Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 61
  1. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Socal
    Posts
    707
    Quote Originally Posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    It seems fairly obvious a lot of people on this board want Elway gone, or blame him for the abject failure of the football team the last 2 if not 3 seasons. So the question then becomes, would you give up the 2015 Banner for having made the playoffs the last 3 years? That's the trade. We get everything that comes with John Elway, and one of those things is a Super Bowl victory. Just wondering.
    Is this a trick question?

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    303
    Posts
    871
    When we got punched in the mouth by a Seattle's defense in the Superbowl. Elway said I want that. Came back in Sb50 killed it with the defense. I think Elway is doing great for the short time as GM. Possible off year. I grew up watching him every Sunday so I might be a little bias.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    It seems fairly obvious a lot of people on this board want Elway gone, or blame him for the abject failure of the football team the last 2 if not 3 seasons. So the question then becomes, would you give up the 2015 Banner for having made the playoffs the last 3 years? That's the trade. We get everything that comes with John Elway, and one of those things is a Super Bowl victory. Just wondering.
    There have been a lot of issues since that SB and many to blame, but we have it on the books as a SBC. One of the most amazing defenses in history, PM's final game, and watching Cam getting utterly beat down and abused. Clean up the mess we have in spots and let's get back as soon as we can. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    OKC
    Posts
    2,531
    Quote Originally Posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    It seems fairly obvious a lot of people on this board want Elway gone, or blame him for the abject failure of the football team the last 2 if not 3 seasons. So the question then becomes, would you give up the 2015 Banner for having made the playoffs the last 3 years? That's the trade. We get everything that comes with John Elway, and one of those things is a Super Bowl victory. Just wondering.
    I seriously DO think that the Elway haters WOULD! Really they are what have you done for me lately bandwagonnfairweather fans. Would not have three rings, maybe not even MADE all those Superbowls without Elway. Who really cares what they think? Just shows their true colors that's all.
    oh YEAH?

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by Axemaster View Post
    I seriously DO think that the Elway haters WOULD! Really they are what have you done for me lately bandwagonnfairweather fans. Would not have three rings, maybe not even MADE all those Superbowls without Elway. Who really cares what they think? Just shows their true colors that's all.
    They're just opinions, probably out of frustration that we all shared at times. Hopefully everyone gets back on the right track now.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Way far away.
    Posts
    1,036
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    Don't take this personally, but responses to threads can have many depths of responses instead of a 100% in agreement posts or a complete 180 in 'fire Elway now!' conversations - that's how a mature discussion takes place. We don't have to agree on everything, it's more important that those who respond to your thread have the ability to express their full opinion.

    1. I've never said anything about Elway needing to be fired. A rational thought would say that his past successes has given him the next few years to rebuild/retool the team, which obviously has been given to him. But that is very different than to say that Elway can do no wrong, and that he is completely removed from why this team is failing. You say we have to have an unemotional evaluation to the situation - I agree. I believe it does indeed take a critical mind to see why this team is in the state it's in - not what has happened in 2015. You want a topic that is very clearly directed at posters who want successes now, when really what we want this franchise to look like now has nothing to do with 2015's SB win. The key to success is to never settle, and I believe many posters have when they clutch the 2015 SB win as the only important part of this franchise.

    2. Once again, I'm not saying Elway needs to be fired. I'm saying his drafts have been questionable. One good draft doesn't make up for the 9 others that have net only a handful of players. The math adds up in that you can't rely on one single rookie class to carry a team - that's how you go 6-10. You are severely mistaking critique as a 'bash sequence,' when really that's the nature of it. You have to do better than one good draft class out of the better part of a decade in order to have sustained success. I certainly hope he can do it again, because we'll need it desperately in our division.

    3. I don't think I was being disingenuous at all. You simply are thinking I'm referring to head coaching candidates, when I'm not. I'm thinking of the Mike McCoy, Vance Joseph, Rick Dennison, Joe Woods, Brock Olivos, Bill Musgraves, and so on and so forth. Vance Joseph being a poor coach was the result of having poor coordinators underneath him, both on offense and on defense. With this year especially suspect, it seems that coordinators are more of Elways preference than it is the head coaches. And once again, this is an observation that these choices have not worked out.

    4. Ask the posters on here. Is Elway on the hot seat? Some will flag you and neg you for even suggesting it. It's not a mystery that Elway is the Duke of Denver and treated with almost a god-like presence by the posters here. The reality is that he can make mistakes, and that's okay to bring up. As Elway himself said in the post season presser "I’m just like everybody else and I have been my whole life, you put me on a pedestal. My mindset has always been the same in the fact that I’m only as good as the people around me and people that I hire and that work together and try to get the best solution for problems that we do have."

    5. That's the point, is that maybe Shanahan shouldn't have had ten years? Maybe it wouldn't have taken a pro-bowl HOF QB to come here to turn it around if we had moved on earlier. That's part of critical thinking instead of having a binary view. If you want a topic that wants a black and white response of "I want winning years over SB wins" that don't address the deeper reasons to them, then make a poll. You say that Shanahan is a terrible comparison - well so is putting posters in a position where you praise Elway for a SB win vs being a whinging brat for wanting winning seasons.

    Short of all that, if you don't like my responses, there's a block feature. Use it if you want.
    I don't mind your responses. You took your response to my thread as your opportunity to call out, for lack of a better word, Elway fanboys. Nothing about my thread or my question suggested I'm an Elway fanboy. Now you can say you weren't suggesting that about me, that it was directed at others on this board, but you didn't put those comments in other's threads, you put them in mine. He absolutely is human and he absolutely makes mistakes. I'm saying, again, that I would argue for having him as our head guy at this very moment versus not having him at this very moment. AGAIN, if you aren't advocating he be fired immediately, you shouldn't have any issue with the original post. If you didn't like the binary nature of the original post, you could have ignored it. If you felt another question was more relevant or pertinent, you could have started your own thread and asked it.

    People can respond any way they want. But curiously, I wonder why you would respond to a thread asking a simple question with comments about people's love of Elway and whatever else you wrote. I, personally, make it a habit to try to keep my responses to someone's thread specific to whatever they've stated. The more I see your posts around the board the more it seems you like to hijack posts and use them as talking points for things that have little to nothing to do with what the original intent of the thread was.

    Shanahan shouldn't have been given 10 years. But I didn't make the comparison, you did. And yes, 1 draft doesn't make up for numerous bad drafts (it wasn't 9 though, he's only been drafting for the Broncos since 2011, so that would be 7 bad, 1 good). But he got the last one right. You can't say past success on the field isn't as important as current failures then turn around and say current success drafting isn't as important as past failures. You can't have it both ways. Let's see how the next one goes.

    But again, I keep coming back to wondering what the point of your original response was, especially if you aren't advocating Elway being fired. I didn't ask any questions about if he should be given more time, I didn't ask if he should be on the hot seat, and I didn't suggest anything one way or the other about either of those things. I simply asked if you would trade three winning seasons for the Super Bowl. Somehow you decided that meant something about my position on Elway???? Beats me. And if you AREN'T advocating for Elway to be fired, you can really sum up your criticism with 5 words. He needs to do better. How man times, in how many ways, and in how many threads have you made some assertion that he's failing at his job? Is that really something you have to state over and over again if you aren't actually hoping for his removal? Anyway, Go Broncos!
    Last edited by Letswinplz77; 01-10-2019 at 09:02 PM.
    All it takes to win is doing whatever it takes to win: COMMITMENT

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Dinner Table, Hungry
    Posts
    2,324
    I came here to say, "no."

    But since everyone beat me to it... I came here to say...

    Well, hey guys.... Think about it! WINNING seasons would feel good again, wouldn't it? Maybe we even sweep da raiduhs

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    9,204
    Quote Originally Posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    I don't mind your responses. You took your response to my thread as your opportunity to call out, for lack of a better word, Elway fanboys. Nothing about my thread or my question suggested I'm an Elway fanboy. Now you can say you weren't suggesting that about me, that it was directed at others on this board, but you didn't put those comments in other's threads, you put them in mine. He absolutely is human and he absolutely makes mistakes. I'm saying, again, that I would argue for having him as our head guy at this very moment versus not having him at this very moment. AGAIN, if you aren't advocating he be fired immediately, you shouldn't have any issue with the original post. If you didn't like the binary nature of the original post, you could have ignored it. If you felt another question was more relevant or pertinent, you could have started your own thread and asked it.

    People can respond any way they want. But curiously, I wonder why you would respond to a thread asking a simple question with comments about people's love of Elway and whatever else you wrote. I, personally, make it a habit to try to keep my responses to someone's thread specific to whatever they've stated. The more I see your posts around the board the more it seems you like to hijack posts and use them as talking points for things that have little to nothing to do with what the original intent of the thread was.

    Shanahan shouldn't have been given 10 years. But I didn't make the comparison, you did. And yes, 1 draft doesn't make up for numerous bad drafts (it wasn't 9 though, he's only been drafting for the Broncos since 2011, so that would be 7 bad, 1 good). But he got the last one right. You can't say past success on the field isn't as important as current failures then turn around and say current success drafting isn't as important as past failures. You can't have it both ways. Let's see how the next one goes.

    But again, I keep coming back to wondering what the point of your original response was, especially if you aren't advocating Elway being fired. I didn't ask any questions about if he should be given more time, I didn't ask if he should be on the hot seat, and I didn't suggest anything one way or the other about either of those things. I simply asked if you would trade three winning seasons for the Super Bowl. Somehow you decided that meant something about my position on Elway???? Beats me. And if you AREN'T advocating for Elway to be fired, you can really sum up your criticism with 5 words. He needs to do better. How man times, in how many ways, and in how many threads have you made some assertion that he's failing at his job? Is that really something you have to state over and over again if you aren't actually hoping for his removal? Anyway, Go Broncos!
    When you make a thread about saying people want to fire Elway, and that if we would rather have the SB50 win vs 3 winning seasons, it's a post that's intended to target those who want current success as not being satisfied about the SB50 win, when that's disingenuous over what most fans want - both. It's incredibly naive to think that posting a thread that says "Pick either a SB win or three winning seasons" isn't going to draw controversy or posters that don't appreciate what is implied. You're not going to get these trite canned responses that it seems only you want in your thread. That's how you get responses like this

    This is a pointless thread reaching extreme folly.

    The average human being should be able to separate that 2015 season from what has transpired in 2016-2018.
    or a lot of posts with a simple 'No, SB50 was great.' Great, quality topic if that's all you wanted...


    Like I said, if you feel my posts are hijacking the original post, then you can block them or not read them. I haven't ever received feedback accusing me of this, nor have any of my comments ever been moderated for being off topic, so I don't know what else to tell you. I'm not going to change the way I post, it's my belief that I put a lot of thought and research into my posts, so that it covers multiple areas to give it depth. If you don't feel that way, that's ok.

    I can absolutely say that bad drafting affects this future more than past successes do. How many players on the SB50 team are still here? In what way does the SB50 make this team competitive today? Now the question can be turned towards the draft. How does the 6 years of bad drafting affect the team today? Do you really believe that drafting Paxton Lynch hasn't affected this team? It wouldn't be accurate to say that it has no affect on this team - it does.

    And I'll say this to make it clear - I'll even make it bold so you won't get confused, because really this is all you want me to say: He needs to get better, or else he will be gone. In three years if we don't make the playoffs, I don't see a contract renewal for him, and that will be it. I would fully support that decision to move onto a new GM, regardless of the past successes. Hope that response satisfies you.
    Last edited by TheAsianPA; 01-10-2019 at 10:09 PM.
    Superbowl 50 Champions!

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Way far away.
    Posts
    1,036
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    When you make a thread about saying people want to fire Elway, and that if we would rather have the SB50 win vs 3 winning seasons, it's a post that's intended to target those who want current success as not being satisfied about the SB50 win, when that's disingenuous over what most fans want - both. It's incredibly naive to think that posting a thread that says "Pick either a SB win or three winning seasons" isn't going to draw controversy or posters that don't appreciate what is implied. You're not going to get these trite canned responses that it seems only you want in your thread. That's how you get responses like this



    or a lot of posts with a simple 'No, SB50 was great.' Great, quality topic if that's all you wanted...


    Like I said, if you feel my posts are hijacking the original post, then you can block them or not read them. I haven't ever received feedback accusing me of this, nor have any of my comments ever been moderated for being off topic, so I don't know what else to tell you. I'm not going to change the way I post, it's my belief that I put a lot of thought and research into my posts, so that it covers multiple areas to give it depth. If you don't feel that way, that's ok.

    I can absolutely say that bad drafting affects this future more than past successes do. How many players on the SB50 team are still here? In what way does the SB50 make this team competitive today? Now the question can be turned towards the draft. How does the 6 years of bad drafting affect the team today? Do you really believe that drafting Paxton Lynch hasn't affected this team? It wouldn't be accurate to say that it has no affect on this team - it does.

    And I'll say this to make it clear - I'll even make it bold so you won't get confused, because really this is all you want me to say: He needs to get better, or else he will be gone. In three years if we don't make the playoffs, I don't see a contract renewal for him, and that will be it. I would fully support that decision to move onto a new GM, regardless of the past successes. Hope that response satisfies you.

    Well, at it again. I don't need you, no one does really, to tell me what I need to ask or how what I did ask is wrong, or any guidance at all really on how or what to post. I appreciate your condescension, but rest assured I won't be confused by anything you say. You want to beat a dead horse about Elway needing to get better, feel free to post it anywhere you want. I'm not worried about how you view yourself, or your posts, I wasn't asking for concurrence, merely making an observation. I have no intention of blocking anyone, everyone is allowed to be wrong, misguided, even nonsensical if they so choose.

    You keep making a bad drafting argument that isn't being argued. He had less bad drafts than you suggested because I think you just picked a number that looked bad, or you can't count, or you didn't bother to count. But regardless, the LAST draft was a success, as far as can be told from such a short distance removed. So now we wait to see if he can do it again. But, if you feel the need, you can point out the previous bad drafts, again, just to get the point across. They still exist in the good/bad tally for his evaluation, I'm not suggesting they don't, but AGAIN, his last one was pretty good. It feels like I'm trapped in a circle.

    "When you make a thread about saying people want to fire Elway, and that if we would rather have the SB50 win vs 3 winning seasons, it's a post that's intended to target those who want current success as not being satisfied about the SB50 win, when that's disingenuous over what most fans want - both." This is, quite literally, nonsense. YOU are going to tell ME what I intended? Well I guess that means I should just ask you what to post next. Most fans want both? Really? Most fans want past success AND present success? It's super helpful that you pointed this out, as I might not have caught it. Obviously I know most fans want constant success. The point of the question was to........I guess I could just let you tell everyone, but selfishly I think I'll do it myself.......the point of the question was to illuminate what doesn't appear to be so obvious to everyone; sometimes, achieving the ultimate success creates unsustainable circumstances. Such as, that Super Bowl winning team had too many overachieving players (strictly speaking in contract terms) to keep them all. Losing Trevathan and Jackson was costly. The retirement of Ware was costly. Not hitting on a new franchise quarterback since the loss of Manning has been costly. Had we gone a different route than Manning and Ware and Ward and Talib and Sanders, we probably could have continued to win between 9 and 11 games and year and been relevant but not dominant. Might that have altered our 2016, '17, and '18 seasons? Probably. But it would also have PROBABLY kept us from winning the Super Bowl in 2015.

    Anyway, I look forward to being enlightened by whatever else it is you think I'm not capable of understanding or just don't know yet.
    All it takes to win is doing whatever it takes to win: COMMITMENT

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    9,204
    Quote Originally Posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    Well, at it again. I don't need you, no one does really, to tell me what I need to ask or how what I did ask is wrong, or any guidance at all really on how or what to post. I appreciate your condescension, but rest assured I won't be confused by anything you say. You want to beat a dead horse about Elway needing to get better, feel free to post it anywhere you want. I'm not worried about how you view yourself, or your posts, I wasn't asking for concurrence, merely making an observation. I have no intention of blocking anyone, everyone is allowed to be wrong, misguided, even nonsensical if they so choose.

    You keep making a bad drafting argument that isn't being argued. He had less bad drafts than you suggested because I think you just picked a number that looked bad, or you can't count, or you didn't bother to count. But regardless, the LAST draft was a success, as far as can be told from such a short distance removed. So now we wait to see if he can do it again. But, if you feel the need, you can point out the previous bad drafts, again, just to get the point across. They still exist in the good/bad tally for his evaluation, I'm not suggesting they don't, but AGAIN, his last one was pretty good. It feels like I'm trapped in a circle.

    "When you make a thread about saying people want to fire Elway, and that if we would rather have the SB50 win vs 3 winning seasons, it's a post that's intended to target those who want current success as not being satisfied about the SB50 win, when that's disingenuous over what most fans want - both." This is, quite literally, nonsense. YOU are going to tell ME what I intended? Well I guess that means I should just ask you what to post next. Most fans want both? Really? Most fans want past success AND present success? It's super helpful that you pointed this out, as I might not have caught it. Obviously I know most fans want constant success. The point of the question was to........I guess I could just let you tell everyone, but selfishly I think I'll do it myself.......the point of the question was to illuminate what doesn't appear to be so obvious to everyone; sometimes, achieving the ultimate success creates unsustainable circumstances. Such as, that Super Bowl winning team had too many overachieving players (strictly speaking in contract terms) to keep them all. Losing Trevathan and Jackson was costly. The retirement of Ware was costly. Not hitting on a new franchise quarterback since the loss of Manning has been costly. Had we gone a different route than Manning and Ware and Ward and Talib and Sanders, we probably could have continued to win between 9 and 11 games and year and been relevant but not dominant. Might that have altered our 2016, '17, and '18 seasons? Probably. But it would also have PROBABLY kept us from winning the Super Bowl in 2015.

    Anyway, I look forward to being enlightened by whatever else it is you think I'm not capable of understanding or just don't know yet.
    Lol ok - this is going nowhere. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    I have No Idea, Do You?
    Posts
    4,865
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
    Fans and players don't realistically assess a team's chances of winning the Super Bowl. It's more a case of wishful thinking.

    He didn't put the "playoff contender" qualifier in his post, though, implying that it was valid for any team. If you assume he meant playoff contender, then yes, anything short of winning the Lombardi is a failure.
    Show me a team thats happy or satisfied with just having a winning record for the season and i will show you a team that wont be winning any World Championships any time soon.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    47
    " Would you trade Super Bowl 50 victory for winning seasons in '16, '17 and '18?"

    A: No. A losing season is forgotten by the next season, if not by draft day. (Unless you are the pathetic Raiders and that losing season goes on for 20 years) . Whereas a Superbowl win is always remembered. They do not do replays on the NFL network of losing seasons, but they replay the Superbowl's. Joe Namath won a Superbowl and not much else, and is championed for it. Dan Marino was one of the bests QB's ever, but never won a Superbowl, and he never gets as much attention as Joe does in tributes to the past. Pretty much the fate that awaits Philip Rivers if he does not make and win the Superbowl this year.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,581
    Quote Originally Posted by theshiverman View Post
    Show me a team thats happy or satisfied with just having a winning record for the season and i will show you a team that wont be winning any World Championships any time soon.
    You're changing the wording of the question to something that wasn't asked and that I wasn't responding to. The question was is a team a failure if it doesn't win the Super Bowl. I said it's not a failure if a previously losing team makes significant progress towards that goal. That is NOT the same thing as saying one should be satisfied with not winning it.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Anywhere I want on 18 wheels
    Posts
    8,285
    Of course no one is giving up a Super Bowl victory for 2 winning seasons or 3 playoff appearances.

    That doesnít excuse Elway from any blame for the past two seasons.

    Itís not all on Vance Joseph.
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I wonít Back Down.
    No Matter How Stupid Your Comments Are!
    Still Not Backing Down!!!

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Grew up in Aurora! live in Bothell, Wa.
    Posts
    2,279
    Not in a million years, 50 was so fun to watch, its the best part of being a Bronco fan besides the cheerleaders that is.


    GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •