Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6
Results 76 to 82 of 82
  1. #76
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Probably Here
    Posts
    521
    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    No no. Again!

    Kubiak is a massive asset for Fangio!

    Fangio is a DC that like Wade had been elite for decades, yet still did not get a HC opportunity, and for all we know might not be HC material on the offensive side of the ball. What it all boils down to is NOT Elway or any other pie in the sky.

    It boils down to who has the "big boy pants". Kubiak is a tremendous OC and he has a knowledge about the players that Fangio has no chance of having. If we speculate that Fox after he needed surgery had stepped down as HC and it was McDaniels that had come in with his football brilliance and issues in other areas as a 75% HC, it would probably have been a massive success!

    This is NOT about Elway but about Fangio and Kubiak!

    If it works it will be the best of two worlds, and if Fangio fails Elway will be right that he is the last HC that Elway is likely to hire.
    I'll give you that sometimes the craziest situations have a funny way of working out. Fangio/Kubiak has some old school appeal because both coaches have been around a long time and are respected. But acknowledge that this is crazy. Fangio was given authority over half the team. It's not like he's going to be able to fire Kubiak halfway through the season if the offense is pathetic (again). Fangio is in the position of a glorified defensive coordinator. Elway is the head coach in terms of coaching management. That's bad and crazy and puts us up there with Jones/Dallas and Davis/Raiders. It's not a healthy situation.

    I'm not saying that Vance Joseph was a good coach because he wasn't, but Elway hamstrung him too and meddled there too and created a situation where Joseph didn't have the respect of his coordinators (McCoy) and assistants (because these were Elway guys and not Joseph guys). I'm sure that didn't help the new head coach. Now two years later here we go again with Elway pulling the same old slop.

    Plus, I think Kubiak was a good OC but what can you point to lately that would argue this point? He's been involved with the team last year, to the point that Musgrave called him "very involved" with the offense. Check this out:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/milehig...s-offense/amp/

    How did that work out? Some of last year's ineptitude falls at Kubiak's feet. Before that the last time we saw his offense is when he forced his system into an aging Peyton Manning and, while the defense carried them, the offense was inept and the following year it was even more so.

    Plus Keenum seems like a bust but Keenum is Kubiak's guy. Kubiak signed him originally out of college, Kubiak tried to trade for him when he was with the Rams, and it's not a secret that Kubiak was a major reason they went that direction in free agency last year as a bug in Elway's ear. So this seems to fall on his shoulders.

    All of this is a fairly uninspiring body of work as of late. Why would you have any confidence in a Kubiak run offense? Did we suddenly get a quarterback? This is 2016 offense all over again, Kubiak is rigidly fixed to his system, and we have a Siemien like quarterback. Why would it be different?

    Does anyone really think this is about Kubiak's offensive coordinator skills? Bunk. I think this is about Elway feeling like he needs Kubiak for his draft skills but realizing if he didn't get him coaching Kubiak was going to be lured elsewhere. Throw in a heavy dose of nepotism and this is what you have. And admittedly, Kubiak seems to have hit one out of the park with last year's draft. But to promise him OC based on this is nutters, he's done nothing in this area as of late to warrant this.

    I'll grant you that Elway went out and got one heck of a defensive coordinator (which might get us back the lost ground when he stupidly let Wade Phillips walk), but he major failed to evolve or change the offensive side of the ball which has been our Achilles heel for years now.

    Elway is going to live or die in the proverbial sense (I think the latter) with his friend, buddy system and draft security blanket by his side. He came in to the league with Kubiak and he's going to go out with him, which is great for their friendship but bad for the team and organization.
    Maybe we should resign Rahim Moore so he could finally get the chance to knock down a Joe Flacco pass?

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Probably Here
    Posts
    521
    Not to burst my own bubble, but I will admit, after watching that press conference, seeing the way Vic is, damn, it's hard not to be a little excited...
    Maybe we should resign Rahim Moore so he could finally get the chance to knock down a Joe Flacco pass?

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Roskilde, Denmark
    Posts
    2,731
    Quote Originally Posted by Humberg View Post
    ....

    I'm not saying that Vance Joseph was a good coach because he wasn't, but Elway hamstrung him too and meddled there too and created a situation where Joseph didn't have the respect of his coordinators (McCoy) and assistants (because these were Elway guys and not Joseph guys). I'm sure that didn't help the new head coach. Now two years later here we go again with Elway pulling the same old slop.

    Plus, I think Kubiak was a good OC but what can you point to lately that would argue this point? He's been involved with the team last year, to the point that Musgrave called him "very involved" with the offense. Check this out:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/milehig...s-offense/amp/

    How did that work out? Some of last year's ineptitude falls at Kubiak's feet. Before that the last time we saw his offense is when he forced his system into an aging Peyton Manning and, while the defense carried them, the offense was inept and the following year it was even more so.
    Kubiak

    I'm sorry but your "proof" that Kubiak was very involved is an article from 6th september about Musgrave and Kubiak sitting down in the morning and talking about offensive strategies!
    Going back to 2015.................... Which HC that Manning has had throughout his carrer do you actually think could have won the SB with Manning in the physical condition he was in? Do you actually think that the Manning that doing the same thing Manning had done for his whole career with limited post season success and a body that gave up on him would have led to a better result than in 16 of his 17 seasons?
    There is absolutely no way that we would have succeeded with Manning's inability to make even short throws into coverage unless we focussed on the run.

    This was Sage Rosenfels take on this before the SB - https://www.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/02/n...peyton-manning
    One can only speculate what Kubes might have gotten out of Jay Cutler or Tim Tebow by simplifying and speeding up their play.


    VJ/McCoy

    VJ seemed like he had no place being a HC. He seemed lost out there so wiping lack of respect of on organisational things is a bit misplaced. The Broncos community was split on McCoy, with the basic takes McCoy was brilliant and the reason for the success with the lousy bible fanatic, and others that saw Tebow more as the motor and McCoy as the anchor. Elway did seem to favor the narrative that the coaches that produced a win rate of 20% with Orton were the ones that should be credited with the 63% with Tebow.

    VJ had plenty of time to show that he was a competent HC, and there does not seem to really be anything out there that would indicate that! It is not Elway's, Kubiak's, McCoy's or Musgrave's fault that VJ was lost. Elway should be blamed for hiring him, but not for VJ not being up to making the right decisions at game speed.


    I'm sorry but your attacks on Elway and more are misplaced!

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,453
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    Well...to be fair the candidates they chose were chosen in part because of their willingness to accept Kubiak as an assistant or coordinator.
    I believe that might be true but as the OP has stated (and while I don't agree with all of it I do agree with some of it) that there is a major issue with the HC having forced upon him coaches of the FO's choosing. For example - I look back to when VJ came here. Joe Woods, at least from my perspective, seemed to have Joe Woods forced on him.

    I pose this question. What if the FO's chosen coaches are the ones pooping the bed? Does the HC have the ability to kick 'em out the door? Will we as fans get told who the FO is forcing on the HC vs not? Or what if Kubiak is brought in as the OC and he is incapable of elevating the offensive play? Will our FO allow the HC to fire him like we did McCoy mid-season?

    My biggest gripe with Kubiak's offense is that so much of the system he ran in 2015 and 2016 appeared to require near perfection at nearly every position. Certain run plays required near perfect blocking and if that didn't happen then you needed a RB to shake off 2-3 tacklers in the backfield to have any form of success.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,453
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    He thought Cleveland was the perfect opportunity, and the Front Office is full of guys that have worked with him before. He overplayed his hand.

    He's not a good coach, that's why he's not being fought over the way I'm sure he thought he would be. The Super Bowl is nice, but he's had the best QB for years and they've done nothing with it. Add in that when that QB hasn't played they haven't even looked competent. Whenever he gets hired, he will be fired 2 years later.
    When a team spends top dollar on A.Rodgers like he demands then it is VERY difficult to field a competent backup. The Packers seem to look at each group and they set max $$ for those players. To me that make zero sense. What is also unfair is that McCarthy had ZERO say of who was on the roster.

    Now - all of that said. I agree. McCarthy is really not that good of a HC. Winning that SB is great. That said he seemingly has not motivated that team in years. He also should have been able to put his team in better positions to win overall.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Probably Here
    Posts
    521
    Wow, Kubiak out. I guess my rant was proven wrong. I...I don't even know what to say... My god, it's full of stars...

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Not where I want to be.
    Posts
    7,416
    Humberg: I'll grant you that Elway went out and got one heck of a defensive coordinator (which might get us back the lost ground when he stupidly let Wade Phillips walk), but he major failed to evolve or change the offensive side of the ball which has been our Achilles heel for years now.
    Yon hit the nail on the head right there.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •