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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerontion View Post
    Has intentionally tanking ever really worked? I can think of one time where it did when the Pittburgh Penguins tanked it up to get Mario Lemieux.
    I dont know if they intentionally tanked but Colts "sucked for Luck"


    Andy Jano 2017 adopted Bronco

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    I dont know if they intentionally tanked but Colts "sucked for Luck"
    They had a pretty good excuse with Manning missing the whole year, though.

  3. #33
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    Teams don't tank, that is such a myth. Players are playing for future contracts and incentives. Indy were just terrible that year and were left with Curtis Painter.

  4. #34
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    If Lawrence enters the draft in '21, we better not be in good shape to land him, other than we made a really sweet deal.....





    while winning The SB!!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Teams don't tank, that is such a myth. Players are playing for future contracts and incentives. Indy were just terrible that year and were left with Curtis Painter.
    Players dont lose on purpose but coaches do.....Raiders???? Trade away all the star power you have so losing comes easy. Players will still fight but if you take away talent there's not much they can do


    Andy Jano 2017 adopted Bronco

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I just don't see it with Tua. I don't think he reads the field/defense well, and relies on his playmakers abilities and his own to stay out of trouble from it. When I see him play I see Matt Leinart. That's not meant as an insult in that Leinart was a great NCAA QB and could have been a much better NFL QB with work ethic. What I mean is that I see a good QB, but not necessarily a great one, and I don't think he's worth a top pick.
    he is still just scratching the surface of what he can be though i feel. his high school was not a football school. and he didn't play against top talent. he didn't have alot of people to practice alot of his practice in high school came from throwing to his dad. and his coaching for a QB was very little in high school. his talent is really good. i can see the mental game, but his upside is crazy.

    i still expect Justin Fields to take the country by storm at Ohio State sounds like a match made in heaven for this kid

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    Players dont lose on purpose but coaches do.....Raiders???? Trade away all the star power you have so losing comes easy. Players will still fight but if you take away talent there's not much they can do
    Yes, that's a form of losing for a purpose.....lowering your level of play in the short term for long term gain. It's also when teams start playing backups more, so that their starters can rest and heal, It's the "experience" thing.


  8. #38
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    He can't be drafted until 2021. Emperor Palpatine (otherwise known as Bill Bellichick) probably already has a plan to make sure he snags number 1 in that draft. He probably has dirt on 3/4 of the GM's in the league and plans on using it to put New England drafting first that year.
    All it takes to win is doing whatever it takes to win: COMMITMENT

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    Players dont lose on purpose but coaches do.....Raiders???? Trade away all the star power you have so losing comes easy. Players will still fight but if you take away talent there's not much they can do
    Nah not buying it. The teams picking at 1, 3, and 5 all got rid of their coaches. SF at 2 played hard all year, you could see how much it meant to the players and the coaches when they played us, and Seattle, near the end of the season to get 2 wins which cost them the top pick. They were just a re-building team who lost their QB early in the season.

    In the Raiders case Gruden was locked in to be the HC next season at least, but they easily could of had the overall #1 pick but went all out to beat Pittsburgh and us late in the season, you could see how happy Gruden was and late season wins can carry momentum into next season.

    There is also no slam dunk number 1 pick this year.

    Some people like to have crazy theories because they find it interesting, when in reality it just doesn't happen.

  10. #40
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    At the rate this franchise is going, maybe we will be in a spot to draft him in 3 years, if you catch my drift..... sadly...

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggs4 View Post
    At the rate this franchise is going, maybe we will be in a spot to draft him in 3 years, if you catch my drift..... sadly...
    Nope, I dont catch your drift. Elway wont stop trying to build just to have a small....minute chance at a QB that may or may not be there for him


    Andy Jano 2017 adopted Bronco

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Nah not buying it. The teams picking at 1, 3, and 5 all got rid of their coaches. SF at 2 played hard all year, you could see how much it meant to the players and the coaches when they played us, and Seattle, near the end of the season to get 2 wins which cost them the top pick. They were just a re-building team who lost their QB early in the season.

    In the Raiders case Gruden was locked in to be the HC next season at least, but they easily could of had the overall #1 pick but went all out to beat Pittsburgh and us late in the season, you could see how happy Gruden was and late season wins can carry momentum into next season.

    There is also no slam dunk number 1 pick this year.

    Some people like to have crazy theories because they find it interesting, when in reality it just doesn't happen
    .
    I really don't think "crazy theories" is fair. Many times I've heard of teams purposely making moves to have a shot at a top tier draft pick. Maybe not just in football. I guarantee it has been done, sometimes perfectly! If you can get your fans to buy into a rebuild, and go with exciting youth, you can not only win over your fanbase but end up with a star or two in the draft, to accelerate the process.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I really don't think "crazy theories" is fair. Many times I've heard of teams purposely making moves to have a shot at a top tier draft pick. Maybe not just in football. I guarantee it has been done, sometimes perfectly! If you can get your fans to buy into a rebuild, and go with exciting youth, you can not only win over your fanbase but end up with a star or two in the draft, to accelerate the process.
    I've just never seen evidence of it Coaches and gm's hurt their reputation and job security when losing games, and players don't care who a team drafts in the off-season. They go all out to win as they have contract incentives and want job security for the future.

    Some people were saying this season that the Raiders were tanking to get the number 1 pick....... then they go all out to beat Pittsburgh and then us near the end of the season, and watching Gruden running around fist pumping afterwards showed how much it meant to them.

    The only 'evidence' people like to point to is the Colts, but they didn't tank. They played hard in their games but were not very good. PM often carried that team then they would get beat by a better NE or Pittsburgh team in the playoffs. You take out PM and throw in Curtis Painter who was awful and they were by far the worst team that year.

    People can believe what they want, and I don't follow other American sports so can't comment on them but in the NFL there is no shred of evidence that any team has ever tanked.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    I've just never seen evidence of it Coaches and gm's hurt their reputation and job security when losing games, and players don't care who a team drafts in the off-season. They go all out to win as they have contract incentives and want job security for the future.

    Some people were saying this season that the Raiders were tanking to get the number 1 pick....... then they go all out to beat Pittsburgh and then us near the end of the season, and watching Gruden running around fist pumping afterwards showed how much it meant to them.

    The only 'evidence' people like to point to is the Colts, but they didn't tank. They played hard in their games but were not very good. PM often carried that team then they would get beat by a better NE or Pittsburgh team in the playoffs. You take out PM and throw in Curtis Painter who was awful and they were by far the worst team that year.

    People can believe what they want, and I don't follow other American sports so can't comment on them but in the NFL there is no shred of evidence that any team has ever tanked.
    But I don't think that JvD and I are stating that teams have tanked, rather have played out the scenario that could lead to a very high draft pick. I will use the example of hockey. The Toronto Maple Leafs did not go out to lose, but a few years ago they took on a new strategy....to rebuild, reset management and so on. They went younger. They made moves to acquire draft picks. They essentially "helped" their chances by reseting the cast. They seemed to have gotten buy in from their fans, because their fans wanted change. And they also knew that 2 great players were set to be drafted - Austin Mathews and Patrick Laine.

    I would never call it a "tank", but by going with a more youthful movement, and finishing low, they ended up with the #1 pick - Mathews, a great young center, and further developed themselves into a fast up and coming team. They were lucky to land him, because The NHL have a draft lottery, but in any event, the strategy worked beautifully in my opinion, because they did not really turn off the fans while losing. Instead they made the changes necessary, got the fanbase interested, and then made all sorts of positive moves to upgrade the team. It was not just because of the high draft pick, but that definitely made for an even sweeter turnaround, because Mathews will be a leader and star for many, many years.

    Sure, luck involved....but good strategy. Gruden might have employed some of what can be considered similar maneuvers....to move out key players that would ensure loads of draft capital, while proving to the fanbase that hope was not too far away. Now, they did stink more than many would have liked, but it is sort of like tanking while rebuilding.....all towards a better long term situation.
    Last edited by CanDB; 01-09-2019 at 03:10 PM.

  15. #45
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    I wouldn't be surprised if a team with a high pick gets tapped on the shoulder to accept a trade to move back, and they ask for your 2021 1st round pick instead of the 2020 1st round pick. This way, if they want to tank next year they can continue to ask for 2021 picks it they really want Trevor Lawrence and when 2021 comes around, that team could easily offer many 1st round picks collected from the previous years to offer the #1 pick. Sounds extreme, but some team may be thinking that far ahead.
    BCMB Div 1 - Rollin' with Mahomies

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