with velocity lob it down the field. This forces teams to respect our ability to make plays deep and will limit the number of stacked boxes Lindsay, Freeman and Booker will face. This will lead to a stronger run game in 2019 and will limit how heavily we'll have to lean on Flacco.

    Even if they are statistically similar, Flacco's deep ball is what puts him head and shoulders above Keenum and makes him a better fit in Denver.

    That doesn't mean that Flacco's the answer at QB or that he needs to stick around for long, but that is why he's an improvement until Elway can find something better.
    Flacco is not a good deep ball guy, at least not at this stage in his career. This is a common misconception by those who haven't really watched him.

    This year he completed 45/118(40%) passes with 5 TDs and 5ints on throws over 10 yards in his 9 games. On throws over 20 yards he was 9/39(23%) with 2TDs and 3INTs

    Compare to Keenum who was 74/145(51%) with 9Tds and 9INTs on throws of over 10 yards. Over 20 yards he was 17/52(32%) with 3TDs and 5INTs.

    On a per game basis, they're completing a deep pass over 20 yards about once a game each, but Keenum is throwing less incompletions to do so.
    Last edited by Papa-pwn; 02-18-2019 at 08:55 AM.

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    As with any other QB you have to ask what accounts for the differences year to year. If we just take recent Broncos history at QB, both Siemian and Osweiler looked promising with Kubiak coaching the team, and and inept with Vance Josephs crew. The only season since he was paid top dollar and the Ravens defense fell off where Flacco looked great was 2014 under Kubiak.
    Keenum did great with the Vikings - why was he a dud with Vance Joseph?

    We see this time after time, that coaching matters.

    What I see is in Flacco a QB that has physical tools that are better than the QB's that have won the last 5 SBs, and has shown that he does well when the lights shine brightest. To some extent I hope that Keenum stays our backup if the money pan out, because that would give a lot more brain power in the QB room than having some scrub.
    Did you see any of this two weeks ago? If not, what changed - Flacco wearing blue and orange?
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  12. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    Did you see any of this two weeks ago? If not, what changed - Flacco wearing blue and orange?
    Asian you and I usually don't agree. But I agree with 100%. Two weeks ago i feel most of if not all would have not been on board with this. All the qbs that have discussed Joe name i can't remember being brought up. Now a lot seem to be a fan of joe. Sorry I'm not on this hype train. I wouldn't have him in the top 20 or 25 qbs.

    He had a good run when he won the sb. But has not done anything since imo.

  13. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    The thing I'm not on board with is the 18 million required to get a stronger arm.
    $18 millon ain't what it used to be in the NFL. People get really hung up on what Manning made in his time with us and compare Keenum and Flacco's money to that...it's not the same. The NFL has changed contract wise since then. When Manning was here, top dollar was $18M. now it's $33.

    As of right now, Flacco is the 23rd highest QB at at $18M. We aren't talking as large of a portion of the cap as it once was. Flacco's contract accounts for about 9% of the cap. That's not a large percent for a QB. When manning was making that in 2012, he accounted for about 14% of our cap.

    The main thing we need to do is get Keenum off our books.

    Also for your last statement of why are we here? Look at recent history. Teams sign a QB to money to be their guy and draft their future every year. Most years the guy they signed to the big contract doesn't even play a snap and the rookie is there and ready. It's not uncommon. The nice thing we have going for us is if that happens here, we have the option of cutting Flacco without a cap hit.


  14. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeeter01 View Post
    Agreed, well said. That is why Lock is the pick @ 10 { if he's there } and he sits the bench for a year, possibly 2 until he reads defenses better and develops better feet. The end.
    Lock and Flacco are also similar styled QBs. We can run the same offense with both and that will mean when Lock is ready, he can just step into the existing scheme with very few changes needed.


  15. #480
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    You dont have to throw the deep ball 10 times a game . To have a Qb that can will make the defense think a little bit. We constantly had defenses stack the box daring us to throw . Keenum holds on to the ball longer then Flacco. For one our WR s are way better then Balt has had . Flacco is just here for the time being until Lock is ready to take over ......its just business.

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