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  1. #1
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    Overrated “Franchise QBs”

    Over the last few weeks I have seen us linked with some so called “Face of the franchise” guys who are on these horrendous contracts and I take comfort in the fact that the stories turned out to be garbage as even the ones who would be an upgrade on Case just scare the bejesus out of me at the thought of taking them on and convinces me more by the day that even if we need to wait until next year’s draft,we absolutely have to get it right for once when it comes to picking a QB.
    I’ll be honest,I’d still rather see Teddy as our starter for a year or two but let’s look at the names we’ve been linked with if you believe the stories.
    Winston-Chad Kelly-like worrisome who was drafted high and has done nothing.
    Stafford-The absolute epitome of “Face of the franchise” on a monstrous deal who,even with an excellent target or two,sums up the Lions as a franchise.
    Carr-I know this is admittedly seen as unlikely even with the alleged possibility,but this is a guy who threw the ball like it was burning his hand yet still hit the bullseye on a regular basis.Even allowing for an injury that was far from career-threatening he gets a record breaking deal and turns into his brother.
    Tannehill-Do I even need to explain this one?
    Cousins-Even with Keenum getting back to his normal self I’m still glad we never mortgaged the future on him.Nothing short of an MVP and/or a SB will convince me that he is no more than a slightly better than average but well below elite player.
    Sadly,there’s no Peyton type who would be worth spending half our cap space on (and I want Rodgers for the money Cousins is getting) so the next QB we draft will be the most important in a generation so #7 cannot miss.
    The only good thing about Keenum is we are not on the hook for another four years but these QB deals are going to kill a few teams over the next few years.
    Like I say,take Teddy for two or three years on money we can afford and get that damn draft right next year for one (Please God!) damn time.
    But as much of a mess as we are in,we aren’t in waist deep with a highly overrated “Face of the franchise”
    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    I don't understand how Ryan Tannehill, with 123 TD, 75 INT [1.64 ratio] and 87.0 passer rating, is considered overrated, described as "do I even need to explain this one?", yet the proposed solution is to get Teddy Bridgewater, with 29 TD, 23 INT [1.26 ratio] and 85.9 passer rating. I think Bridgewater is very similar to Case Keenum, a QB with a weak arm and underwhelming production.

    Instead of going after this type of QB again, I'd rather keep the one we already have and then find a proper QB talent in the draft. The jump from Trevor Siemian to Case Keenum was minimal, if there was one at all, and I see Bridgewater basically in the same category. We need to make a considerable jump in QB production, we need to find a true franchise QB and I think this is done through the draft.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    I don't understand how Ryan Tannehill, with 123 TD, 75 INT [1.64 ratio] and 87.0 passer rating, is considered overrated, described as "do I even need to explain this one?", yet the proposed solution is to get Teddy Bridgewater, with 29 TD, 23 INT [1.26 ratio] and 85.9 passer rating. I think Bridgewater is very similar to Case Keenum, a QB with a weak arm and underwhelming production.

    Instead of going after this type of QB again, I'd rather keep the one we already have and then find a proper QB talent in the draft. The jump from Trevor Siemian to Case Keenum was minimal, if there was one at all, and I see Bridgewater basically in the same category. We need to make a considerable jump in QB production, we need to find a true franchise QB and I think this is done through the draft.
    I just think we’re looking at a year or two with an average QB.Im just thinking that if Teddy can stay fit,he can be a better bridge than Case.
    Tannehill would be more expensive and I get what you mean about Teddy not being a huge upgrade.
    I’d just rather have him who knows he can’t demand a long deal than a Tannehill who is good on his (admittedly not exactly regular) day but would be looking for more money and without a good OL,sometimes looks like a pick machine.
    Someone will pay Tannehill.I just wouldn’t like it to be us and I don’t see him taking a one or two year deal.
    It’s more a financial issue.

  4. #4
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    Teddy isn’t anywhere. He signed a team friendly extension with the Saints last year.

  5. #5
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    The first step is how to unload Keenum. It does not look like Elway will simply cut Keenum and deal with the cap hit, at least no one in the media has indicated it yet. Who would trade for Keenum? I can only think of one team, and it's a wild imagination.

    If the Giants are ready to move on from Eli Manning and make a move for a QB in the draft, perhaps trading up to #1 or #2 overall, they could see Keenum as a better bridge QB. Keenum had success with Pat Shurmur in 2017 and will understand the role better than Eli Manning, who's been a starter and franchise QB his entire career.

    However, Keenum and Manning have similar salary-cap values, so the Giants would not even be saving a good amount of money. I don't even know what would be the cap hit if the Giants release Manning - can they find a trade partner for him? Maybe we are stuck with Keenum for one more season, and my hope is that we get a rookie QB that will see the field early.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    Teddy isn’t anywhere. He signed a team friendly extension with the Saints last year.
    Isn’t he a FA after the season though?
    The favourable part is that he hasn’t come out of the season looking worth a big,expensive deal.
    I think he’s on $6m and I think he hits the market on pretty much the same terms and form/fitness as last off-season.
    If I’m wrong i’ll be happy for you to correct me because I’m only going on memory here.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    The first step is how to unload Keenum. It does not look like Elway will simply cut Keenum and deal with the cap hit, at least no one in the media has indicated it yet. Who would trade for Keenum? I can only think of one team, and it's a wild imagination.

    If the Giants are ready to move on from Eli Manning and make a move for a QB in the draft, perhaps trading up to #1 or #2 overall, they could see Keenum as a better bridge QB. Keenum had success with Pat Shurmur in 2017 and will understand the role better than Eli Manning, who's been a starter and franchise QB his entire career.

    However, Keenum and Manning have similar salary-cap values, so the Giants would not even be saving a good amount of money. I don't even know what would be the cap hit if the Giants release Manning - can they find a trade partner for him? Maybe we are stuck with Keenum for one more season, and my hope is that we get a rookie QB that will see the field early.


    I'm hoping whomever we draft at QB shows enough in training camp and preseason that we just roll with him.

    The rookie growing pains will be a lot more tolerable than being stuck with another intolerable season of the Keenum pains.


    Special thanks to Sam_Z for the SB rings collage above

  8. #8
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    You didn’t even mention the one face of the franchise QB that is being mentioned/ speculated by a few local talk show has hosts....Flacco.

    Somehow the announcement of Kubiak as OC and the seemingly desire to “win now” and add Flacco’s rumored availablity has them connecting dots I am hoping are not there.

    Honestly have no idea what this Kubiak decision means. I am not really enthusiastic with any of the old franchise QBs that may somehow might be available. Any of the Keenum or similar mediocre QB options even less.

    And even if they draft a young QB would they choose the “right” one or be willing to run an offense that suits him.

    Going to interesting to see how this QB fiasco gets resolved.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    You didn’t even mention the one face of the franchise QB that is being mentioned/ speculated by a few local talk show has hosts....Flacco.

    Somehow the announcement of Kubiak as OC and the seemingly desire to “win now” and add Flacco’s rumored availablity has them connecting dots I am hoping are not there.

    Honestly have no idea what this Kubiak decision means. I am not really enthusiastic with any of the old franchise QBs that may somehow might be available. Any of the Keenum or similar mediocre QB options even less.

    And even if they draft a young QB would they choose the “right” one or be willing to run an offense that suits him.

    Going to interesting to see how this QB fiasco gets resolved.
    I think that your last comment is very true. There seems to be far more Spread/RPO type QB's comming out of college than traditional NFL drop back pocket passers. Installing a system that fits there strengths instead of trying to make them something that they're not is the key

  10. #10
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    I would roll with Flacco if Keenum was my only other choice

  11. #11
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    Vic Fangio is coming from a franchise that hired a college coach to serve as OC - Mark Helfrich, who coordinated the offense for Colorado and Oregon. HC Matt Nagy designed the playbook and calls the plays, but he's certainly getting some ideas from Helfrich and came from Kansas City, where Andy Reid was already using these college concepts.

    One of my concerns with Gary Kubiak is his old-school offense with difficult verbiage, full-field reads and the timing of plays based on the QB's footwork. It's going to be a tough transition for most of the QBs coming out of college nowadays. Kubiak did not adapt for Paxton Lynch when we should have used a simplified, RPO offense for that type of QB.

    Kubiak's offense fits the QBs that are already on the roster, including Kevin Hogan and Garrett Grayson.
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  12. #12
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    Kubiak has to adapt and change somewhat. That is if they draft a QB of course. My concern is they are “ fine” with what they have.

    Food for thought... Would the Broncos draft a talent like Mahommes? More importantly would they create a situation for him to succeed or bench him for Keenum or Hogan be because he “ struggles in Kubiak’s” offense?

  13. #13
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    I think we’re stuck with Keenum for another year while a draft QB develops. At 10, we are not getting QB1 or 2. None of the bridge QBs available are enough of an upgrade to warrant eating Keenum’s cap hit AND paying another QB.

    We’re firmly in the QB vortex of mediocrity - not bad enough to get top draft picks and not good enough to make the playoffs. Since we’re looking at a developmental QB prospect anyway, I’d actually like to see us draft a top rated DT to instantly improve the pass rush and run defense, then trade back into the end of the first for QB. QBs 3-5 are a tossup IMHO. If we came out of this offseason with competent coaching, an impact player, and a young QB to develop, that would be a success.

  14. #14
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    We need better receivers.. teams in postseason have one thing in common.. a marquee runner and stout o line .. plus name brand receivers who are money on third downs..

    Just having franchise QB’s is meaningless.. ask Rodgers, Stafford, Cousin, Carr, Cam etc. who’ll be watching postseason action from home.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Kubiak has to adapt and change somewhat. That is if they draft a QB of course. My concern is they are “ fine” with what they have.

    Food for thought... Would the Broncos draft a talent like Mahommes? More importantly would they create a situation for him to succeed or bench him for Keenum or Hogan be because he “ struggles in Kubiak’s” offense?
    Mahommes? Mahommes threw for over 5000 yards, 50 TDs, and had a QB Rating of 114. There are no talents anywhere in College Football, or in the Pros for that matter, that we will get our hands on that compare to Mahommes. So, we don't need to worry, because the Broncos aren't going to Draft a talent like Mahommes. Probably, ............ ever. And to the people expressing the delusional pipe-dreams (not you, as I respect your Posts and opinions), Philly isn't trading Wentz to us, and Cleveland isn't trading Mayfield to us.So, we don't have to worry about the Broncos Drafting a great QB, like Mahommes, who will then be relegated to the bench because Kubiak "won't play a young QB", or "can't adapt" to coaching a young QB.

    Did Kubiak fail to "adapt" to the likes of Paxton Lynch? Judging by the fact that Lynch is out of football, I would be hard-pressed to create a scenario where his poor play had anything to do with Kubiak's adaptability.

    If we cut Keenum, he counts as $10 million against the Cap, either before or after June 1. If we trade Keenum, we take a $3 million dollar hit. So, we are likely stuck with him.

    The Broncos only shot at an upgrade is if we trade Keenum, and convince a "Foles" or a "Flacco" to come to Denver. JMHO.

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